RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (Full Version)

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MisPandora -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:51:18 AM)

(fast reply)

Holy shitballs folks!

Do you all see yourselves fighting over each others little corners of kink?

Some don't like crossdressing FOR THEM.
Some don't like fem supremes FOR THEM.
Some don't like masculine men FOR THEM.
Some don't like things like eating poo, bukkake or golden showers FOR THEM.
It doesn't mean it's WRONG, IMMORAL or should be banned from google forever and ever, amen.

Are we that frickin narrow-minded and insecure with our own kinks and selves that we can't just respect each other's right to be DIFFERENT because that's what makes us individuals.......or do we need to keep slinging mud in the SM-gutter that we've created here?



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:00:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissypinky

NO I DONT SEE IT AS IF ONE SEX SHOULD BE SECOND CLASS OR NOT.  I SEE IT AS WOMEN BEING SUPERIOR IN MANY AREAS.  PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THAT IS YOUR OPINION.  YOU THINK WHAT YOU WANT.  IM NOT GOING TO CHAMPION MINE TO DEATH. I HAVE MINE OWN OPINION AND WOMEN RULE!  THEY ARE SUPERIOR IN MANY MANY WAYS.  WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH MY OPINION???  WHY CANT YOU JUST LET ME REJOICE IN MY BELIEF AND PROCLAIM IT IN A MISTRESS FORUM.  WHY DO YOU HAVE TO RAIN ON MY PARADE AND BEAT THIS DOWN.  WHY IS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU?????   SOMEONE GET THIS MONKEY OFF MY BACK (NOT YOU - JUST A GENERAL STATEMEMT).  BELIEVE YOURS.  LET ME BELIEVE MINE.  WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR TO ME.  I AM NOT THREATENED BY THAT NOR AM I THREATENED BY YOUR BELIEFS.  LET ME BE. 


I am not singling out your belief but responded to you as one person part of a discussion. The idea of gender superiority does not appeal to me intellectually. So naturally I am curious what basis someone has to hold this belief. You attempted to provide this basis but I saw it to be without sound footing. If you come to argue your point with information to support it, it makes sense that that you be able to stand behind that information or provide information that has a stronger basis. As it stands, you provide an unconvincing argument and then dramatically complain when it is questioned.

If you think my opinion is wrong and your points do have a stronger basis, argue against the points of my opinion. Your post here seems to be instead directed at me. When I responded to your post, I did not direct it at you but against the points you made.

I have a live-and-let-live attitude towards consensual activities within kink. At some level, I enjoy female supremacy. I do not need to see the other person as inherently or genetically superior to assume a subordinate role. I may engage in principles of female superiority within my own dynamic or at a place where all have agreed to share that dynamic. I think it is fine to have places like the OWK so long as persons engaging in it are doing so consensually.

When you make a blanket statement about superiority, you take it beyond people who are engaging in your belief. And a blanket claim to superiority seems to me to be similar in principle to claims of male superiority and race-based superiority. I cannot resolve why one is fair and the other is not. Can you?

It is fair of me to speak against a belief that I feel contradicts a fundamental principle and especially one that applies to me. If you post on what you know to be a controversial topic in a manner where you assign your belief (that you are inferior to all women because of your sex) onto others in a manner that does step on their space, you should be prepared for disagreement. If you can find a way to celebrate your belief without imposing it on others, by all means do so.

Incidentally, use of caps when typing is considered bad etiquette. There are other ways to set apart your text from that of others.

Cheers,

Sea



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:06:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta


Thank you for your response. These are the types of thoughts I was hoping you would share. I must run now but will respond in a similar spirit at a later sitting.

Cheers,

Sea



Morrigel -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:38:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Yeah, and as usual, you'd like me to be the culprit for this. 


Lol...sorry, man.  If this is the crux of the problem, we obviously haven't got one.  If you assume that I have some personal beef against you, I don't:  I don't know you and I don't have a mad on for you personally.  There are facets of the world or the forum that rub my fur the wrong way from time to time, and I will say something about them if I please, but I don't have any individual scapegoat for these things. 

Of course...if you really ENJOY being blamed...I would be happy to arrange a Crucifixion scene for you in which you can be punished for all the sins of Malekind.  That could be hot--you get to be the ultimate icon of masculinity, wear a titulus, the whole deal.  And I get to pick out a cute toga.  Woo-woo!  [:D]

--M



Sissypinky -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:42:07 AM)

Why you feel threatened?  Why do you take it personally that I am as you say "stepping into your space".   You write about yourself that its "fair of me [you] to speak against a belief...." so why cant I write my belief and IT ALSO be fair?  It would seem more sensible to write my beliefs that women are superior in a Mistress forum than for you to state they arent superior.  How am I imposing my belief on you by experssing Women are superior in a Mistress forum postss about "women superiority"?   Its interesting that you feel so threatened and are taking my belief so personally.  Why is that?  I dont feel YOU are imposing your belief that women arent superior on me so why are you so concerned that I am stepping on you?  Im not the one seeking to debate you.  I simply come in and support the thread with my belief.

It is not my intention to arque with you because I do not care that you beleive women are not superior.  I do not care. i do not care. I dont not care what you believe and have no desire to win you over with mine.  Those who seek to debate seek to win.  I do not care to win.  I do not care to change your mind.   I like apples you like oranges.  Is does NOT matter to me the diffference in preference. IF I like bigger type womans and you like skinney would you make me over and over debate why?  Cant I simply like larger type womans and that would be good enough.  you seem combative in a passive way because I feel you're on my back and wont let me rejoice my opininon that women are superior in a mistress forum.   Get off my back.  Stop caring so much to debate with me.  I have a right to like what I like.  Leave me alone.  I do  not care to go over and over and over and over with you back and forth.  You will not change your viewpoint on the subject and I will not change mine.  Allow me to celebrate my belief that women are superior.  your not going to change my mind.  again i do not seek to win anything with you or to prove anytying to you.  you cant seem to accept i believe women are suprior.  why?  because you believe otherwise.  fantastic.  Me, I beleive women are superior.  I see it all around.  They are wonderous, beautiful, lovely, kind, intutive, powerful, motherly, etc... women as a whole are superior.  if you dont agree fine.  i dont care to change your mind.  the fact that I believe my opinion is enough.  prove to me that you love.  can you really prove yoru arquememt that you can love?  no but you certainly FEEL it in your heart.  i listed some reasons already and you took them and discounted them.  what more do you want?  i FEEL it in my heart and in my bones.  THAT is good enough for me.  I await your expected last word reply.  Here's my last word-in my eyes women are superior.  I am not threatened by women's superiority I am humbled by it!  WOMEN you all rules in my eyes.



LaTigresse -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:44:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: daiseytheone
These guys really do sound bitter, don't they realize what they sound like?


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
They're just askeered and being snarky is the result.[;)]


I am interested to hear your views about the matter beyond these statements. I am interested to know if you are for it or against it and, more importantly, why you feel as you do.

Cheers,

Sea


Sea, I just spent almost an hour writing out this long well thought out reply and when I went to hit enter it told me I had timed out and I lost the whole bloody thing!

I don't have time to redo it right now but I will respond.



DiannaVesta -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 9:22:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: daiseytheone
These guys really do sound bitter, don't they realize what they sound like?


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
They're just askeered and being snarky is the result.[;)]


I am interested to hear your views about the matter beyond these statements. I am interested to know if you are for it or against it and, more importantly, why you feel as you do.

Cheers,

Sea


Sea, I just spent almost an hour writing out this long well thought out reply and when I went to hit enter it told me I had timed out and I lost the whole bloody thing!

I don't have time to redo it right now but I will respond.



Oh you need to type it in a word processor like MS Word then copy and paste.



LaTigresse -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 11:22:46 AM)

Yeahhhhh, I kinda thought about that after the fact. [:D]



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 5:41:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: undergroundsea

quote:

ORIGINAL: daiseytheone
These guys really do sound bitter, don't they realize what they sound like?


quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
They're just askeered and being snarky is the result.[;)]


I am interested to hear your views about the matter beyond these statements. I am interested to know if you are for it or against it and, more importantly, why you feel as you do.

Cheers,

Sea


Sea, I just spent almost an hour writing out this long well thought out reply and when I went to hit enter it told me I had timed out and I lost the whole bloody thing!

I don't have time to redo it right now but I will respond.


Bummer :( I am sorry you lost that post. Thank you for taking the time to respond and I look forward to your comments.

Cheers,

Sea



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:03:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissypinky


I am not threatened by you. I have not asked you to abandon your interest in female supremacy. I have told you that I disagree with what you say and asked for substance behind your belief.

You can feel inferior to your own shadow and celebrate that belief all you want. But when you pull me into your sense of inferiority by extending your belief to all men, I will disagree and call you on that.

Your own analogy fails you. It is perfectly fine for you to like one type of woman and for me to like another. However, it is not fine when you say all men like the type of woman you like.  If you say all men like the type of woman you like, it will not cause them to do so. Still, for you to say so would be wrong and you may be called for it. It would not be because they are threatened by your statement. It's because you make a statement about them which is not true. That is what you are doing here--you are taking your belief (that you want to position yourself to be inferior to women) and extending it to all men (that all men are inferior to women).

This is a thread, not a poll where everyone simply comes and posts their preference; yay, I like female supremacy; boo, I don't like it; yay, I like it also; boo, I don't like it either. There is nothing wrong if I voice my opinion on a matter in the forums in agreement or disagreement and engage with others while doing so. I can especially do so if the matter conflicts with my fundamental beliefs, and if the matter speaks against me. If you can't handle debate, don't enter it. If you cannot explain your belief because you simply feel it in your bones or simply cannot articulate it, fair enough. Say that instead of giving a list of reasons you think men are inferior, and then saying you simply feel it in your bones when your rationale is questioned. You entered the debate by providing this list.

Your logic about who can say what is circular and flawed. You can say something that is a generalization that includes me, but it is unreasonable of me to respond to disagree? I should just read your words (the initiating action), and do yoga and cheer for you or something. But when I write to disagree (a reaction to your action), it's as if you have poison ivy on your toilet paper.

I can indeed articulate through words that I love. Men can think women are wonderous without invoking superiority and inferiority. Men can love and worship women without feeling inferior.

Cheers,

Sea



Sissypinky -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 7:35:41 PM)

Hey get this.  Women are superior.  :)

My logic is not flawed.  I can turn it around and say your logic and opinion is wrong to.  Which I hadnt.  You are the one fighting over opinions.  You cant live with a difference in opinion.    This forum isnt jsut here for what you say. It's to share opinions as well.     We discuss to understand each other's point of view but back and forth debate, on the other hand, is  to promote one's self and the goal of isn’t to determine truth, but to win an argument.  Here we are talking matters of opinion.  Arquments exist for both sides. Ive been clear its my opinion and Ive been careful not to tell you your view is wrong.  Ive stated some of my reasons and you picked them apart to support yours.  But fundamentally it's my opinion and my right.  Deal with it.  Truly do not seek to enter into a prolonged arqument about if women are superior.  I beleive they are and never said you should too.  It's not your job to correct everything you dont agree with and its not mine either.  You will fail to change anyone's opinion on anything and going over and over if my opinion is more valid than yours in useless.  In my world women aer superior.  Dont like my feelings?  Stay outta my world.



Sissypinky -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:12:32 PM)


You can feel inferior to your own shadow and celebrate that belief all you want. But when you pull me into your sense of inferiority by extending your belief to all men, I will disagree and call you on that.

I DIDNT SAY ALL MEN BELIEVE WHAT I BELIEVE. DONT PUT WORDS IN MYMOUTH.

Your own analogy fails you.
yOUR ANALOGY FAILS YOU.

It is perfectly fine for you to like one type of woman and for me to like another. However, it is not fine when you say all men like the type of woman you like. 
I DIDNT SAY ALL MEN. AT LEAST NOT ALL REAL MEN :)

That is what you are doing here--you are taking your belief (that you want to position yourself to be inferior to women) and extending it to all men (that all men are inferior to women). 

AHHA,  I SEE CLEAR WHY YOU ARE DEBATING AN OPINION OF SOMEONE ELSE.  YOU THINK I AM SAYING YOU ARE INFERIOR.  NOW I SEE WHY YOU SEEM TO TAKE THIS PERSONALLY.  MY OPINION AFFECTS YOU AND YOUR OPINION ON YOU.  DONT LET IT.

This is a thread, not a poll where everyone simply comes and posts their preference. 

OH NO?  CHECK THIS OUT SONNY WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR THATS MY PREFERENCE AND IM STICKIN TO IT.


If you can't handle debate, don't enter it.

I CAN AND I KNOW WHEN ITS USELESS TO DEBATE OVER OPINIONS.

If you cannot explain your belief because you simply feel it in your bones or simply cannot articulate it, fair enough. Say that instead of giving a list of reasons MY LIST OF REASON IS THE REASON I FEEL IT IN ME BONES.  you think men are inferior, and then saying you simply feel it in your bones when your rationale is questioned. You entered the debate by providing this list.
AND?

Your logic about who can say what is circular and flawed.

YOUR LOGIC IS FLAWED.

You can say something that is a generalization that includes me, but it is unreasonable of me to respond to disagree?

DISAGREE BUT DONT EXPECT TO CHANGE MY MIND.

I should just read your words (the initiating action), and do yoga and cheer for you or something. But when I write to disagree (a reaction to your action), it's as if you have poison ivy on your toilet paper.

YOUR OPINION

I can indeed articulate through words that I love.

BUT YOU STILL CANT PROVE IT TO ME IF I DISAGREE AND WOULD YOU EVEN TRY TO?  NO IT WOULD BE  USELESS.  THAT WAS MY POINT.  I FEEL IT AND BELIEVE IT.  MY LIST OR NO LIST I STILL WONT BE ABOUT TO PROVE IT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU WILL HAVE YOUR OWN OPINION.

Men can think women are wonderous without invoking superiority and inferiority. Men can love and worship women without feeling inferior.

AND SO CANT MEN LOVE AND WORSHIP WOMEN AND FEEL THEY ARE SUPERIOR.

Cheers,

CHEERS





sissifytoserve -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:16:14 PM)

Dead horse.

Flog

Flog



undergroundsea -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 8:28:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissypinky
Your own analogy fails you.
yOUR ANALOGY FAILS YOU.


See, here's the difference. When I say your analogy fails you, I can actually put some intelligent reasoning behind it. But that's alright. I am beginning to see a bit of your side and why you feel as you do.

Cheers,

Sea



cloudboy -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/14/2006 11:07:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DiannaVesta

"Erotic Control- The Art of Loving Female Domination"

I'd love you comments but please no debates on my space.
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Upside: fun and informal

Downside: rambling

Theme: It is important to feel good about oneself and to develop self confidence. TRUE. But, I'm not sure FEMDOM strivings amount to a panacea for female self esteem or a roadmap to self fulfillment.

Personal: I think WICCA is kind of wacked, but mostly in an endearing way.



zigg -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/15/2006 6:34:44 AM)

Female supremacy really depends on which female your talking about and which male.



MisPandora -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/15/2006 7:13:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sissypinky

Hey get this.  Women are superior.  :)


Sea -- Don't worry, love. Not all women buy into the theory either!



RosaB -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/15/2006 7:54:57 AM)

Agrees with MisPandora

Sea,

From what I've witness so far, IMO, it appears your calm demeanor, superior intellect and ability to stay focused  intimidates, so you're wasting your time trying to get answers to well thought out questions.   Believe me many of us get where you're coming from and appreciate your thoughts........Rosa


quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandoraSea -- Don't worry, love. Not all women buy into the theory either!







DiannaVesta -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/16/2006 10:23:17 AM)

Wow this is still going on? WTF? Ok give it a rest or lets have some fun!

FYI_ Don't forget to listen to me tonight on the radio with Ms Tara Indianna! If you miss the live show you can always listen to archives: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/goddess

Oh and for the record I AM writing a book on all of this.



LadyEllen -> RE: Elise Sutton Interviews ME - Female Supremacy (11/17/2006 3:47:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: zigg

Female supremacy really depends on which female your talking about and which male.


Just back from Czech; above is the most sensible, concise comment so far.

Its all a matter of perverspective.

Edited to add that Najak (as usual) made a very good point too; we should not fight amongst ourselves over whose perverspective is right and true (twue?), because guess what? They're all right and true for those who have and share those certain perverspectives. Fighting one another is pointless, as no one is going to suddenly change their perverspective, and it plays right into the hands of those who'd like to condemn us all to a psych ward (best outcome) for aversion therapy (electric shocks etc), or to hell in this world (worse outcome) and the next (if any), for psychological and religious deviance respectively.

A discussion and comparison is fine, but attacking one another is fruitless and dare I say it, a little stupid in the circumstances.

E



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