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Hizbullah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah: When We Were Young, I cannot Forget the Sight of American Forces leaving Vietnam, and the Americans Abandoning their Vietnamese Allies, I Anticipate the Same for our Region.

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My only answer as a Brit and a European is, lynch Blair!

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Mercnbeth presents this in the proper light in my view ... that we shouldn't have gone, is immaterial to the question of "now what?"
 
We should not have gone, but don't feel we can just up and leave. Things may not be going all that well, but the final outcome is yet to be determined, no matter what some on this board want to suggest. They are not being any more truthful than our President, when he tells us it is going according to plan.
 
As for the Germans and French laughing ... well, so what. If their response to seeing a supposed "friend" struggle, is to laugh ... you know, with friends like that, who needs enemies.

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Mercnbeth presents this in the proper light in my view ... that we shouldn't have gone, is immaterial to the question of "now what?"
 
We should not have gone, but don't feel we can just up and leave. Things may not be going all that well, but the final outcome is yet to be determined, no matter what some on this board want to suggest. They are not being any more truthful than our President, when he tells us it is going according to plan.
 
As for the Germans and French laughing ... well, so what. If their response to seeing a supposed "friend" struggle, is to laugh ... you know, with friends like that, who needs enemies.

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ORIGINAL: toservez

We are already in a no win scenario. I agree that it will look like/be a complete failure leaving without a stable government in place but we have seen zero factual news outside of a election which meant little took place. Nothing is getting done, the police force we are trying to train is a joke by all reports and it is quickly becoming a religious/civil war.

We can talk and chest pound how great and powerful we are until we are blue in the face but in the end we are nothing more then an foreign occupation  that just causes more problems in the short and long term future. It was pure hubris on our part to think we could take a country, let alone a country in that region, with three different religious groups and turn it into a peaceful democracy. We could have used our resources on people who are truly out to get us or use us as a way to ralley people to do bad things to others. Instead we just did something that helped fuel those poeple's fire.

We will withdrawl and it will be in failure. The only questions are, how much, the cost in lives and dollars and what future damage it may bring.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

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ORIGINAL: toservez

We are already in a no win scenario. I agree that it will look like/be a complete failure leaving without a stable government in place but we have seen zero factual news outside of a election which meant little took place. Nothing is getting done, the police force we are trying to train is a joke by all reports and it is quickly becoming a religious/civil war.

We can talk and chest pound how great and powerful we are until we are blue in the face but in the end we are nothing more then an foreign occupation  that just causes more problems in the short and long term future. It was pure hubris on our part to think we could take a country, let alone a country in that region, with three different religious groups and turn it into a peaceful democracy. We could have used our resources on people who are truly out to get us or use us as a way to ralley people to do bad things to others. Instead we just did something that helped fuel those poeple's fire.

We will withdrawl and it will be in failure. The only questions are, how much, the cost in lives and dollars and what future damage it may bring.

toserve, I think you're right on.
Our Troops are very good at winning wars but when it becomes an "occupation" no Troops are good at that!
At that point it just becomes a shooting gallery.
Just like if a foreign invader tried to occupy the U.S.
With more than 300 million firearms in the hands of the Citizens here it wouldn't last long for the occupiers.
They'd be stung real bad.
Like Bush said; "Mission Accomplished."
They got Saddam.
Our part is done!

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We can talk and chest pound how great and powerful we are until we are blue in the face but in the end we are nothing more then an foreign occupation  that just causes more problems in the short and long term future. It was pure hubris on our part to think we could take a country, let alone a country in that region, with three different religious groups and turn it into a peaceful democracy. We could have used our resources on people who are truly out to get us or use us as a way to ralley people to do bad things to others. Instead we just did something that helped fuel those poeple's fire.

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I'm reminded that when the troops hit some difficulty on Omaha Beach, most of Ike's advisors suggested he withdraw. When Bastone was encircled, one of our lovely allies suggested that the situation was hopeless and we needed to pull back. Most in Europe, told us that getting involved in the Balkans, would widen the conflict.
 
We do not yet know what will happen in Iraq. None of us were at the NSC meeting two days ago ... we have the picture the media is presenting to us ... and we all know that the media never lies or presents information designed to sell more media.

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ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Meat, it's in the hands of the Iraqi People now.
Sink or swim.