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RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 9:50:23 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		Congrats to the winners!

The best case is that this election will not be seen as a mandate, but as an opportunity. If not the situation the US went through after 1994 will repeat itself. Nancy Pelosi is poised to be in the same position as Newt Gingridge was. Although it's taken 12 years and an unpopular war to reverse that election; it only took about 6 months for the perceived mandate to disintegrate behind a backlash to the arrogance of the Republican victory.

The best way to go down the same path would be to repeat the same mistake of impeachment. President Bush will be out in two years, he is the lamest lame duck. Were it me, I wouldn't make him a perceived victim. Instead, I'd make him an obstacle to true change.

Nancy Pelosi said last night that the voters voted for a change in direction and they voted for the Democrats to effect that change. I couldn't agree more. But it's not just a change of policy. I think what was sought by the voting public was a change in the arrogance and hypocrisy shown in the last 12 years by Republicans. If the right wing arrogance is just replaced by left wing arrogance, they will not win the executive branch in 2008.

To me, Mrs Pelosi didn't finish the thought, I would have liked to know what direction she was planning on taking the country. Her personal beliefs of amnesty for illegal aliens and the use of US taxpayer dollars to provide benefits to them is contrary to my personal beliefs. However, she is an adamant 1st amendment proponent and she is a strong advocate for a balance budget; both equally important to me.

Looking at the details, a pro-gun, anti abortion Senator was elected in Pennsylvania. A pro-Iraq war won over an anti-war candidate in Connecticut. Everyone from President Clinton to Demi Moore campaigned for a referendum in California that would have taxed Oil Companies; but it still lost.

I will say this about the losing side. Unlike every election during the past 12 years, the Republicans thus far are pointing to themselves as the reason, not any election ballot conspiracy. At least not yet.

As I said this election provides opportunity. I eagerly await how, or if, it will be used over the next two years. My hope and goal is that in 2008 I'll have someone to vote FOR versus a choice of which of the two I need to vote against.

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 10:57:32 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

One thing I did agree with Hillary Clinton on was a National Healthcare System for Americans.



Could not disagree more - our government is not known for doing anything right, all they do is throw money at a problem and tell us how much they care.

Welfare started off as a great idea - I believe in helping those Americans (notice I said AMERICANS) that are unable to work or are down on their luck temporarily.  But welfare mushroomed out of control and if you are a lazy schmuck, you can sit your ass on the couch and watch Jerry Springer all day, not attempt to find work, and have the taxpayers pay for you to live that way.

National Healthcare would have people abusing it for cosmetic surgery, sex change operations, etc. and every kind of scam that could be conceived.  National Healthcare should be for a person's health, not vanity.  If you want cosmetic surgery, sex changes, etc. then buy supplemental on your own.  (I'm going to get flamed, but too bad, it's part my money that people want to waste)

Look how bad government has screwed up the military in the last 40 years and that is something the government is required to manage.

No to National Healthcare until we get a six Party system that can make sure we have an option to vote for competent people to manage it, not just a Red or Blue Stater.


Togive, I didn't say that a National Healthcare Program should be used for "sex-change operations or cosmetic surgery."
Also we could have one without the government "running it."
We "The People" could fund it through our taxes but why would we need the govt. to "run it?"
That's the last thing we need is another giant govt. buearaucracy with thousands of forms to fill out! You don't get any "bang for the buck" by paying for paperwork.
I'm not aware that European Healthcare Programs are abused.
They and Canada's healthcare systems seem to work alright except for the waiting times (backups) for operations.
It would seem that we're paying for all the uninsured Americans anyway, aren't we?
I'd rather pay for a National Healthcare Program than for having our Troops in 130 foreign countries and having wars that benefit Exon/Mobil.
We've had Troops in S. Korea for 54 years now, Fifty Four Years!
How much longer are they going to be there?
We guard foreign countrie's borders but we don't guard our own?
Does that make (any type of sense) to anyone?
If Big Corporations need security in foreign countries then let (them) pay for heavily armed private security, not the U.S. Taxpayers.
They pay no taxes and they get a free ride?
I don't know about you but I have no "interests" in S. Korea.

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 11:01:33 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"I'm not aware that European Healthcare Programs are abused."

.....it does occasionally happen........but it's a trade off........i'd rather have a system where all in need get the help they need but a few abuse the privilige, rather than a system where no-one can rip it off, but the truly weak fall through the cracks.
It's all about where your priorities lie......money or people. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 11:14:02 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"I'm not aware that European Healthcare Programs are abused."

.....it does occasionally happen........but it's a trade off........i'd rather have a system where all in need get the help they need but a few abuse the privilige, rather than a system where no-one can rip it off, but the truly weak fall through the cracks.
It's all about where your priorities lie......money or people. 



Philosophy, again we agree.
We in the U.S. can simply no longer afford a huge military for the benefit of other countries.
A non-governmental agency could be set up to administer a National Healthcare Program.
The last thing we need is tens of thousands of people with college and university degrees sitting at desks shuffling papers for $80k per year like in the U.S. govt or the "U.N."

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 11:17:43 AM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
Status: offline 		Ever hear the term, life isn't fair?  I'm sorry if it sounds crass, but shit happens and it's just what it is.  People get in car accidents, get cancer, have nutty dictators or terrorists kill them, government does stupid things and they end up homeless, and on and on and on.

It is so touchy feely to say, "we need to help every single person", but it is not realistic no matter how noble the cause.  If a man gets prostate cancer, there is something like a 70% chance that no health care system in the world would help him survive.

You do what you can for as many of the people that you can and you feel bad for those that you can't help.  I know, this sounds horrible and I wish we, as a nation, could help every person with every problem, but we just can't and to try to make it so we can and bankrupt the country in the process means that more people would suffer as the result.

About 3,000 people went to work on 9/11 never thinking they wouldn't make it though the day; it's not fair what happened to them, but it did and it's just life.  We could have procedures in place to tap every phone, cameras in every house, searches of all persons at any time to prevent the terrorists from doing what they did, but it wouldn't be practical and it would cause the country to grind to a halt.

I don't believe in Big Government, I don't like the people running our government (new or old), and they certainly aren't qualified to properly manage what we need.  So to leave it up to the government to run yet another monolithic program is not the answer.

Sorry if I trounced on some people's sensibilities; but if you want fair, you won't find it in real life.

_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 11:41:20 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"Sorry if I trounced on some people's sensibilities; but if you want fair, you won't find it in real life."

....fairness is a human artefact. We can choose to create or deny it to people. Yes, random shit happens to people, and it often is unfair. However to use that principle to argue against creating fair systems is pure sophistry........we will never make life perfectly fair, but we can make it less unfair. Some people see the unfairness in the world and seem to just settle for it. Some people try to make life less unfair. TGD, from my pov your position is, at best, defeatist. Your use of 9/11 as a reason to deny universal health care is not a worthy argument.  

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 12:03:06 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		I always find the healthcare debate a troubling one full of contradictions. The current system is broken. The medical profession, lawyers and insurance companies are all getting rich by raping the public and nobody wants to put a stop to it because of the fear of the unknown. Now this system works for me because I am in the medical field but I find this whole being afraid to even have serious discussion or debate to trying to fix/nationlize the situation quite troubling. We thump our chest at how we are the best country in the world but we seem unwilling to address our problems.

One of the reported exit pole questions was that 40% of the people asked thought the generation after them will have it worse then them. In the history of the question that is the highest percentage. It is a shame that it appears this country that prides itself as the land of opportunity is becoming the land of well it could be worse.


_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 12:05:36 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

I'm so happy, we can all start bitching about how the dems are screwing up. It get's old just hearing bush bashing all the time. A little variety will be nice.




NeedsToUseYou:
I am in need of a happiness fix so please tell me all the good things bush & co. have done.

thompson

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 12:09:12 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Royalton

Popeye, they won't do any of the three.  Expect amnesty, impeachment attempt and inquires all over the place, and a lot of demagogery for 2008


Royalton:
Sad but true.

thompson

(in reply to Royalton)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:17:29 PM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

I always find the healthcare debate a troubling one full of contradictions. The current system is broken. The medical profession, lawyers and insurance companies are all getting rich by raping the public and nobody wants to put a stop to it because of the fear of the unknown. Now this system works for me because I am in the medical field but I find this whole being afraid to even have serious discussion or debate to trying to fix/nationlize the situation quite troubling. We thump our chest at how we are the best country in the world but we seem unwilling to address our problems.

One of the reported exit pole questions was that 40% of the people asked thought the generation after them will have it worse then them. In the history of the question that is the highest percentage. It is a shame that it appears this country that prides itself as the land of opportunity is becoming the land of well it could be worse.



Well, HMOs have already proved that healthcare shouldn't be totally managed by private companies, but a monolithic government program at the other end of the spectrum isn't the answer either.

Some mixture with the efficiencies of private company management with government oversight and regulations would be good - but private industry can't really be trusted (e.g. Enron, WorldCom, etc.) and government oversight is easily thwarted by under the table payoffs (e.g. Former Illinois Governor George Ryan, Louisiana Representative Bill Jefferson, Florida Rep Alcee Hastings, Jack Abramoff).

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place and no real decent avenue to make sure that a functioning program is created that isn't rife with corruption and misuse.

What we have doesn't work - what was proposed won't work.  There isn't a simple answer to this question (and to many other questions).

_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:27:19 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Royalton

Popeye, they won't do any of the three.  Expect amnesty, impeachment attempt and inquires all over the place, and a lot of demagogery for 2008


Royalton:
Sad but true.

thompson


Thompson, I disagree.
This election was lost by the Republicans for what they *have* been doing as well as for what they *haven't* been doing.
We have laws in place (immigration) that have not been enforced!
It's not like the Dems, Repubs, or any other Party has a "choice" in this matter.
I don't know one person who is "in favor" of "amnesties" for illegal aliens, open borders, out of control "immigration", or benefits for illegal aliens. Do you?

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/8/2006 1:31:30 PM >

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:46:19 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yes ... we should put the fear of God into our leaders.
 
If we work hard enough, we can ensure that everyone we elect, would be so fucking scared to make a mistake, that they would come to Washington and make absolutely no decisons worth making.
 
What a wonderful plan ... and not only that, but the French would understand us then.

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:58:06 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Yes ... we should put the fear of God into our leaders.
 
If we work hard enough, we can ensure that everyone we elect, would be so fucking scared to make a mistake, that they would come to Washington and make absolutely no decisons worth making.
 
What a wonderful plan ... and not only that, but the French would understand us then.


Caitlyn, I agree!
This is a classic example of what happens when the people in Washington *don't   f......g  L-I-S-T-E-N*  to The People.

Oh, how did my buddy Kinky Freidman do in Texas yesterday?

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:59:21 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Are you actually equating war crimes with business as usual politics?

Amazing...!

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 1:59:36 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Yes ... we should put the fear of God into our leaders.
 
If we work hard enough, we can ensure that everyone we elect, would be so fucking scared to make a mistake, that they would come to Washington and make absolutely no decisons worth making.
 
What a wonderful plan ... and not only that, but the French would understand us then.


Fuck the french, but we need more presidents that wanna get their dicks sucked and fights that are deadlocked with our lawmakers.......

The idea here being that when shit runs right, we don't need some fuckin' wizards with ideas for laws and actions to fix shit.

Look at the number of laws passed  throughout the united states, and not one of those goddamn laws is to give freedom, but to take it away from some section of other entitlement, and it usually kills the mood.................

These idiots need to concentrate on their suits and public image and smarmy grafting and quit fuckin adjusting the buttons on the radio.

Seems like most of the guys looking to get their dick sucked in that crowd   are democrats, the republicans are too busy cornholing someone in a closet..........

Seems to me that everybody is saying lets really strive here now, but that wasn't a tune being sung last week............

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 2:01:38 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Oh, how did my buddy Kinky Freidman do in Texas yesterday?


Spent the night contemplating his singing career. Supposedly, he had the best post election party the state has ever seen. 

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 3:45:44 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level
Lam, even if that's true, I believe the majority of people don't want to see anything that even remotely smells partisan. They don't want fighting, and arguing, "they're evil, watch us punish them". The public is tired of the divisiveness, and tired from Iraq and the hurricane season of 2005, they want our government to work together for posistive goals, not "I'm gonna getcha".


I can't recall your stated leanings offhand but these words could only have been spoken by a Republican sympathizer. People who rob the people, break the laws of this country, purposefully decimate civil liberties, and lead us to a pointless war should abso-fucking-lutely be brought to justice. That's not a partisan issue - that's the rule of law. Ever heard of that? No one is above the law, ideally at least. Make the fuckers pay for the crimes that can fairly be put at their feet.

The divisiveness of this administration has been unprecedented. I say let them burn. I do not oppose the death penalty for what these thugs have done. When soldiers die so that Halliburton stockholders can get fat and wealthy I say let them burn.

When the right people are brought to justice we can let the rest of the finger pointing drop, but not until then. Not one moment before that time will do either.

Blood is paid in blood.



I am and always have been a registered Democrat, and have voted for them, as well as Republicans, Libertarians, and Greens. I "sympathize" for no party, but for this country.
 
I stand by the reasons I've given.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Chaingang)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 4:36:57 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Nancy Pelosi said last night that the voters voted for a change in direction and they voted for the Democrats to effect that change. I couldn't agree more. But it's not just a change of policy. I think what was sought by the voting public was a change in the arrogance and hypocrisy shown in the last 12 years by Republicans. If the right wing arrogance is just replaced by left wing arrogance, they will not win the executive branch in 2008.


This diehard democrat agrees with you completely. I also think it's crucial that we Dems remember that the election was more an expression of disgust with Bush than a rallying around our agenda.

quote:

I will say this about the losing side. Unlike every election during the past 12 years, the Republicans thus far are pointing to themselves as the reason, not any election ballot conspiracy. At least not yet.


Good point, and I give them credit for that.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 4:47:41 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

No justice no peace... that is a fact


No Juiced Ice.  No Peas.

Although I do visualize Whirled Peas when it is time to go to bed.

I suspect I am wrong on this one.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 4:52:52 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Nancy Pelosi said last night that the voters voted for a change in direction and they voted for the Democrats to effect that change. I couldn't agree more. But it's not just a change of policy. I think what was sought by the voting public was a change in the arrogance and hypocrisy shown in the last 12 years by Republicans. If the right wing arrogance is just replaced by left wing arrogance, they will not win the executive branch in 2008.


This diehard democrat agrees with you completely. I also think it's crucial that we Dems remember that the election was more an expression of disgust with Bush than a rallying around our agenda.

quote:

I will say this about the losing side. Unlike every election during the past 12 years, the Republicans thus far are pointing to themselves as the reason, not any election ballot conspiracy. At least not yet.


Good point, and I give them credit for that.



Dc, agreed.
On CNN they just had an interview with sen. John Kyl and he said;
"The American People sent us a wake-up call  to remind us just who's in charge."

(in reply to dcnovice)
Profile   Post #: 60
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