RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (Full Version)

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Nikolette -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 7:03:07 AM)

julia cutie,

Why would Joe go to Mark's Boss and tell him that he himself (Joe) is a thief?



Emperor1956 -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 7:05:58 AM)

quote:

LaM:
They give good head, you know.

Bluebird:  No, dahling - it's the CONSERVATIVES who will swallow anything!  [:D]



You guys crack me up.  Noah, too.   Better than average breakfast reading.

E



mnottertail -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 7:08:59 AM)

sure girl, long as we can't get hands on each other, we're safe, ain't we?

Ms Happyface to you

XO



Nikolette -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 7:16:26 AM)

*beam* YAY



*proudly wears the Ms Happyface and dances around* tra la la la la la laaaaaaa la la la la laaa



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 7:50:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
 
Before O/one can comment on the findings of a study, O/one must ascertain whether the authors used statistically valid samples and otherwise adhered to the tenets of reliable sociological research.


The study was by the PEW Research Center.  A fairly well known and respected polling and social research firm.  The complete study is available for download from the links provided.

I didn't download it, but generally it includes methodologies and their statistical sources and conclusions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Then there's the premise:  "Republicans are happier than Democrats".  It could just as easily be stated as "happy people tend to vote Republican".

 
That wasn't the premise.  It wasn't primarily about politics at all. The survey was one of a series, done for years, and is primarily about "happiness".  The study was designed to answer "happiness" questions in the beginning, and only later ask questions that might relate to cause in order to prevent contaminating the "reasons" with thoughts about politics (or other issues).

From the link:
Also, we should explain here a bit about how our survey questionnaire was constructed. The question about happiness was posed at the very beginning of the interview, while the question about political affiliation was posed at the back end, along with questions about demographic traits. So respondents were not cued to consider their happiness through the frame of partisan politics. This question is about happiness; it is not a question about happiness with partisan outcomes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i think the study was s'what flawed.


I'm not sure how you can arrive at that conclusion ... but ok.

FirmKY



candystripper -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 8:26:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

quote:

LaM:
They give good head, you know.

Bluebird:  No, dahling - it's the CONSERVATIVES who will swallow anything!  [:D]



You guys crack me up.  Noah, too.   Better than average breakfast reading.

E


Socially extremely liberal, economically very conservative.  A firm believer in the smallest possible government, particularly at the Federal level.  So tell me, does this enhance or detract from my wondrous bjs?
 
candystripper



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 8:39:11 AM)

julia,

Basically, I agree with your analysis, however, sometimes no "damage" is required to be proved, just to receive a judgement that libel has occurred.  A one dollar judgement is pretty standard when it's obvious that someone has committed libel or slander, and no monetary damages can be proven.

All it really takes is the patience and funds to hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit.  Collarme would get subpoened and dragged into it, which is one of the reasons for their TOS.  Similar TOSs are on most forums and sites where the the web host and website owner doesn't write all the content, or vet and approve it prior to publication.

It's why you get people "pending approval" from time to time, and why the TOS specifically say:
Collar Me Terms of Service:
4.3 Collarme.com hosted pages cannot contain, or provide links to, materials that Collarme.com, in its sole discretion, may consider illegal or offensive, including, but not limited to:

4.3.(8) Insults to other persons or companies, including but not limited to: material that is threatening, harassing, libelous or in any way a violation of intellectual property laws.
My initial point was that what is libel is different, between a public official, and a private person.  A public person would likely not succeed in even a one dollar lawsuit.  A private person likely would.

Which is why Collar Me won't put someone who makes a disparaging remark about a politician on "pending" status with their posts, but will if the exact same remarks are made about another poster.

FirmKY



LaTigresse -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 8:48:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

(Bliss is ignorance).


I cannot help it.......anyone that believes that must have one helluva lousy sex life. Or they be reeeeeeeeal ignorant![:D]



philosophy -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 8:49:38 AM)

......firmhandky......do you really want to go to court and have to, in effect, prove you are not a hypocrite?......'cos that would almost be worth it.......also, given that anonymous nature of posters here, it is hard to see how libel has occured. From the posts you make, on this thread and others, i have formed the conclusion that you are either knowingly hypocritical or much less bright than you seem. You have insulted other posters, then pretended not to. The 'last election good for conservatives' thread was an excellent example. My beef with that is the same beef i have with a few others......consistency. There are many posters on these fora who i respect, despite disagreeing with them, because their arguments are consistent.......which in my view equates to honourable........when someone fails to apply to themselves the rules they apply to others, i see that as dishonourable, inconsistent......hypocritical.
Should you wish to proceed with legal action, then please do so......but given the evidence of these fora you would lose. All i'd have to prove is that you have been guilty of doing things that you have openly criticised in others. There are enough examples of that.



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:24:18 AM)

philosophy,

I hold no animosity towards you or some of the others about what you have posted.  I simply disagree, and try to calmly state my opinions and reasoning.

And, again, as I said in response to one of julia's earlier posts "Who said anything about suing?".  If I were really offended, I'd simply click on the "Report Post" and various people would be on moderated status, and the offensive remarks would be deleted.

*shrugs* I have no plans to do that.  I don't mind the words standing for what they are. 

I'm not adverse to taking action, if I think it necessary, and an pretty familiar with the US legal system.

 I've had an attorney on retainer for a long time, and have both sued and been sued before.  While it's often a financial decision whether or not someone takes action with no discernable financial gain in sight, I've done it before (I recently paid a lawyer $1000 to tell an insurance company that wanted me to reimburse them for $1250 to go take a flying leap and that I'd meet them in court before I paid them something I didn't owe them.)

On your "consistency" note, I think if you read my post over time, you'll see a lot of consistency.  This isn't my first forum, by a long shot, and there are a few other members here who have seen me operate in such an environment for several years now.  I'm not surprised by the reaction that I get from some people, because I do something to them that is rare: I challenge their basic beliefs.

There is a certain subgroup of people who have never really been challenged in a calm, rational way before, and I believe that they have come to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't believe just as they do are in some way inferior, or subhuman or something.  They react very emotionally. 

Just look at all the words and stereotypes used by Noah, who is otherwise a smart (probably brilliant) individual.  Can you read his comments where he uses insults like "dickhead" and not understand that it's an emotional reaction guiding his fingers as he types his replies?

I do not prefer to get into those types of tit-for-tat exchanges.  I prefer to have a calm, reasonable and rational discussion about an issue, but occasionally you must be prepared to return someone's sarcasm and petty digs.  If you wish to know how and why I operate on a forum, in this environment, I'd suggest you google "game theory" and "tit-for-tat with forgiveness" as a game strategy.

Because of this, you may find an isolated post or two where I've been sarcastic, but I doubt you'll find one where I blatantly call someone an insulting name.  And yet again, I challenge you to find any post in which I've libeled anyone, or violated the TOS.

FirmKY





LaTigresse -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:28:40 AM)

This has been one hysterical thread I must say. So much sharp stick poking and chain yanking I am surprised we didn't have to call the fire dept.



happypervert -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:36:44 AM)

quote:

From the posts you make, on this thread and others, i have formed the conclusion that you are either knowingly hypocritical or much less bright than you seem.

heh, welcome to the club. I don't believe he is knowingly hypocritical -- from what I've seen he really has no sense of self-awareness at all at all, and he can't recognize the swipes he takes at others because he justifies them as "fact".

But looking on the bright side, those qualities may be as endearing as they are annoying. After all, it was rather amusing to see him start whining about the "tu quoque" and downright cute to see him portray himself as the innocent little kid being picked on by an intellectual bully even though it is really a case of someone trying to slap some sense into him. So there is something about the pigheaded certainty in his own righteousness that I admire; however it is also impossible to respect it.



ModeratorEleven -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:43:00 AM)

Ok kids, settle down please.

XI



mnottertail -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:44:49 AM)

Are moderators happy or sad? I didn't see much on that in the Pew Report.......

Lookin' like everybody's gonna be shortchanged somewhere in the stats.

Ron



juliaoceania -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:47:26 AM)

So what you are basically saying is that we should be sneakier with our snarks and disguise them in ways like "I find your post to be juvenile and immature" and then we are not violating the TOS, and others could couch their post to you as "I think you are a hypocritical SOB, but that is just my opinion based upon the words in your post" and then they are within the lines of the TOS... I see how it works, as long as one is stealth, their A-OK.. got it!



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:49:56 AM)

The respect of posters such as yourself doesn't interest me in the least.  It's a cheap commodity, easily purchased, and just as easily lost.

I source "facts".  I state opinions.  Most of the time I anger people such as yourself when I reflect back your own words and attitudes.

FirmKY



Level -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:59:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikolette

Level,

I LOVE LOVE LOVE your quote.


*le sigh*

What is it from?

See this is why I enjoy the difference in a day. I was just talking to my dad the other day about how each day is interestingly beautiful in that I get a few experiences older. This was upon learning that a car battery had water, how to check it and why! Oh. It doesn't need to be poetic lovely words. oh no. I'm evidently promiscuous in respect to knowledge. (blather blather digress digress)


Good morning, Nikolette [:D]. The quote is actually a combination of two Bukowski poems -- the first part is from "German Side Show, 1916", and the second is from one I can't remember the title to. What gave me the idea to "meld" them was the page "Side Show" was on fell out of my book; I picked it up, read it, and thought the two sections would go together nicely lol. Like a prose Reeses Peanut Butter Cup. [8|]
 
The book itself is titled Shakespeare Never Did This.



mnottertail -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 9:59:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I source "facts".  I state opinions.

FirmKY


This is nefarious territory, and facts should be quoted, because they are supposed. (ed is hard as in quoted in this case, for clarification) .

One can find a study that supports nearly any point of view, or enclave of modern and ancient notion.  This is problematical, in and of itself, because there seems to be a great deal of bias no matter where we scan the horizon.

Neutral fact is very rarely presented here or anywhere else.

This is a catch-22 because I can't hardly belive myself, now....
I don't know what is to be done, how we view the world is becoming more and more factionalized and fractionalized within factions...........

I long for the simple days, but we shall never return.

Ron   



Wildfleurs -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 10:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: saskslave

Indeed, the gap widened even further when they broke both into 2 groups.

Very Happy:
Conservative Repubs--47%
Moderate/liberal Repubs--45%

Conserv/moderate Dems--31%
Liberal Dems--28%

34 years straight.  Any suggestions why? 


I looked at the full report and there are so many gaps in information presented that its really hard to tell much of anything.  They started out asking one question until 2004 and then changed the wording of the question in 2005 which makes comparisons difficult if not impossible (the original question more asked a broader how do you feel about things in the world while the most recent one asked more on a personal level how people felt).  In looking at their trend chart it looks like the difference among republicans, democrats, and independents goes all over the place over the last 34 years (except for maybe the last ten years or so that seem to show a fairly clear upward trend).

When they say representative sample I'd really need to know a bit more about their sampling method to get an idea of whether its really representative (although quite honestly a nationwide survey of 3,000 when there are over 300 million people in America is a little low on the getting a representative sample scale for my tastes).

Also I'd need to know more specifically how they came to the political categories - they say how they had income categories, but they don't give any details on that.  Did they ask people what political party they belong to?  Or which party they vote along with most frequently?  Or did they ask who they voted for in the last presidential election?  I don't necessarily think any of those are clear indicators of political leanings, but without some clarity on how they actually had people self-report on their political leanings its all very murky. 

To me overall the report seems like a fairly fluff type of piece that you'd see on your 6pm news (I can picture a tiny woman with big hair and a cheery voice saying how theres a new report out that shows that republicans are happier than democrats - how happy are you?).  There's not a lot of meat or specifics on it to really say whether its accurate, and in fact there have been at least more in depth studies on happiness that seem to contradict some of their findings (off the top of my head I remember a few studies that looked at happieness among pet owners and found that they are happier and I think [based on my sketchy memory] healthier).  So I'd take it with a grain of salt.

C~



FirmhandKY -> RE: Why are conservatives happier than liberals? (11/14/2006 10:08:33 AM)

lol, Ron, very astute.

You noticed, no doubt that the word "facts" was in parens.  For just the reason you stated.

Which is why a debate and discussion even exists, because just because someone sources a "fact" doesn't make it true, and even if all accept it as true, the meaning of the "fact" is open to interpretation.

So "facts" almost always lead to opinions.

btw, I have made the argument several times in my life that "facts" don't exist, at all, either.

But they are sometimes an interesting starting point for discussion.

FirmKY



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