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Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:29:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I have noticed that there is a concept that does not get talked about much here, we talk about communication, honesty, trust… what I think that we are missing in our discussions is talking about the power of acceptance. I was wondering if this is important to people?

I will attempt to describe what I am talking about in relation to WIITWD . In my view acceptance is the cornerstone of good communication, trust, and honesty. I believe that people will be listened to, trusted, and a person will be honest with another when there is mutual acceptance of each other. Without acceptance there are walls to openness. If a person feels they are not valued for their intrinsic worth it closes down communication in my mind. If a person cannot be honest about their needs, desires, and even fantasies it is because they fear on some level they will not be accepted for them

What are your thoughts? Does this concept figure into your relationship, if you are single still, is acceptance something you feel is important?


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:38:00 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think I can add much personally other than to say I think you're dead on.  But I will rip an Alanis Morissette song which I have always felt shows my viewpoint on love and relationships perfectly.

You Owe me Nothing in Return, Alanis Morissette

I'll give you countless amounts of outright
Acceptance if you want it. I will give you
Encouragement to choose the path that you want if you need it.

You can speak of anger and doubts,
Your fears and freak-outs and I'll hold it.
You can share your so-called
Shamefilled accounts of times in your life and I won't judge it.

And there are no strings attached to it,
You owe me nothing for giving the love that I give.
You owe me nothing for caring the way that I have.
I give you thanks for receiving, it's my privilege,
And you owe me nothing in return.

You can ask for space for yourself
And only yourself and I'll grant it.
You can ask for freedom as well
Or time to travel and you'll have it.

You can ask to live by yourself
Or love someone else and I'll support it.
You can ask for anything you want
Anything at all and I'll understand it.

I bet you're wondering when
The next payback shoe will eventually drop.
I bet you're wondering when my conditional police will force you to cough up.
I bet you're wondering how far you now have danced your way back into debt
This is the only kind of love
As I understand it that there really is.

You can express your deepest of thruths
Even if it means I'll lose you and I'll hear it.
You can fall into the abyss
On the way to your bliss
And I'll empathize with.
You can say that you'll have to skip town
To chase your passion and I'll hear it.
You can even hit rock bottom have a mid-life chrisis and I'll hold it.

You owe me nothing for giving the love that I give.
You owe me nothing for caring the way that I have.
I give you thanks for receiving, it's my privilege,
And you owe me nothing in return.




_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:40:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		So you ain't a gift of submission kinda broad, I take it?

LOL,
Ron

(see folks? You can serve and it can be all about you!!!!!!!! that's what is slick here............gotta love it when a plan comes together, no?)  

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:42:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I love that song and agree with it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:55:47 AM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		I think acceptance came before anything else in my relationship
accepting myself and my own needs and feeling comfortable in my role and then accepting his ways and needs.  Being able to accept each other for what we are and who we are means we dont need to compromise ourselfs becasue we know what each other wants and needs and thats why we work together so well does that sound silly? i may have read this question completely wrong lol apologies if i am off the mark

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Proud mistress

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 8:59:06 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		We all want to be accepted for who we are. But that dosent always happen.

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 9:45:16 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		The problem that I find with acceptance is that most don't have a good understanding of what it is. Often times I see people who think that acceptance is a synonym for agreement. If their partner or the person they are dealing with does not agree with them or who they are they feel they are not being accepted.

I see that often here on the boards. People disagree with each other and someone ends up walking away feeling as though there is no acceptance. But people CAN accept others for who they are and still disagree.

Acceptance is not always the cornerstone for building a foundation of trust and communication. As an example...I have a brother who is an abusive alcoholic. I accept him for what he is and I don't try to change him. For many, many years I tried to trust....I tried communication. Once I made the concious choice to simply accept him as he is...and that he is comfortable enough in his skin to not want to change.... it basically shut down all further communication. I can accept someone else's reality of who they are and also decide that I don't have to communicate with them, trust them or subject myself to them.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 9:49:35 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

Without acceptance there are walls to openness. If a person feels they are not valued for their intrinsic worth it closes down communication in my mind. If a person cannot be honest about their needs, desires, and even fantasies it is because they fear on some level they will not be accepted for them


Very well said and definitely still a tough hurdle for me. I've made some caustic judgments based on desires /fantasies.


 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 9:53:57 AM   
CrazyC


Posts: 949
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: canupleaseme

I think acceptance came before anything else in my relationship
accepting myself and my own needs and feeling comfortable in my role and then accepting his ways and needs.  Being able to accept each other for what we are and who we are means we dont need to compromise ourselfs becasue we know what each other wants and needs and thats why we work together so well does that sound silly? i may have read this question completely wrong lol apologies if i am off the mark


You are right on! i think if we can't accept ourselves first then we will close off communication of acceptence. Not see it infront of us, because "how can someone accept me, when i can't even accept myself?" The hardest part is sometimes we don't see that in ourselves, and then wonder why no one wants us. It is because without even knowing it we have sabotaged the communication on bases of what we thought and not what was really going on.

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 9:53:57 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Accept your own fantasies, take your lumps.. 
 
If one's happiness depends on what other's think- they will never be happy.
 
The most I expect is "tolerance"
 
Do not expect a standing ovation.

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 9:56:28 AM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

What are your thoughts? Does this concept figure into your relationship, if you are single still, is acceptance something you feel is important?

Acceptance by those outside of personal relationships? No, it is of no importance to me what-so-ever.

Acceptance by my family for the kind of life I live? No, understanding yes, but they do not have to accept what I do ( and yes, I do see a difference there )

Acceptance by my friends for the kind of like I live? Refer to the family answer.

Acceptance by Master for the kind of life I live? Umm, well...duh  If Master did not accept me and what I do, we would not be in a relationship.

In my opinion, acceptance has nothing to do with communication, honesty and trust. You can trust someone explicitly, and still not accept their stand on certain issues within their own life. You can communicate with someone till you are blue in the face; that does not mean that it will guarantee you acceptance. You can be as honest as you want, and the same thing will apply; it will not guarantee you acceptance.

quote:

  If a person cannot be honest about their needs, desires, and even fantasies it is because they fear on some level they will not be accepted for them


For some yes, that is a stumbling block. First accepting that you have such 'fantasies' within yourself.

For others though, who do 'accept' this within themeselves, yet still do not find a need to express them to others; I do not see the argument. I fail to see where trust, honesty and communication would have anything to do with this.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 10:27:35 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		This kind of acceptance is what I term "unconditional love".  We give it without expectation of return. However, as you have so aptly said, we don't have to accept negative behavior...so we can still offer love, but realize that the relationship is toxic for us and step back, if we need to.

For me, it comes down to "your stuff" and "my stuff". How you treat me is a direct result of "your stuff". How I deal with, accept or reject that treatment is "my stuff". Case in point: I have a friend and lover with whom I've formed a bond. I greatly enjoy spending time with him and want to be a part of his life in this manner for a long time. He has issues about introducing me to his family. He in convinced they won't like me because I am kinky, bi and poly. I've said that I will not hide who I am. It's not something that I'd shout or probably even bring up myself, but if someone asked a question, I would answer honestly. Introducing me to the family, he feels, would put me squarely in the "romantic relationship" category in their eyes, rather than in the poly lover/friend category we see it as, and they would then start sizing me up. He feels that I wouldn't measure up in their eyes and that they'd be mean to me. Having their approval is important to him because there are things that having that approval affords him. I happen to disagree with him (I’m quite charming LOL) and feel that he’s being disrespectful to his family for not allowing them to form their own opinions.

Now, I see "his stuff" as being his willingness to sacrifice his happiness and integrity in order to get what he wants, in the end, from his family. That decision spills over onto me because it sets a limit to how involved in his life I can really be. "My stuff" is deciding if I can accept this limitation and the reasons behind it. Right now, it's worth it; I'm not looking to be his wife. I will admit that it'd be nice to be the primary girlfriend, but since our lives have a real chance of parting ways in under a year, this, too, is not really an option.   I won’t lie. The situation hurts, because there’s that 4 year old wondering why she’s not good enough. But, I’ve looked at WHY it hurts and have learned some things about myself and have grown. It is unfair of me to expect him to change because change is unlikely and it only adds to his struggle. I don’t go and visit the families of a lot of my friends. I care for him and so, I offer acceptance of his struggle.   In the end, his struggle really has nothing to do with me and everything to do with him. I'm just the catalyst for his lesson. If he doesn't learn to live in integrity because of me, the lesson will simply keep coming around. My struggle is looking at the piece that wonders why I’m not good enough. That has nothing to do with him and everything to do with me. He is simply the catalyst and the lesson will keep coming around until I deal with it.
Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 10:49:36 AM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		crazyc im so glad i made sense to someone lol looking back at all my past relationships i never allowed them to accept me becasue i hadnt accepted who i was myself which is why we didnt work out both in vanilla and in bdsm. Now i accept i can be a pervert and its quite ok  but seriously  i believe acceptance is something that comes early on for me i need to have that so i can build a relationship and develope trust and understanding.
I also agree that acceptig someone for who they are doesnt mean you have to always agree or get on which is where compramise comes in.
For two years my best friend lived with me he was a raging alcholic when i met him with a lot of issues regarding hissexuality and who he was i accepted this in him and realised now amount of mothering or love no matter how unconditional would change that him him he had to do it for himself  but by accepting that and realising that is who he was we were able to compramise which basically for me meant tthats fine if you want to drink drink but you dont do it at my house and resulted in him becoming dry for over a year.  It was only through accepting who he was thathe felt safe and comfortable enough to try for himself .  Unfortunatly he fell back off the wagon and i had to ask him to leave  but we are still just as close he accepts that whilst i love him i cant have that here and we remain the closest of friends just from afar now it was one of the strongest relationships ive ever had with anybody and i belive acceptance and understanding played a big part of that
sorry to waffle

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 11:04:41 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Without acceptance at least on a significant level there's going to be dischord. Part of the reason people try to change each other is that they didn't fully accept or understand their partner initially. Hearts rule heads and  they can *air-brush* things out for quite a while until they reel around and bite you on the arse.

It's difficult to accept someone fully until you actually know what you're accepting, therefore you have to know someone pretty well, in relationship terms. If I can't accept someone as a whole person then it's not a lot of use integrating them into my life in any major way.

Maybe there's a point when you know you can accept someone for all the good and all the not so good..........with some other people you may just not be able to do that.

I tend to accept people that I know less well based on what I know of them, so I suppose it's a limited acceptance...or an ongoing process, to a degree.

agirl









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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 11:18:52 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I see it in the reverse. If I am open and honest with others, if I communicate in a clear and understandable manner and am respectful of them and their thoughts and ideas then the chances are pretty good that they are going to accept me for who I am and the life choices that I've made. I couldn't possible ask someone to accept, approve of or understand me and mine until there is an already existing mutual respect. As LotusSong said.. the most I hope for is tolerance until such a time that I can provide enough respect, communication, honesty, trust and openness to gain their acceptance. But it isn't something that I strive for and it isn't anything that I've really concerned myself about. If it happens... all the better, someone may end up getting educated about wiitwd... or, like most people I know, they won't because they don't want to... but they still like us.
 
Jewel

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Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 11:19:58 AM   
greeneyes1962


Posts: 117
Joined: 9/7/2005
Status: offline 		Wow! I haven't read any responses yet. but this subject really speaks to me at this moment. I have been  dealing with issues of depression, poor self esteem, codependance.

Sometimes, this makes me want to push away those closest to me. My Dom puts a stop to it immediately, and does accept me with all my faults, pushes me to get outside help when needed, and loves me through all of it.

He has earned my full trust and love with his patience and kindness.

< Message edited by greeneyes1962 -- 11/7/2006 11:23:10 AM >

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 11:59:35 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: greeneyes1962

Wow! I haven't read any responses yet. but this subject really speaks to me at this moment. I have been  dealing with issues of depression, poor self esteem, codependance.

Sometimes, this makes me want to push away those closest to me. My Dom puts a stop to it immediately, and does accept me with all my faults, pushes me to get outside help when needed, and loves me through all of it.

He has earned my full trust and love with his patience and kindness.


I think that this is what I am talking about when feeling accepted for who and what I am in my relationship. I find myself encouraging the same thing from him, to tell me his hidden things that other people have not been able to accept about him. It makes me feel closer to him to know I can say things to him that I can not say to others.. he will accept me anyways.. it takes time to know this....

but that leads to the other aspect of acceptance that MasterFirMaam stated which I can also relate to...

quote:

won’t lie. The situation hurts, because there’s that 4 year old wondering why she’s not good enough. But, I’ve looked at WHY it hurts and have learned some things about myself and have grown. It is unfair of me to expect him to change because change is unlikely and it only adds to his struggle. I don’t go and visit the families of a lot of my friends. I care for him and so, I offer acceptance of his struggle.   In the end, his struggle really has nothing to do with me and everything to do with him. I'm just the catalyst for his lesson. If he doesn't learn to live in integrity because of me, the lesson will simply keep coming around. My struggle is looking at the piece that wonders why I’m not good enough. That has nothing to do with him and everything to do with me. He is simply the catalyst and the lesson will keep coming around until I deal with it.
Master Fire


The feeling that someone cannot accept themselves, and therefore cannot accept that aspect of you that brought you together.. it is "his stuff" as you stated so well, and yet it affects you because his lack of self acceptance impacts you. In the final analysis it is not his family's acceptance he needs, but his own self acceptance.

We do not choose our family, they are the people that bring the "stuff" into our lives that we must deal with... we choose our lovers and our friends... their acceptance becomes all the more poignant as a result (at least for me). It is fine if my family accepts me, but it is my self acceptance that matters more. Our sexuality is so important to the core of who we are, and that we can expose ourselves to another person that fulfills our needs in such a deep way speaks very much of deep acceptance. Perhaps your friend will find that in other aspects of his life one day.

quote:

Kalira

In my opinion, acceptance has nothing to do with communication, honesty and trust. You can trust someone explicitly, and still not accept their stand on certain issues within their own life. You can communicate with someone till you are blue in the face; that does not mean that it will guarantee you acceptance. You can be as honest as you want, and the same thing will apply; it will not guarantee you acceptance.




There are levels of acceptance. It is my ultimate goal to become a more accepting person, but the kind of acceptance I seek in my dynamic is of a different source or a different depth perhaps.

I do not need someone to agree with me and all my opinions, but i do need them to accept my inner being regardless, not seek to change the core of my being, and as MasterFireMaam put it, love me unconditionally.. the unconditional love part comes after the acceptance part in my mind.. others think differently about their relationships I suppose and that is what makes the world go round.. I am speaking of a specific type of relationship, which is an intimate one.. not of friends and family and our children. I thought I was explicit about that in the opening post in regard to WIITWD.

quote:

Without acceptance at least on a significant level there's going to be dischord. Part of the reason people try to change each other is that they didn't fully accept or understand their partner initially. Hearts rule heads and  they can *air-brush* things out for quite a while until they reel around and bite you on the arse.

It's difficult to accept someone fully until you actually know what you're accepting, therefore you have to know someone pretty well, in relationship terms. If I can't accept someone as a whole person then it's not a lot of use integrating them into my life in any major way.


 
Bingo! This is so true, it takes time to know what we are truly accepting, warts and all! We grow together with each little acceptance of each other. Accepting good and bad.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 11/7/2006 12:02:49 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 12:17:21 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

In my view acceptance is the cornerstone of good communication, trust, and honesty.


You hit the nail on the head. How can we communicate effectively with anyone without acceptance? The by-product of acceptance is communion (communication), in whatever form or shape it takes within our different relationships in life.

quote:

I believe that people will be listened to, trusted, and a person will be honest with another when there is mutual acceptance of each other.


...and faith and acceptance of the relationship itself.

quote:

If a person feels they are not valued for their intrinsic worth it closes down communication in my mind.


People feel all sorts of things for different reasons, some of those things having no basis in reality. As has been mentioned previously, a basic acceptance of self is needed before any real form of communication can be had with anyone.

Nice topic



_____________________________

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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 12:31:44 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		The corresponding thread on being alone, as well as the recent news about how married people are now a minority, go along with this thread quite well.

We talk about not settling.  That's fine, well and good.

We talk about having peculiarities that require acceptance, both from ourselves as well as others.  Although I made my peace with myself ages ago, I'm saddened that others have not made it to that point yet.

It gets to the point that we see ourselves as SO individual, SO finite, that at some point we assume that there CANNOT be a match for us (as people not in relationships (part of the OP)) without some degree of settling, or an inordinate amount of compromise from one party or the other (or both), and it becomes easier just to put others on the backburner.

Is this the definition of pushing ourselves away from others?  Perhaps so.  After all, what is the alternative?  If there were some huge database along the lines of inputting 'ourselves' as well as what kinks we enjoy crossmatched with those who fit a particular profile (gender, height and weight, sexual identification, what they are into as well as what they are NOT, what kinks in a partner they find acceptable (and NOT), location relative to yours, etc.), then 'maybe' we can allow our guards to be dropped for a moment.

Think this view of ourselves relative to others is farfetched?  Think twice, I believe.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

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RE: Acceptance - 11/7/2006 12:43:46 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have noticed that there is a concept that does not get talked about much here, we talk about communication, honesty, trust… what I think that we are missing in our discussions is talking about the power of acceptance. I was wondering if this is important to people?

I will attempt to describe what I am talking about in relation to WIITWD . In my view acceptance is the cornerstone of good communication, trust, and honesty. I believe that people will be listened to, trusted, and a person will be honest with another when there is mutual acceptance of each other. Without acceptance there are walls to openness. If a person feels they are not valued for their intrinsic worth it closes down communication in my mind. If a person cannot be honest about their needs, desires, and even fantasies it is because they fear on some level they will not be accepted for them

What are your thoughts? Does this concept figure into your relationship, if you are single still, is acceptance something you feel is important?



I have to agree with mist in this:  too many times, people equate acceptance with agreement. 
I accept my brother as my brother; I love him and enjoy the time I spend with him.  We work on our hot rods together and share a common, rather difficult, childhood.  However, acceptance of him as my brother does not mean agreement with all parts of his life.  This is a concept that he has had trouble grasping occasionally. 

He is very straight-laced when it comes to sexual matters.  He is somewhat repulsed by BDSM (and he just considers the mild stuff).  I...shockingly...am not.  He is very hard-nosed in his attitude towards his grown children.  I disagree with his efforts to control them as I have felt that once my kids were of a certain age, controlling them was the surest way to drive them away.  There are other things that do not need to be gone into here.  The point is that I know all these things and more about him and while I disagree with THOSE things, I accept the overall "him" as my brother.  Maybe part of it is because I do not view any of them as toxic to our relationship as brothers.   

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