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RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/13/2005 7:51:17 PM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

By the way LordODiscipline.. if your submissive is hit by a car while crossing a street with you, I will consider it your fault. A submissive looks to the Dominant. If you step out in traffic, there is a good chance that sub will follow blindly, trusting that YOU checked to be sure it was clear. You just failed your sub

<grin> Interesting perspective. I can imagine specific instances when it could be considered 'failing.' Dom could have pulled sub out of the way but froze; dom had time to fling himself in front of the bus, pushing sub to safety. I think I'd take those personally as a failure if it happened to me (me being the dom).

For the sake of devil's advocate - if the sub's first rule is "Protect the property" then it could be said that the sub failed.

Either way, you end up with road pizza (a significantly bigger issue!)

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 21

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/13/2005 7:57:33 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BeachMystress

ROFLMAO, I was in the middle of pulling up a box to type the EXACT same thing.. minus my own name of course. We have to remember that there are some people who don't like any type of personal responsibility and therefore intentionally misread things to make their own point.

By the way LordODiscipline.. if your submissive is hit by a car while crossing a street with you, I will consider it your fault. A submissive looks to the Dominant. If you step out in traffic, there is a good chance that sub will follow blindly, trusting that YOU checked to be sure it was clear. You just failed your sub

And, you live in NY?

Look -

You are crossing the street at the corner of Houston and West Broadway and a taxi (they are amply irresponsible in stereotype and easy to pick on) comes careening up Houston Street and bangs down West Broadway trying to make the Wall Street area before the opening bell about 7:47AM.

You are holding your submissive's hand tightly and responsibly watching the light and oncoming traffic when the turn occurs, never suspecting that the end is near.

Bam.

His hand is wrenched from your own as you hear the tires squealing on the corner turn and the feel his wrist separate at the impact of flesh on a ton of plastic coated steel.

His hand slides from your own for the last time as he heads towards eternity (and, the next block) sans self motivation on his way to his last appointment.

He is as dead as if he were on Queens Boulevard crossing against the light - and, yet all of hte proper safety prevautions were taken on his behalf (as though he were an idiot step child).

Now - it is foreeable that this might happen - after all - you are walking in NYC. But, it is not avoidable, as (if you know NYC) that corner is a bitch to start with and taxi drivers are paid for the ride- not for their skills.

You may consider it your failure; but, then that is your psychological make-up and your issue

- I (personally) am not prone to lumping other people's foibles and idiocy on my shoulders because I am dealing with an unrequited guilt over something that is neither on my agenda or on my conscience.

Life is a string of mishaps and happenings that are not always avoidable no matter what one's knowledge is or how one prepares.

(Ask anyone who has "prepared" for war.)

And, useless guilt is simply a waste of life.

Please - feel free to feel about me any way you desire. It means nothing when the thing happens or afterwards.

But, we both know that planning for the future does not preclude the future from slapping us silly when we least desire or expect it.

Stating that a dominant must keep another safe is like saying that "all parents must keep their children protected at all times and from all things".

It is an ideal that is not always possible - and, lends to a belief and an expectation that someone can and will always protect another from all of life's vagaries and pit falls.

We try our best - surely. But, it just ain't always gonna happen.

This is not an abrogation of personal responsibility; this is accepting responsibility for what we might and must as a personal moral person should (and, I am a bastard on that subject) - It is simply not accepting blame for that which is not possibly our own fault.

~J

PS: Sorry we missed you in Alabama.

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 2/13/2005 8:01:27 PM >

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 22

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/13/2005 9:36:11 PM

RealityFix

Posts: 156
Joined: 8/12/2004
Status: offline

I think that Beachmistress is simply resorting to another ridiculous "possible scenario" that is used to defend a weak argument.

You cannot plan for every possible scenario. I think if you take reasonable precautions, it is enough.

And to be quite realistic here,responsibility is mutual. If the sub sees a danger the the Dominant overlooks, it is his or her DUTY to pointy it point it out to the Dominant in a respectful manner,is it not?

I find it very distasteful when a Dom/me assumes that submissives are child-like entities that have no say in what happens to them under the so called "protection" of a Dom/me. Or that they are inherently inferior on an intellectual status to Dom/mes.

I find it to be a condescending and extremely arrogant mindset.

And why would you WANT to be with an inferior person unless they were your MATCH?

< Message edited by RealityFix -- 2/13/2005 9:47:20 PM >

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 23

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/14/2005 11:09:55 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

A "Dom" has a terrable and important responsibility.
It is THEIR responsibility to care for, protect, guide, and educate the "sub"
A sub even in a "scene" gives up a part of "themselves" to the control and wishes of the "Dom".
This gift is most important and should always ALWAYS be given the utmost respect and appreciation.
If you cannot take care of yourself and your feelings and emotions and can control them then YOU cannot be a good Dom as those things you also control in the "sub".

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 24

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/14/2005 12:27:55 PM

liltxsubby

Posts: 328
Joined: 11/18/2004
From: TX
Status: offline

Actually, i don't think that there is one specific thing that every Dom/ina must do. I think it depends on what the Dom and sub like together. Some subs need to feel owned, some need discipline, some want to be loved. There's a whole list of what different people look for and want, ans sometimes it's a combination of many things. It's as much the sub's responsibility to tell her Dom what she wants and needs as it is the Dom's to provide it. And if the Dom doesn't like/want to provide what the sub looks for (and i mean the importrant things) then maybe it would be time for sub to move on.

Oh, and telling a Dominant that he/she "must do" anything is a surefire way of said thing not getting done, at least in my experience.

Pretty good way to ensure a spanking, too.

_____________________________

I'm Japan and Godzilla has taken over.

Laugh with them, or let them laugh at you.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 25

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/14/2005 5:00:48 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

A "Dom" has a terrable and important responsibility.
It is THEIR responsibility to care for, protect, guide, and educate the "sub"
A sub even in a "scene" gives up a part of "themselves" to the control and wishes of the "Dom".
This gift is most important and should always ALWAYS be given the utmost respect and appreciation.
If you cannot take care of yourself and your feelings and emotions and can control them then YOU cannot be a good Dom as those things you also control in the "sub".

Oh, hell no - tell me he is not saying this, please!

In this case, I am definitively NOT a good dominant... someone tell my girl.

~J

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 26

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/14/2005 5:07:37 PM

RiotGirl

Posts: 3149
Status: offline

Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 10:31:13 PM >

(in reply to liltxsubby)

Post #: 27

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/14/2005 11:50:34 PM

DarkQuin

Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

*writes "Owned" on a Post-It and slaps it on the forehead of the nearest sub*

Lookit that! I'm a dom now!

_____________________________

</sarcasm>

So that is what I'm doing wrong

*runs out to get a big box of post-its*

(in reply to Moleculor)

Post #: 28

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/15/2005 4:46:02 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkQuin

quote:

*writes "Owned" on a Post-It and slaps it on the forehead of the nearest sub*

Lookit that! I'm a dom now!

_____________________________

</sarcasm>

So that is what I'm doing wrong

*runs out to get a big box of post-its*

Would be a lot more effective if you used a branding iron, no? <weg> Though I'd go for the ass and not the forehead...

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to DarkQuin)

Post #: 29

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/15/2005 6:04:19 AM

Furious

Posts: 3
Joined: 5/21/2004
Status: offline

I must be pretty naive. I was thinking that "protect the sub" meant keeping the dog off the table when I bring home take out from the deli.
javascript:void(AddText('

'))

Kidding.

Seriously, I mostly associate protecting my bottom as something that occurs during a session...when I'm playing and they are vulnerable both physically and emotionally.

(in reply to iwillserveu)

Post #: 30

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/15/2005 3:55:24 PM

sting516

Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline

well, L.o.D., it sounds to me like you want all of the fun of Domination without any responsibility for it...this is dangerous, and i hope anyone who would think about submitting to you reads this thread first.

sting

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 31

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/15/2005 8:30:15 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sting516
well, L.o.D., it sounds to me like you want all of the fun of Domination without any responsibility for it...this is dangerous, and i hope anyone who would think about submitting to you reads this thread first.

"What we seem to have heyah <p-tuh> is a fail-ya of co-mun-i-cashun."
- "Cool Hand Luke"

You are either misreading me, misunderstanding me, or definitively require a remedial course in language comprehension skills.

If you have not noticed, I definitively do not believe in the canned ideology that is normally associated with on-line personnas.

I find it unrealistic in scope, in application to the real world, and unmanageable in real time.

Let me spell it out for you:

No one can "protect" anyone from every instance or contingency that may arise and potentially endanger them. And, anyone who believes they can is taking some mighty fine hallucenagenic drugs (and, obviously not sharing them).

But, I will 'tell you what' - come out to LIL&R (in your area), DSF, or TES meeting some evening and you can explain to my girl how dangerous I am.

Just let me know when you will be there.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 2/15/2005 8:32:26 PM >

(in reply to sting516)

Post #: 32

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/15/2005 11:59:38 PM

GrandpaLash

Posts: 133
Joined: 1/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfspet

My bitch switch must be stuck today

In your lofty reading of BeachMystress' quote, did you miss the words any forseeable harm?

Thank you Wolfspet, took the thought right out of my brain.

Grandpa Lash

_____________________________

Sex without D/s is about as pointless as D/s without sex

(in reply to Wolfspet)

Post #: 33

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 5:17:40 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

Just my $.02 ...

First, yes, we want our boys to feel owned, and sometimes we fail at that, but overall, we only have a responsibility to do our best by them. If it's not enough, in one way or another, then they are free to leave and "catch the next Dominant bus" as someone said earlier. Overall, I think we do a pretty good job, not because we go out of our way to do much of anything special, but because we do what is natural to us, and they do what is natural to them - it's a mindset, and if they don't have it, nothing we do is going to change that and make them have it.

Second, the whole 'sub getting squished thing' is ... yeah ... not exactly appropriate to what Beach was saying. We protect our boys from what we can - meaning, we don't intentionally beat on their kidneys, we don't ask them to do things that they are mentally/physically incapable of doing, and we check up on them to make sure that they are eating and sleeping properly. If an accident occurs, even if it was foreseeable - if we have done our best to prevent it, for the case of your example - we have looked both ways, we have waited for the light to be in our favor, etc., then it is not our fault, but we have made attempts to prevent the foreseeable accident ... we have tried to protect them. Now, obviously, it doens't always work - nailing a sub in the kidneys with a new flogger that isn't ballanced quite the same as the old one happens; nailing your partner in the nose with your elbow happens (in this case, it was me getting nailed by my girlfriend as we were looking at a wound our boy got at work, but still); getting hit by a car, unfortunately, happens; in some areas, getting hit by a stray bullet happens - all of these things suck, all of these things are potentially foreseeable, and all of these things happen anyway ... but as long as the Dominant has done his/her best to prevent harm from coming to the submissive, then he/she has done the job they needed to do.

(in reply to GrandpaLash)

Post #: 34

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 6:05:46 AM

MaitresseEden

Posts: 477
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Houston, Texas
Status: offline

I take issue with the whole concept of human ownership. ( #1 its illegal, and #2 they don't come with Title and deed). But onto the subject. LA is correct in saying to each his/her own. While "iwill" may have a natural proclivity to do those things for his mother, sister and friend. Many men don't. Furthermore, for some those acts are extremely submissive ones. I also agree with Madame Bette who says you can't " Force" someone to do things. So I must reject your Blanket statement, or edit it to say.

For all those engageing in power exchange relationships, there is a responsibility to openly communicate, & negotiate your individual needs, wants, and desires, and agree equally as to the how the exchange of power will proceed.

Ms. Eden

_____________________________

"If I didnt define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other peoples fantasies for me and eaten alive. - Audre Lorde"

(in reply to BeachMystress)

Post #: 35

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 2:51:46 PM

sting516

Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline

L.O.D.

i need not take a trip out to LILNR or TES...as, in the past, i've been very active in the NY scene, including a year on the board of directors of TES...i'm stating my opinion of your posts...like it, don't like it, whatever...it's my opinion of what i've read from you, and i have no intention of changing my opinion...

the condescending tone you take in your response tell me all i need to know about you...and there is no way i'd bother letting you know if and when i'd go to such a meeting, as what really is to be gained, for either of us...

all to often, especially online, the desire to make oneself stand out by saying ridiculous things...implying that the Dom should take no responsibility for what happens to the sub is ridiculous...a slave/sub is not your car, it is a human being...and there are certain responsibilities one takes when they take on human property...as i'm sure a VERY VERY VERY small number of people would feel good about giving themself to someone who has such small regard for human property.

i'm sure your mileage may vary, LOD, but in this case, mine doesn't...and lets agree to disagree.

sting

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 36

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 3:08:43 PM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Rochester, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaitresseEden

I take issue with the whole concept of human ownership. ( #1 its illegal, and #2 they don't come with Title and deed).

#1 So is hitting someone with a flogger or whip. In many states, cuckolding would be illegal as well.

#2 Cars and plots of land don't come with Title and deed either, until someone writes them up.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to MaitresseEden)

Post #: 37

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 3:44:57 PM

NATI

Posts: 177
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

If you are not feeling that fulfillment or sense of submission by doing the dishes, you need to talk to your domme. Your ability to communicate is integral to the process, and if you neglect to tell her that you are unhappy because you feel more like you are at mom's house - where is the failure? She can't know through osmossis what it is that you find dissatisfying. If you expect her to just divine this, you are going to be unhappy for a very long time.

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

Post #: 38

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/16/2005 4:56:32 PM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Actually - You expressed a personal opinion of myself, which was less than flattering and a sincere slander - hence the response as such it was.

You see - I defy you to find and demonstrate where I stated that a dominant should take 'no responsibility'. And, without that, the rest of the argument you posed falters as useless.

Over and over I have stated that someone cannot be completely responsible for another's fate they cannot have responsibility for everything that might transpire - I have never stated otherwise.

You seem to have a distinct failure to understand that point despite the fact that I have spelled it out in a plain colloquial english.

Your mis-interpretation and relegation of this in an opposing direction appears to be derranged.

And, your distancing from meeting for your 'explanation to the girl' is a rather telling tale.

I would agree to disagree, would that I expressed the statements you attribute to me - but, as I shall not because I did not - So, I cannot.

But, either way - I hope that we might meet some day - always a pleasure to meet others.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 2/16/2005 5:03:11 PM >

(in reply to sting516)

Post #: 39

RE: What a Dom/ina "must" do - 2/18/2005 3:25:35 AM

sting516

Posts: 505
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: long island, ny
Status: offline

so much for agreeing to disagree i guess...spin it any way you want to, LOD, i care not what your opinion is of me, as i doubt you really care what my opinion is of you...knock yourself out and respond to this, but i will not be responding to you, at least on this thread again...not worth the aggravation to me.

sting

(in reply to LordODiscipline)

Post #: 40

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