RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (Full Version)

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Footslaveman -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 4:40:03 PM)

The United States has already voted for female Supremacy. The new Congress is made up of more Women than ever. In two Years the white House will be occupied by the biggest Female Supremacist.[X(] ever. Whemn She takes occupancy the American male will assume his proper place, on his knees behind the Queen  who's selected him.



Level -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 4:50:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslaveman

The United States has already voted for female Supremacy. The new Congress is made up of more Women than ever. In two Years the white House will be occupied by the biggest Female Supremacist.[X(] ever. Whemn She takes occupancy the American male will assume his proper place, on his knees behind the Queen  who's selected him.


So, Bill will basically be hiding behind Hillary when the bullets start to fly?



Najakcharmer -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 4:54:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I have a problem with anyone who publicly states females are superior to males...and wants to keep males in horse pens.


If the adult males in question WANT to be kept in horse pens, why should anyone else have a problem with it? 

I respect my brothers and sisters in the BDSM community, whether they are male, female, gay, straight, transgender, dominant, submissive or some combination of these things.  Whether the person with the whip has the "innie" or the "outie" matters far less to me then whether they are a decent human being whom I can be proud to call my brother or sister in leather.  We are all members of the same tribe of leatherfolk, and what we can share as a community is a hell of a lot more important than squabbling over whose orientation is better than whose.  

The Christian Right is awfully well organized and they would love to see our rights taken away from us, and our children too.  As a community, we have knowledge and we have power.  Together we can share crucial information about safety and technique, offer support to newcomers and stand behind the activists, lawyers and politicians who help defend our rights.  We can accomplish real things in the real world that benefit all of us.

Or we can waste time and energy backbiting and bitching about how all the male doms or all the female doms are really doing it wrong, yadda yadda, everyone should be doing it the One True Way, etc etc.  While we are busy yelling insults at one another like little kids on a playground, the Christian Right will have successfully lobbied away a few more of our rights and wrecked a few more lives and families in our community.

Doesn't matter what the One True Way is that you're lobbying for.  If you are actively disrespecting or excluding any part of the BDSM community because their orientation is different from yours, then you're getting in the way of the folks who are trying to protect all of our rights to practice consensual BDSM.  Don't blame anyone but yourself when the shit hits the fan, you no longer have the right to practice any kind of kink in your state, and nobody managed to stop it because half the community refuses to work with the other half.

I guess folks have the right to believe whatever they want to believe in their personal lives and relationships, but I think that if you cross the line to actively disrespecting people in the BDSM community whose orientation is not the same as yours, that is not a good thing.  It is remarkably silly and counterproductive to argue about whether femdom is better or male dom is better.  What are the objective standards for "better", anyhow?   Some folks like apples and some folks like oranges, and it strikes me as pretty goddam stupid to try to tell the folks who like apples that everyone should really be eating oranges because oranges are better.  I'm perfectly happy to enjoy my apples and let the folks who prefer oranges have my share.  I have better ways to spend my time than to lobby against orange-eating and insult people who eat oranges because I like apples better, and since I like them better, they must be better for everybody. 

But I guess some people don't have better ways to spend their time, ergo these repeated threads on the subject.





Morrigel -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 4:56:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, Bill will basically be hiding behind Hillary when the bullets start to fly?


What else is new?

--M



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 4:58:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
I think if anyone truly interested should do a forum serach on this. We've beat this drum over and over. There were some good replies and definitions on how many of us feel.


Given the prominence you hold towards female supremacy, I am interested to hear your take on it. You have some interesting ideas in your interview (spirituality and BDSM) and in other posts. And I can appreciate what you say about female supremacy and the activities in which you engage from a BDSM point of view. When female supremacy is extended to the entire population and is tied to female superiority is when I am unable to connect with the idea. I would appreciate it if you would clarify how you feel.

Do you feel female supremacy is for only those who enjoy it, or do you think the world should be run by women with men taking a secondary status? I find a mixed message across your writings and am unclear on how you feel.

Do you feel women are superior to men? If so, would you please share the thoughts behind this position. The spirit of this question is to understand the intellectual basis behind this position.

Cheers,

Sea



Lordandmaster -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 6:08:59 PM)

You're kidding, right?

Morrigel, I really think you need to look around a bit before you spout your cocksure opinions.  It's not as though I haven't already told you about debates in the Gorean forum.  If you were really interested, you could have gone over there and read what has happened over the past 12-18 months.

But no, you don't want to take the trouble; you're more interested in accusing people of bias, and if you were to find out more inconvenient facts, that would be a lot harder for you to do.

It hasn't taken you very long to become a one-string fiddle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

And really, I'm wondering--if supremacist ideas in general are a problem, then why aren't you over trumpeting in the Gor forum?



orfunboi -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 7:22:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi
You want to see a male supremacist site, trot over to the Gor boards and take a look around.


Gor is indeed based on male supremacy, and is lifestyle or kink based on a series of fantasy books. It is also frowned upon and considered a stepchild of BDSM by many. I myself do not subscribe to Gor because of the rigid roles it assigns.

So I think your reference to Gor does not help to make an argument for female supremacy.

On that note, what do you see to be different between Gor and female supremacy aside from the swap of gender roles?

Cheers,

Sea


i did not reference Gor to make an argument for female supremacy..you said  "We all know all of these "female supremacists" would be the first ones to be insulted if a male were to start a male supremacist site"

and i just pointed out that one already existed.



gooddogbenji -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 7:25:07 PM)

And, apparently, a few of the Female supremacists have taken the attitude "I need not like it, and can say what I want of it, provided I add the 'they have a right to be here' suffix."

Yours,


benji

Edited because, apparently, the whole spelling thing went out the window along with the feminist movement.



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 7:49:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi
i did not reference Gor to make an argument for female supremacy..you said  "We all know all of these "female supremacists" would be the first ones to be insulted if a male were to start a male supremacist site"

and i just pointed out that one already existed.


I do recall seeing the text in blue. However, that comment was made by someone else.

Cheers,

Sea



Sissypinky -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 9:58:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

Doesn't matter what the One True Way is that you're lobbying for.  If you are actively disrespecting or excluding any part of the BDSM community because their orientation is different from yours, then you're getting in the way of the folks who are trying to protect all of our rights to practice consensual BDSM.  Don't blame anyone but yourself when the shit hits the fan, you no longer have the right to practice any kind of kink in your state, and nobody managed to stop it because half the community refuses to work with the other half.

I guess folks have the right to believe whatever they want to believe in their personal lives and relationships, but I think that if you cross the line to actively disrespecting people in the BDSM community whose orientation is not the same as yours, that is not a good thing.  It is remarkably silly and counterproductive to argue about whether femdom is better or male dom is better.  What are the objective standards for "better", anyhow?   Some folks like apples and some folks like oranges, and it strikes me as pretty goddam stupid to try to tell the folks who like apples that everyone should really be eating oranges because oranges are better.  I'm perfectly happy to enjoy my apples and let the folks who prefer oranges have my share.  I have better ways to spend my time than to lobby against orange-eating and insult people who eat oranges because I like apples better, and since I like them better, they must be better for everybody. 

But I guess some people don't have better ways to spend their time, ergo these repeated threads on the subject.




Ma'am you make alot of sense.   I love thems apples, may I get one Please?



Sissypinky -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/13/2006 10:05:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissypinky

I dont know if women are superior morally and ethically but biolgically, intellectually, sexually and emotionally they are superior.


I appreciate your post in that it provides the criteria for assigning superiority and explains the intellectual basis of your position, which allows intelligent discussion.  

I see the question at hand to be whether one sex is superoir to another and whether one sex should be given a second-class role to the other. I don't think your argument makes a case towards this question. NO I DONT SEE IT AS IF ONE SEX SHOULD BE SECOND CLASS OR NOT.  I SEE IT AS WOMEN BEING SUPERIOR IN MANY AREAS.  PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

Some points you make seem to have basis (biological resilience). Several do not really convey a point about superiority (eg. hairloss). Some seem incidental (eg. suicide rate--is it caused by biology, or culture and circumstances?). And your arguments seems unobjective because it only covers one half of the story about relative advantages.
THAT IS YOUR OPINION.  YOU THINK WHAT YOU WANT.  IM NOT GOING TO CHAMPION MINE TO DEATH. I HAVE MINE OWN OPINION AND WOMEN RULE!  THEY ARE SUPERIOR IN MANY MANY WAYS.  WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH MY OPINION???  WHY CANT YOU JUST LET ME REJOICE IN MY BELIEF AND PROCLAIM IT IN A MISTRESS FORUM.  WHY DO YOU HAVE TO RAIN ON MY PARADE AND BEAT THIS DOWN.  WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU?????   SOMEONE GET THIS MONKEY OFF MY BACK (NOT YOU - JUST A GENERAL STATEMEMT).  BELIEVE YOURS.  LET ME BELIEVE MINE.  WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR TO ME.  I AM NOT THREATENED BY THAT NOR AM I THREATENED BY YOUR BELIEFS.  LET ME BE. 




Morrigel -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 12:35:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

It's not as though I haven't already told you about debates in the Gorean forum.  If you were really interested, you could have gone over there and read what has happened over the past 12-18 months.


Sorry, Daddy-o, but I really am NOT interested.  And I am going to have to take your word for it about what goes on at the Gor forums, now and historically.  I was raised not to be rude and obstructive to people who were enjoying themselves productively and doing no one else harm.  That's why I don't walk into churches on Sunday morning with a dead possum in my purse or go to the Republican national convention with a megaphone so I can scream "BLAH BLAH BLAH" every time someone tries to give a speech.

By extension, I try not to go to read posts in a forum that I know I'm going to find offensive.  The people there enjoy being there, and are enjoying their discussions.  That's good enough for me.

quote:

But no, you don't want to take the trouble; you're more interested in accusing people of bias, and if you were to find out more inconvenient facts, that would be a lot harder for you to do.


The inconvenient fact, which you constantly avoid confronting, is that you are HERE.  And that Goreans have an entire forum to enjoy their fantasies and work out the permutations therof.  Whereas this is one thread, which doesn't even have any femme supremacist rhetoric in it!

The mere subject, being engaged tangentially by the posting of a blog on another site entirely, is enough to bring you out waving your trunk around.

There aren't any facts more "inconvenient" than this.  You don't want to be ruled by women?  Dandy.  Why don't you just go flog some nice girl's ass and mind your own business?  There are obviously women AND men in the world who enjoy the femme-supremacist fantasy lifestyle--and who might enjoy talking about it or mentioning it occasionally without having it immediately hyper-politicized and attacked by those who find it emotionally threatening.

As for me being a one-string violin--sorry you feel that way.  I personally feel that the attitudes toward women of all orientations--dominant, susmissive, switch, whatever--could use some work, both in this society generally and on this website in particular.  On the other hand, regardless of what you think of my views or agenda to this effect, if you were actually interested in "inconvenient" facts, you might actually try pulling your head out of your ass.  Take a good look around and realize where the hell you are posting.  And where I have a tendency to post, especially in the argumentative mode.

Take note:  I really don't spend a lot of time on threads or in forums about male authority, male dominance, or male supremacist fantasies, anywhere on this site.  Especially in the mode of putting any of those fantasies down or condemning the men and women who enjoy them in their personal lives.  I have zero problem whatsoever with men dominating women:  including beating them with various objects, "raping" them, pissing in their faces, calling them names, branding and tattooing them, lording it over them, yadda yadda yadda--so long as the women involved are there because they want to be, and are happy!

The fact that none of those things would make ME happy, personally, is irrelevant.  No one cares and no should have to care.  The fact that I am a femme domme does not invalidate the existence or the desires of the femme sub--no matter how far she wants to go into her submission, even if it takes her into kajira-land.  And by extension, her desires do not invalidate mine.  She is not what all women "should" be or "must" be--neither am I. 

This society and this forum have a long way to go before men and women will accept and embrace male submission and female dominance to the degree that I accept the contrary.  And the lack of acceptance is harming a great many people, male and female--make no mistake on this score.  The number of male submissives I see who are over 30 and have never been married or engaged in a long-term positive relationship is overwhelming.  Many men are living very lonely, very sad lives because they cannot find a dominant woman who understands her natural place in the scheme of things and who accepts the responsibility and the joy of being in control.

--M



orfunboi -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 3:38:12 AM)

Then maybe you should have read the post i was refering to, before assuming you knew what i meant.



DiannaVesta -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 5:29:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
I think if anyone truly interested should do a forum serach on this. We've beat this drum over and over. There were some good replies and definitions on how many of us feel.


Given the prominence you hold towards female supremacy, I am interested to hear your take on it. You have some interesting ideas in your interview (spirituality and BDSM) and in other posts. And I can appreciate what you say about female supremacy and the activities in which you engage from a BDSM point of view. When female supremacy is extended to the entire population and is tied to female superiority is when I am unable to connect with the idea. I would appreciate it if you would clarify how you feel.

Do you feel female supremacy is for only those who enjoy it, or do you think the world should be run by women with men taking a secondary status? I find a mixed message across your writings and am unclear on how you feel.

Do you feel women are superior to men? If so, would you please share the thoughts behind this position. The spirit of this question is to understand the intellectual basis behind this position.

Cheers,

Sea


I covered this several time here already. That’s why I suggested a search through the forums. I try to make as much time as possible in the forums, here and mine, however my time is limited & why repeat myself when a quick search would reveal what I’ve already said.

  I’m not trying to be rude.

  In MY perfect world women would be in charge, yes, that is what would suit me; however I’m not delusional in thinking that it is or can be. Are people equal? No. Do people live that illusion? Oh yeah. I believe female supremacy is an ideal and people adopt aspects of it as a guide for their lifestyle. You keep looking at the negatives based on the word “Supremacy” rather then trying to understand what it means in its entire context. Instead you have this “show me, prove me” attitude without ever being receptive to know what it really is. Its like standing in front of Jerry Farwell trying to prove to him that kinky sex is great when he already has a stiff agenda against premarital sex and bdsm is the devils work.


  I believe that when feminine energy becomes the priority instead of the minority, it is co-creative. Do all women have this? No but they can. We have great sexual power when we discover it & use it properly. When we are placed primary- adored and worshipped (really not just words) they chisel away layers of patriarchal CRUD and reveal the brilliant facets of their nature.
  When a man learns to love and adore her this special way they both create a type of magic that is peaceful and harmonious. No, this isn’t for all men but I think that all men, at some point in their life turns to a strong woman. He is drawn to the sexual power of women and is forever trying to own/take it. Of course I don’t expect you to really understand this but I ask you to reflect more deeply why you are here in the first place.


  Try to get away from the word Supremacy. Should I change it? No because it’s meant to invoke emotion. Is it merely just a sexual kinky? Hell no but we understand our sexual power, we are open minded and gather under the umbrella of BDSM, as do many, to seek support & the right to choose the lifestyle we want to live.


  Really in a nutshell FS is about the woman being head of household and the man allowing this to happen. He has a choice but prefer to place her primary. It is feminine authority, so to speak and many people find this to balance their lives.


I'm not as radical as I appear. I fit into the world just fine. I have my personal convictions & how I chose to live my private life. I simply provide a hallway for those who feel as I do.



DiannaVesta -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 5:38:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Take note:  I really don't spend a lot of time on threads or in forums about male authority, male dominance, or male supremacist fantasies, anywhere on this site.  Especially in the mode of putting any of those fantasies down or condemning the men and women who enjoy them in their personal lives.  I have zero problem whatsoever with men dominating women:  including beating them with various objects, "raping" them, pissing in their faces, calling them names, branding and tattooing them, lording it over them, yadda yadda yadda--so long as the women involved are there because they want to be, and are happy!
--M


I’m with you. I rarely even go into the BDSM general forum because I am into female domination and come here. This doesn’t mean I don’t respect the choices of others. I’ve gone and even posted in the Ask master forum once because I was curious about some things. They were all very polite and I met some wonderful men. We don’t share views, per se but what we do have in common is “live and let live”.
  In my heart I can honestly say this with clear conscious… I love all people and I am happy for whatever path they choose to walk if it brings them fulfillment, purpose and is consensual. Regardless of what we do we should all be kind to one another even if it means calling someone a worthless peice of shit BECAUSE it turns them on.




Lordandmaster -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 6:55:33 AM)

Yeah, and as usual, you'd like me to be the culprit for this.  In fact, I don't think you're going to find a single negative opinion from me.  Go back and look.  (Of course I know you won't; you're too busy rectifying society to check your facts.)  The sum total of what I've said in this thread is that (a) the blog is poorly edited and (b) "female supremacy" is a misleading term if all it means is "giving women a chance to determine their own lives."  I've also tried to clear up your misconceptions about the Gorean forum, about which you feel authorized to say whatever you wish, even though you admit you don't read it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

This society and this forum have a long way to go before men and women will accept and embrace male submission and female dominance to the degree that I accept the contrary.  And the lack of acceptance is harming a great many people, male and female--make no mistake on this score.  The number of male submissives I see who are over 30 and have never been married or engaged in a long-term positive relationship is overwhelming.  Many men are living very lonely, very sad lives because they cannot find a dominant woman who understands her natural place in the scheme of things and who accepts the responsibility and the joy of being in control.



thetammyjo -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 6:57:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslaveman

The United States has already voted for female Supremacy. The new Congress is made up of more Women than ever. In two Years the white House will be occupied by the biggest Female Supremacist.[X(] ever. Whemn She takes occupancy the American male will assume his proper place, on his knees behind the Queen who's selected him.


Are you smoking something or taking drugs?

You can talk to me about female supremacy in any government when women make up the majority of the authority for a few hundred years.



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:14:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: orfunboi
Then maybe you should have read the post i was refering to, before assuming you knew what i meant.


I did read the post to which you responded since you had quoted it in its entirety.

And perhaps I did make an assumption about what you meant. When you came in to oppose a post that says female superiority goes against principles of inequality, your post came across as supporting female superiority by saying that such inequality already exists.

The point of your post is still a bit unclear to me. If you would like to clarify why then you made that post, by all means do so.

It is fair for me to correct you if you incorrectly assign a quote to me. That point is independent of whatever meaning you had in your prior post.

Cheers,

Sea



jimbo747 -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:45:45 AM)

the woman lord decribes is someone else  not you.  strong confident women scare the bigEZ out of him Dont listen to his false accusations. your nothing like to cries about.



jimbo747 -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:46:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta
I think if anyone truly interested should do a forum serach on this. We've beat this drum over and over. There were some good replies and definitions on how many of us feel.


Given the prominence you hold towards female supremacy, I am interested to hear your take on it. You have some interesting ideas in your interview (spirituality and BDSM) and in other posts. And I can appreciate what you say about female supremacy and the activities in which you engage from a BDSM point of view. When female supremacy is extended to the entire population and is tied to female superiority is when I am unable to connect with the idea. I would appreciate it if you would clarify how you feel.

Do you feel female supremacy is for only those who enjoy it, or do you think the world should be run by women with men taking a secondary status? I find a mixed message across your writings and am unclear on how you feel.

Do you feel women are superior to men? If so, would you please share the thoughts behind this position. The spirit of this question is to understand the intellectual basis behind this position.

Cheers,

Sea


I covered this several time here already. That’s why I suggested a search through the forums. I try to make as much time as possible in the forums, here and mine, however my time is limited & why repeat myself when a quick search would reveal what I’ve already said.

I’m not trying to be rude.

In MY perfect world women would be in charge, yes, that is what would suit me; however I’m not delusional in thinking that it is or can be. Are people equal? No. Do people live that illusion? Oh yeah. I believe female supremacy is an ideal and people adopt aspects of it as a guide for their lifestyle. You keep looking at the negatives based on the word “Supremacy” rather then trying to understand what it means in its entire context. Instead you have this “show me, prove me” attitude without ever being receptive to know what it really is. Its like standing in front of Jerry Farwell trying to prove to him that kinky sex is great when he already has a stiff agenda against premarital sex and bdsm is the devils work.


I believe that when feminine energy becomes the priority instead of the minority, it is co-creative. Do all women have this? No but they can. We have great sexual power when we discover it & use it properly. When we are placed primary- adored and worshipped (really not just words) they chisel away layers of patriarchal CRUD and reveal the brilliant facets of their nature.
When a man learns to love and adore her this special way they both create a type of magic that is peaceful and harmonious. No, this isn’t for all men but I think that all men, at some point in their life turns to a strong woman. He is drawn to the sexual power of women and is forever trying to own/take it. Of course I don’t expect you to really understand this but I ask you to reflect more deeply why you are here in the first place.


Try to get away from the word Supremacy. Should I change it? No because it’s meant to invoke emotion. Is it merely just a sexual kinky? Hell no but we understand our sexual power, we are open minded and gather under the umbrella of BDSM, as do many, to seek support & the right to choose the lifestyle we want to live.


Really in a nutshell FS is about the woman being head of household and the man allowing this to happen. He has a choice but prefer to place her primary. It is feminine authority, so to speak and many people find this to balance their lives.


I'm not as radical as I appear. I fit into the world just fine. I have my personal convictions & how I chose to live my private life. I simply provide a hallway for those who feel as I do.



*applause



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