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RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:31:14 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Ok, its worth pushing this implied analogy between the use of safewords and eating at McDonalds.   Not only do I use safewords, but I eat at McDonalds,  AND  I only order from the value menu.  When I'm thinking about dating someone, I always make sure they eat from the value menu too, negotiating this point early on. It would be unethical to get involved with someone with a fundamentally different restraunt philosophy.  Its bound to lead to power struggles later on.

So, why do I eat at McDonalds?  Because, its fast, its cheap, I can eat it there or take it with me. Because I don't have to tip some waiter, sniff the wine cork or kiss the matre'd's butt to get a good table.  Because its there when I need it and I don't have to plan in advance and make a reservation.  Because there's one on every corner and every interstate exit.  Because no matter where I am in the contiguous 48, I'm pretty sure that the McDonalds I'm at is pretty much the same as the last, and when I'm in the middle of nowhere, its late, and I'm pretty tired, I don't want any surprises.

I have nothing against cooking.  I know how to cook.  Mostly I cook from scratch, and prefer my cooking to anyone's elses.  But, there are times when cooking doesn't work for me.  I don't feel like it.  I don't have the energy.  I don't have anything but a can of tuna fish and a bottle of olive oil in the house.  And the only money I have is the change I can find under the couch cushions which is usually enough to buy a double cheeseburger off the value menu at McDonalds but not enough to even get a cup of coffee at a fancy restraunt.  In those moments of need, doing without McDondalds is not an option.  And, when I'm that needy, I'm damn grateful that the value menu is there and Ray Kroc becomes a god to me.

Its pretty much the same with safe words.  The analogy works. :)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 5:34:43 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline 		~~ general reply to everyone ~~
quote:

By coming here and calling anyone who uses a safeword inauthentic you make yourself look like some ren-faire freake who waltzes into a university history department and announces to the faculty that they don't REALLY understand history because they aren't wearing merkins and misusing obsolete syntax
First, please point out where I said that anyone who uses a safeword to be inauthentic? Please make note of my opening statements:
quote:

Before I start, I want to state that this is in no way a bash against the use of safe-words during a scene. I understand the need for others to use them within their relationships.

AND
quote:

I don't use, and have never used safe words in my relationships; this does not mean however that I do not encourage others to use them if they feel they are necessary to maintaining safety.

Please note the highlighted sections.
 
I stand by my OPINION AND BELIEF that there is no substitute for KNOWING the person you are playing with; whether it be a top or bottom.
 
And yes, when someone new asks me about safewords, my response to them is ALWAYS the same:
 
"Safewords are only as good as the intent behind the top. There is no substitute for knowing the person that you are about to engage with. This goes to private play, as well as public play. "
 
If believing this makes me a superior person, then for the love of God, I am proud to be so.
 
quote:

I wanted to thank you for showing that just because people do things differently than others tha does not make what they share "less".

I will state the same thing that has been stated already. With the exception of a few 'drive-by" posters, WHERE has anyone stated or inferred that just because they use safewords, it makes them less?
quote:

Isn't that exactly the tone that Noah is complaining of -- that those who advocate using a safe word are somehow inferior?

No. That was a direct jibe at me. Not a very good one, but one none the less.
 
quote:

In almost every other situation I can conceive of, the ability to put a stop to something at will is more than sufficient to prevent "damage".

Really? And what do you tell the bottom, who believed that a 'safe-word" is the end to end all? Especially after she played with a top who could care less about what damage he/she inflicted, as long as the scene went on?
 
That is what I was trying to say. That for a person who chooses SO poorly; does not take the proper time to get to know the person they are playing with...they have a 50/50 chance of getting one who does not care one way or another.
 
I am going to use daddysprop as an example ( I hope she forgives me for this ). Imagine this is a new person, who has been told by everyone IN THE SCENE for many years that as long as she insists on safe-words...nothing bad can happen.
 
 



_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 6:03:05 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

At great risk of being redundant, I'm hoping you'll (Merc) take the time to engage me directly in a discussion on the topic.  Here's my earlier post, which would make a good starting point.

John,
Using my favorite trite attorney interjection during depositions; "asked and answered". However, if there is anything in particular that I've said, or you fell I've alluded to that is not clear, feel free to ask directly on the profile side.

If you chose to go that route this is the disclaimer that usually comes with the response; "The views and opinions expresses are dogma for 'Merc & beth' and not to be construed as 'lifestyle' dogma in any form or fashion. Any feeling of personal attack, validation, hope, hopelessness, or invalidation, perceived by the blunt, sarcastic, pragmatic, stupid, smart, insightful, bazaar, brutal, honest, irrelevant response comes from your perspective not ours. If you don't believe that this is how we live and act let us know when you are in the neighborhood, and we'll be happy to meet you in person and, if we enjoy your company, you'll be welcomed into the hospitality of our home." That goes for Jay Wiseman too.


Well, I know it was asked (twice) since I was the one that did the asking.  I didn't see where you had replied to me (though you did reply to others). 
 
Of course, I do respect your decision to choose with whom you wish to engage in discussion.  Perhaps some others are more fulfilling for you.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 6:42:21 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

" Hey,  Fucking Stop! I just ..... (broke my hip, crossed my threshhold, had a heart attack., etc....)
 


Technically, this would be a string of morphemes combined into a specific collection of phonemes which would be considered by anybody listening to the exchange to be...

(pause for emphasis, drum roll)

Safe words.

Thank you for proving our argument that having safe words are a good thing for people in the lifestyle to have to protect the people involved.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 6:56:10 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

" Hey,  Fucking Stop! I just ..... (broke my hip, crossed my threshhold, had a heart attack., etc....)
 


Technically, this would be a string of morphemes combined into a specific collection of phonemes which would be considered by anybody listening to the exchange to be...

(pause for emphasis, drum roll)

Safe words.

Thank you for proving our argument that having safe words are a good thing for people in the lifestyle to have to protect the people involved.

Sinergy


Actually....if you go back and look, you will find that there are very few people who resist open and forthright communication. The stance that most of us who are "anti safeword" have taken all along is against pre-scripted code words being touted as if they have some kind of magical power vs. clear and concise communication.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:04:12 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I love chocolate....personally, I think that people who don't like it must have some kind of defect somewhere...I just can't even comprehend not liking chocolate. Can I prove that thought or provide some anecdotal support for it. Nope. Still doesn't take away my right to have that thought. Still doesn't take away my right to state that thought. As I said in an earlier post, if my having my thought makes someone feel like something is wrong with them....then it's their issue, not mine.



erin,
 
'i love chocolate' and 'i just can't even comprehend not liking chocolate' are your opinions of chocolate, and that is fine.  But when you outright state that those who do not like chocolate must have a defect, that makes the statement derogatory and critical (unless you are only joking of course).  The latter is much different than the former, isn't it?
 
And honestly, the point that there is something wrong with them and it's their issue...well, let's put it this way....statements like this reflect on your character more than it does the ones whom you offend.
 
BTW...i love chocolate....so i don't have that 'defect' 
 
DG


< Message edited by adaddysgirl -- 11/7/2006 7:07:11 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:09:32 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

" Hey,  Fucking Stop! I just ..... (broke my hip, crossed my threshhold, had a heart attack., etc....)
 


Technically, this would be a string of morphemes combined into a specific collection of phonemes which would be considered by anybody listening to the exchange to be...

(pause for emphasis, drum roll)

Safe words.

Thank you for proving our argument that having safe words are a good thing for people in the lifestyle to have to protect the people involved.

Sinergy


Actually....if you go back and look, you will find that there are very few people who resist open and forthright communication. The stance that most of us who are "anti safeword" have taken all along is against pre-scripted code words being touted as if they have some kind of magical power vs. clear and concise communication.


I accept the fact that you have failed to understand what I have stated.

I dont care what words people use to stop a scene, when I use the term "safe words" it is to have words or phrases in place which allow communication between the two people and to allow the bottom to stop the scene if she needs it stopped.

Your comments about "fucking stop that my hip is broken" are ways for the bottom to stop a scene, regardless of what the Top is thinking.

Thank you for proving the point I was trying to make.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:16:57 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
erin, 
'i love cholcoate' and 'i just can't even comperehend not liking chocolate' are your opinions of chocolate, and that is fine.  But when you outright state that those who do not like chocolate must have a defect, that makes the statement derogatory and critical (unless you are only joking of course).  The latter is much different than the former, isn't it?
 
And honestly, the point that there is something wrong with them and it's their issue...well, let's put it this way....statements like that reflect on your character more than it does the ones whom you offend.
 
BTW...i love chocolate....so i don't have that 'defect' 
 


It's only derogatory and critical if that is how they choose to take it. I am not fond of escargot. I am sure that there are some people who will think me defective for not partaking in something that gives them so much pleasure. Tis" ok though....I'm quite happy to be defective in that way ! I don't take it as derogatory. Quite often, right here on these boards, people are very critical of my personal views....but I can promise you that you won't find me crying in my Cheerios over it. That's what I mean. I am responsible for the emotions that I choose to own. I am not responsible for the emotions others choose to own. As for my character...I'm quite happy with who I am. People can view me however they choose. I'm not here seeking validation.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: The use of safewords - 11/7/2006 7:25:53 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		i have not read all the posts here.  my former told me straight out before we ever met that he did not believe in safewords (therefore i was not allowed any).  In 4+ years, i never used one and although he had many faults, reading me was not one of them.  i was never allowed to stop anything; however, he could read me well and knew to push just a bit beyond any limit that he had felt i had reached.

Since i have never used a safeword, i truly cannot say i am for or against, i just know that i have never felt afterwards like i needed one in order to prevent some injury.

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:28:09 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I accept the fact that you have failed to understand what I have stated.


And I accept the fact that you have failed to understand what I have stated.

quote:

I dont care what words people use to stop a scene, when I use the term "safe words" it is to have words or phrases in place which allow communication between the two people and to allow the bottom to stop the scene if she needs it stopped.


And when I use the term "safe word" I am talking solely about pre-scripted magical code words....but you can go on comparing apples to oranges all night long if that is what pleases you.

quote:

Your comments about "fucking stop that my hip is broken" are ways for the bottom to stop a scene, regardless of what the Top is thinking.

Thank you for proving the point I was trying to make.


Ummm...they weren't my comments.....




_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:28:16 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira
Really? And what do you tell the bottom, who believed that a 'safe-word" is the end to end all?


I would tell them the same things I would tell any rape victim.  Beginning with "sorry", and "not all men/women are like that".

Violations of consent are not unique to BDSM and ignoring them is not unique to BDSM.  The most commonly used safewords in the vanilla world are "no", "please no", "stop" and "I don't want to".  Sadly, these safewords are ignored with fair regularity by rapists.

Of course, given that in BDSM we sometimes simulate for pleasure scenes which in the vanilla world are real--and horrible--we sometimes use a safe word other than "no", "please no", "stop", or "I don't want to".  Because the "victim" in a game wants to be able to say all those things without the scene stopping.

Wheras if he/she says "pineapple", the game is really supposed to stop.  And if it doesn't, it becomes real--and horrible.

--M

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:38:18 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

Violations of consent are not unique to BDSM and ignoring them is not unique to BDSM.


Exactly. I was not trying to infer that they were. However, since you so conviently missed the point trying to be made, I will not attempt to point it out again.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:51:10 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		Kalira,
When people expound on your idea in a way that is not in line with your point of view, it does not always mean that they do not value or understand your opinion.
Sometimes, it just means that they want to explore it in another direction or look at it from a different perspective.
I think that the fact that people are responding to your OP means that they think your idea is worth discussing. They don't have to agree with you to appreciate the topic as a good one, and the fact that they disagree with you is not a personal attack.


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 7:51:21 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

It's only derogatory and critical if that is how they choose to take it. I am not fond of escargot. I am sure that there are some people who will think me defective for not partaking in something that gives them so much pleasure. Tis" ok though....I'm quite happy to be defective in that way ! I don't take it as derogatory. Quite often, right here on these boards, people are very critical of my personal views....but I can promise you that you won't find me crying in my Cheerios over it. That's what I mean. I am responsible for the emotions that I choose to own. I am not responsible for the emotions others choose to own. As for my character...I'm quite happy with who I am. People can view me however they choose. I'm not here seeking validation.


Well erin, i think that if you said those that don't like chocolate are morons or idiots....that would sound derogatory to most.  i don't think there would have to be much 'choosing' to take it that way.
 
Yes, i have seen others criticize your views....being critical seems to abound on these forums.  It's that type of stuff that perpetuates a lot of the anger around here.  So maybe you don't care what you say...or how it makes people feel....not your responsibility, but it really is an unbecoming quality....don't you think?
 
i know, i know...you could care less what i think.  So be it.  i have no need to argue that point.
 
DG

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 8:00:41 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

Kalira,
When people expound on your idea in a way that is not in line with your point of view, it does not always mean that they do not value or understand your opinion.
Sometimes, it just means that they want to explore it in another direction or look at it from a different perspective.
I think that the fact that people are responding to your OP means that they think your idea is worth discussing. They don't have to agree with you to appreciate the topic as a good one, and the fact that they disagree with you is not a personal attack.


Out of the respect that I actually do have for you and what you do say on here, I will keep my shut.

Have a nice day.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 8:02:55 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira
Out of the respect that I actually do have for you and what you do say on here, I will keep my shut.

Have a nice day.


Ok, maybe this is a good example because I meant nothing rude, mean, derogatory or unkind in what I said.
Please take it at face value because that's the way it was intended.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 8:06:38 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

quote:

Violations of consent are not unique to BDSM and ignoring them is not unique to BDSM.


Exactly. I was not trying to infer that they were. However, since you so conviently missed the point trying to be made, I will not attempt to point it out again.


I don't believe I "conveniently" missed out on anything.  I believe I actually just pointed out one of the many situations in which conventional language would actually be less useful and far MORE ambiguous than a "silly McSex codeword". 

See, no one says "pineapple" during a real rape or a simulated one.  Just as no one says "pineapple" during a real interrogation, or a simulated one.

The best safe words, in my opinion, work because they are complete non-sequiturs.  I hate to tell some of you geniuses this, but "Ow, that fucking hurts" is NOT exactly a surreal response to someone taking a cane to your buttcheeks, in the real world.  And "Ow stop it you bitch" is actually NOT a great safeword for people who have bratty "tame-me" or "take-down" fantasies.

"Pineapple", on the other hand, is the sort of non-sequitur word which will help both parties pop instantly out of their respective spaces--be it domspace or subspace.  "Pineapple" is nothing that you could possibly be saying in character or as part of a fantasy, it is completely unambiguous, and cannot be mistaken for role-playing of any kind--not even in "forced" or "take-down" scenes.

However, the fact that some people here have so little imagination or experience that they cannot even conceive of the scenarios for which coded words represent clearer communication than "Ow, my hair", really does not concern me.  What DOES concern me is that some of these people insist on being rude, condescending, and spreading misinformation in a public forum where many newcomers to BDSM come to learn the ropes (and chains) of this lifestyle.

I have tried to provide examples of scenes in which safewords are better than "Fucking quit it".  Synergy has done the same--so have other posters.  The problem is not that we are not communicating--the problem is that you are not listening or even trying to listen.

Too bad we don't have a safeword, eh?   Because I would say that there are more than a few people here missing the point. 

--M

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 8:20:26 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
Well erin, i think that if you said those that don't like chocolate are morons or idiots....that would sound derogatory to most.  i don't think there would have to be much 'choosing' to take it that way.
 
Yes, i have seen others criticize your views....being critical seems to abound on these forums.  It's that type of stuff that perpetuates a lot of the anger around here.  So maybe you don't care what you say...or how it makes people feel....not your responsibility, but it really is an unbecoming quality....don't you think?
 
i know, i know...you could care less what i think.  So be it.  i have no need to argue that point.


People seem to just skip over the "I think", "in my opinion", "my view or perspective". Just because I have an opinion does not make it so....it only means I have an opinion. If someone wants to personalize my opinion and attach it to themselves, I can not stop them from doing so. I have stated my opinion on safewords. Not anywhere will you find that I said anything that even began to infer that people who use them are somehow inferior or that because I don't use them I am superior. But as the thread went on some people personalized it that way, that those of us who don't use them were taking a superior stance. Well that simply is not true and if you go back and read the thread you will see that.

And for the record...I do care about what I say. I know that I am rather abrasive and to the point. I've tried it the other way too and decided I didn't like the sugar coated version. Kind of awkward and like trying to wear someone else's shoes. No one else really liked it much either. People in my life actually appreciate that I am straight up with them and that they always know exactly where I stand...no head games, no second guessing or having to try to figure out what I mean by what I say.....go figure.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: The use of safe-words - 11/7/2006 8:22:40 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

I have tried to provide examples of scenes in which safewords are better than "Fucking quit it".  Synergy has done the same--so have other posters.  The problem is not that we are not communicating--the problem is that you are not listening or even trying to listen.



Something about the one I am beating with a soup spoon screaming "THAT FUCKING HURTS DADDY" and "OW OW OW" and "DONT YOU DARE BUTT-RAPE ME" that makes me get all misty.

Pine for the fjords, in a manner of speaking.

Whereas I have no emotional investiture in whether she says "Gingrich" to let me know that my chainsaw just cut off her left leg.  I turn the chainsaw off and get the duct tape.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: The use of safewords - 11/7/2006 8:29:07 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I am a fierce opponent of the safeword concept if we are talking about the use of prescripted "magical" words that are touted to keep one safe. I absolutely will not scene with anyone who insists that I use one. I believe that words like green, yellow, red or Rumpelstiltskin are ridiculous and very poor replacements for open, honest and forthright communication. When something goes wrong in a scene...the thing that is wrong is the first thing that comes to mind. If I am going to vomit, I don't think...uh oh, "red"....I think vomit. If my stomach turns and I am hit with a bout of diarrhea, I don't think "Rumpelstiltskin"....I think diarrhea. If my hip pops out of joint, I don't think "calliope"....I think "my fucking hip is dislocated". In any of those, or in any other of a myriad of situations, I have no desire to go searching my memory banks for the prechosen magic stop the action word. Communication of what is actually taking place works just fine.

I am also one of those subs who DOES become entirely uncommunicative after a certain point. Having a magic word at that point....or even trying to rely upon normal conversation....would be impossible. The only thing that will assure me any higher degree of safety at that point is the good judgement that I made prior to the scene in my choice of partner. It is the reason that I do not rush lightly into play with people I don't know well and it is the reason that I don't advocate casual play to others. Magic words are not a replacement for a Dominant that is in tune and paying attention.

My biggest beef with the safeword concept is that far too often I hear of Dominants who have these discussions with newer submissives and they talk of these safewords as if they are some kind of certified, stamped and approved ticket to safe scenes. I often see newbies who throw caution to the wind and common sense out the window because...."It'll all be fine...he gave me a safeword". Well, that's just fucking horsepuckey. I have also seen, especially in the case of those newer, Dominants who don't know when to end a scene without hearing the utterance of those magical words.

In my own experience...I once had a Dominant abruptly end a scene because I apparently said the word "purple" He assumed that in my delirium I confused my colors. In actuality, purple is the color I most often experience in subspace. My utterance of it was indicative that I was in a really good place....not in trouble. On another occasion I was involved in a scene that went really bad. I tried communicating openly....didn't work. I tried communicating a bit more forcefully....didn't work. Yes, I even resorted to saying and then screaming the most common "magic" word "red"......guess what....that didn't work either. Later at the hospital while I was being stitched up....I came to terms with the fact that I was the responsible party for the failure of the scene. A bit more common sense and forethought on my part would have kept me from participating.




I agree with this ... alot... so much so... I thought it deserved to be repeated

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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