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RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 4:58:28 PM   
Sinergy


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Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

As much as I would like to see King George contempt for the constitution and the laws of this country officially exposed in the national and world light of an impeachment, the Democrats would be making a huge mistake doing it and need to care about the future and not the past.



Hello A/all,

While I like the olive branch handout paradigm a great deal, I have a problem with the idea of letting the Monkeyboy Crap-Bomb administration go unpunished.

Kenneth Lay ripped off thousands of people of their pensions and livelihoods and drove huge companies into bankruptcy, all the while getting rich in the process.

So a judge vacates his sentence because it is not nice to punish the dead.

Donkey twaddle.

What that judge did by vacating his sentence is insuring Lay's heirs cannot be sued to get those ill gotten gains that Daddy brought home.  In other words, people who worked all their lives to have that pension are now sent packing and Lay's heirs get to build their 239 room mansion in Aruba on money their father outright STOLE.

I think it is reprehensible.

In the case of Monkeyboy et al, if we hang a few of their heads on a bunch of nice pikes outside the White House, future presidencies may get the idea that the Americans have a point where they will put up with enough shenanigans from the people elected into power.  While I am not a gun fanatic, I want the people who we elect to our government to understand that they rule because we let them, not vice versa.

Monkeyboy has been breaking laws (cocaine, drunk driving, constitutional violations, etc) his entire life.  If it were anybody else he would giddily sign their death warrant and cheer as the house lights dimmed.  I think he is too old to be reformed, but I think he needs to learn what it feels like to face one's criminal misdeeds in a court of law.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 5:23:45 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

No justice no peace... that is a fact


Funny, you don't look Jamaican


I did not know one had to be Jamaican to be a fan of Bob Marley or to advocate for justice as a pathway to peace... I am not Jamaican, rastofarian, I am not a musician, nor am I a man BTW

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 9:30:27 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about this for a while.  You're probably right, Level, but then answer this: under what circumstances WOULD it be appropriate to impeach a president?  If lying about intelligence in order to provoke a war with a sovereign nation isn't an impeachable offense, I don't know what is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Lam, even if that's true, I believe the majority of people don't want to see anything that even remotely smells partisan. They don't want fighting, and arguing, "they're evil, watch us punish them". The public is tired of the divisiveness, and tired from Iraq and the hurricane season of 2005, they want our government to work together for posistive goals, not "I'm gonna getcha".
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Why?  Seems to me there is a lot more in the way of grounds for impeachment this time around than when they went after Clinton.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

The Democrats are fools if they even start talking about impeachment, fucking idiots if they proceed with it.



(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/8/2006 9:41:24 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

A Democratic Congress should;
1. Get us out of Iraq.
And don't take 2 years to do it.
2. Secure our border with Mexico and start enforcing our immigration laws. No country has ever survived without being able to control it's borders.
3. Stop all the outsourcing that is bleeding good paying jobs from here to overseas and get us out of NAFTA.
The big corporations are making a killing and the middle class is getting killed!
It's been 12 years now and NAFTA is a bigger misstake than ever!



Come on, what makes you think the Democratic party is all for that?

1. Stronger on Imigration Laws? Just like the repbulicans, the democrats are supported by rich corporations who only want to help the illegal imigrant earn a better life outside a third world country. They pay them to work for more than what they could get in there old country but less as a US citizen. The democrats who ran for election this year kept there mouths shut on the issue of imigration just as much as the republicans did. Besides, it's also cheaper to have there lawn work done by illegal imigrants. Who with money saving sense would want to give that up? 

2. Stop Outsourcing? How are they going to do that? The people who fund there campaigns want the favor of doing whatever they hell they want to with there own business. How is it constitutional to force someone and there business to stay in the US? Politicians are known for owning businesses as well. If needed, they want to keep the option to outsource.

As for NAFTA,  the US did take a bad bite with the deal but it was for the greater good. Did you really want to see the Mexican economy completly colapse? If that were to happen, the USA would have a larger illegal imigration problem.

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(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 12:19:25 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

I've been thinking about this for a while.  You're probably right, Level, but then answer this: under what circumstances WOULD it be appropriate to impeach a president?  If lying about intelligence in order to provoke a war with a sovereign nation isn't an impeachable offense, I don't know what is.


You of all people I would never expect this from. The vote that just ousted all of these war monger neocons wasn't one for peace and civility - That's rediculous!! It was one of vigorous opposition!!!!!

You're right.....with the way most of these country club fuckers work, they'll never be an impeachment, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't launch investigations and hold hearings so we can vilify these bastards in way to stop it from happening again.

We haven't held oversight and accountability hearings since Senator Wellstone parished; now is the perfect time to bring them back.



 - R

PS - It's the day after the election and the price at the pump here in the area I live has shot up eight cents a gallon.

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 11/9/2006 12:23:44 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 12:44:15 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
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quote:


As for NAFTA,  the US did take a bad bite with the deal but it was for the greater good. Did you really want to see the Mexican economy completly colapse? If that were to happen, the USA would have a larger illegal imigration problem.



Are you kidding me, Fangs? NAFTA is a national tragedy for the average Mexican citizen. It's created tremendous dislocation throughout the rural economic communities in Mexico. If they had the opportunity, the Mexican citizenry would vote it down by eighty percent. There's tons of articles out there that speak to depleasement and popular opinion.



 - R



_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:25:15 AM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
PS - It's the day after the election and the price at the pump here in the area I live has shot up eight cents a gallon.


Just wondering, is that a price increase or a return to pre-election prices?


_____________________________

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(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 4:55:34 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		NAFTA was the best thing to do at the time or atleast better than the alternitive of  seeing Mexico declare bankruptcy. There's no perfect plan to save Mexico except for its citizens to rise and mob its corrupt leaders much like the French Revolution.

People can bitch and point out flaws all they want but the bottom line is that people can still work and get an education in Mexico.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 9:26:55 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Dosent anyone in here read American history. You can go way back and find cover ups and screwups from most all of the presidents. Most of this shit is the people's fault. They vote on the persons name not their record. Until that changes nothing will change. The only good president we ever had was George Washington. Read his farewell address.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 9:53:00 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Dosent anyone in here read American history. You can go way back and find cover ups and screwups from most all of the presidents. Most of this shit is the people's fault. They vote on the persons name not their record. Until that changes nothing will change. The only good president we ever had was George Washington. Read his farewell address.

Denomyar:
I have read a bit of american history and the  disagreement I would have with your statement is that All ...not most presidents have been involved in lies scams coverups and corruption.
As for George Washington I would conceed that he was not a particularly bad president; he was, none the less, a murderer, a liar, a cheat and a thief.  On the upside he had the courage to do his own murdering face to face.
thompson

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 10:54:04 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

A Democratic Congress should;
1. Get us out of Iraq.
And don't take 2 years to do it.
2. Secure our border with Mexico and start enforcing our immigration laws. No country has ever survived without being able to control it's borders.
3. Stop all the outsourcing that is bleeding good paying jobs from here to overseas and get us out of NAFTA.
The big corporations are making a killing and the middle class is getting killed!
It's been 12 years now and NAFTA is a bigger misstake than ever!



Come on, what makes you think the Democratic party is all for that?

1. Stronger on Imigration Laws? Just like the repbulicans, the democrats are supported by rich corporations who only want to help the illegal imigrant earn a better life outside a third world country. They pay them to work for more than what they could get in there old country but less as a US citizen. The democrats who ran for election this year kept there mouths shut on the issue of imigration just as much as the republicans did. Besides, it's also cheaper to have there lawn work done by illegal imigrants. Who with money saving sense would want to give that up? 

2. Stop Outsourcing? How are they going to do that? The people who fund there campaigns want the favor of doing whatever they hell they want to with there own business. How is it constitutional to force someone and there business to stay in the US? Politicians are known for owning businesses as well. If needed, they want to keep the option to outsource.

As for NAFTA,  the US did take a bad bite with the deal but it was for the greater good. Did you really want to see the Mexican economy completly colapse? If that were to happen, the USA would have a larger illegal imigration problem.


Fangs, one problem with your reply.
We're paying the people in Washington to take care of our country, not to be looking out for the welfare of  foreign countries.
The people in Washington who we elect are supposed to be running our government, not a charity for foreign countries using our taxdollars.
Are you trying to say that there is no difference between the Republican and Democratic Partys?
As for companies having access to our market yes, I'm just "old fashioned" enough to think that if you want to sell it here, make it here.
Frankly, I really don't care what goes on in Mexico.
It's not my country.
Wether they "like it" or not it is the job of the people we elect to keep illegal aliens out of our country and to keep our borders secure.
As an Independant voter I just never bought into all that "globalism" stuff that the people who benefit from it the most are trying to tell us is so "good" for us.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 11/9/2006 11:05:48 AM >

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 11:22:25 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
PS - It's the day after the election and the price at the pump here in the area I live has shot up eight cents a gallon.


Just wondering, is that a price increase or a return to pre-election prices?



Good point - It's the beginning of a return to pre-election prices. { At least here in Oregon}


 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 12:55:01 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
Wether they "like it" or not it is the job of the people we elect to keep illegal aliens out of our country and to keep our borders secure.
As an Independant voter I just never bought into all that "globalism" stuff that the people who benefit from it the most are trying to tell us is so "good" for us.


I would say that it's the job of the government to ensure border security, while not cratering the economy of parts of the south. I'm excite about the chance that President Bush will now be able to pass his guest worker program.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:12:08 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Caitlyn, why would that "excite" you?

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:12:55 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		I just want to say as a reply to the Democratic Congress that I am thrilled, and much more hopeful about the future survival and prosperity of America, and the world.   I felt very ambivalent in voting against the republican senator Chafee in RI (because he's a good guy, who's voting record I actually support/like), but felt I had to because I could not support the damage that's been done to the US and the world by republican leadership in the last several years.

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I did not know one had to be Jamaican to be a fan of Bob Marley or to advocate for justice as a pathway to peace...
I didn't get that either...  I thought, or maybe hoped, one just needed a conscience and some common sense to realize we're not wild animals trying to kill off our prey, but actual humans seeking to be better by doing better for everyone.   Indeed without justice, there will never be peace.   M 

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""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:39:51 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I would say that it's the job of the government to ensure border security, while not cratering the economy of parts of the south. I'm excite about the chance that President Bush will now be able to pass his guest worker program.


Regarding statement one, this is rather an old argument, forwarded sometime around the time of the early to mid-1800s regarding other foreign folk--  it was also assumed at that time that the poor south was unable to support themselves without unique legislation that would grant them their 'peculiar institutions'; incidentally there is one thing here that is quite different, it seems that there was no talk of any minimum wage in those days for those folks, but now at least the congress is; 'for good and valid reasons', refusing to consider the changing of the statute, now that it's on the books...so I guess some progress has been made in the intervening years. 

Dred Scott  

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:46:13 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well, Ron and Popeye, you can discount my point of view, on one condition. You have to agree to shut the fuck up until I graduate from college, so I can buy that 200K house I really want, without paying 450K for it. After that, you can do whatever you want ... I can learn to deal with the ninty-three cent grapefruit.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 1:48:57 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		OK, (well kinda)--- but you must clue me into the reference to the 93 cent grapefruit.........

(Oh, god, let it be something kinky involving me and caitlyn.........please, god----help me through this one and I promise I will help myself thru the next one)

Your Obedient Servant,
Ron

and to clear something up, while I often disagree with some of your stances, I in no way discount your opinions or statements.........in terms of any number of people they are valid.........and in fact, there are cases where I totally supported your opinions.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/9/2006 1:50:52 PM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 2:04:51 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Don't you want to call me a fascist, or Miss Know it All?
 
How about Mexiphobic?
 
The agra economy in south Texas is supported by cheap labor from Mexico, mostly illegals. My state would take a huge hit without these workers ... there just aren't American citizens in the RGV, willing to do this work. A guest worker program is a perfect solution here in Texas. It may not work everywhere, but many have said all along that this is a regional issue and can't be painted with a broad brush. What's good for California may not be good for Texas, and vice versa. We need to let the states make the call on this one, and remove Washington politics from this issue.
 
My opinion, to be sure.

< Message edited by caitlyn -- 11/9/2006 2:05:51 PM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: A Democratic Congress - 11/9/2006 2:35:47 PM   
shtrbg


Posts: 28
Joined: 3/16/2005
Status: offline 		Where as lying cheating stealing treason, and fearmongering are not impeachable.  Apparently a cum stained dress is.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
Profile   Post #: 80
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