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RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 10:33:03 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		When I started dating again after my ex-husband and I separated, I seemed to attract guys who liked to argue, so much so that they would intentionally bait me into a fight.  (There's a lot of ways to bond, emotionally, and conflict is a very effective one.) I can get very passionate and intense and do a lot of really fun things with my hands when I'm agitated so I guess they liked the show I put on and the fact that it represented a challenge to them or somehow charged them up.  And, I was naive enough not to realize what they were doing so I took the bait.

I was also involved with a Dominant for a while who would encourage me to "fight back" when we played, and I mean this literally.  Basically, these scenes would involve me being tied up, blindfolded, with a ballgag and him beating on me, and at some point, when I was about at my limit, he would tell me if I wanted it to stop I would have to untie myself, and make him stop.  They were really intense scenes because I was pretty much out of controll driven by some primal fight or die energy and at one point I scratched up my mouth ripping the ball gag off.   After doing this particular scene about three times I refused to do it anymore.  We also tended to argue about everything because, as he put it, he liked to debate.

I've seen this pattern enough times to realize its not for me.   I don't want to be someone's debating partner, and I'm at a point in my life where I'm done arguing.  Alot of it's because life has taught me to be flexible and most things just don't get to me anymore.

Edited because I accidedentally posted before finishing:

As it stands now, I do what I can to clarify my perspective in the face of a conflict or difference, and try to leave it at that without trying to change the other persons mind or opinion.  In other words, I am no longer in the business of persuasion. :)

I can imagine this working in a D/s context because, as a submissive, I expect to cede a certain amount of authority to the D part of the exchange.  Its hard for me to imagine being involved with a Dominant who isn't willing to listen to my perspective, but I also can't imagine being involved with one who doesn't have a concept of his authority within the relationship.  And that authority would apply to conflict resolution.






< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 11/27/2006 10:42:00 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 11:11:08 AM   
KeirasSecret


Posts: 415
Joined: 8/17/2006
From: central NH
Status: offline 		i would have to say, because we have always been D/s from the beginning, at first i was afraid to present my conflicting opinion (probably because of how I was brought up). i would respond with a “yes Sir” and argue with myself on how I could possibly accept what he was saying. During that phase Sir was intuitive enough to pick up on my body language to ask me questions that helped me, for the most part, process things in a more reasonable light.

Now that a few months have gone by I am more capable of expressing myself when I don’t exactly agree with what I believe he has in mind. At which time he either explains himself better so I understand what it is he is expecting of me or I am allowed to give my point of view, as long as it is done respectfully. This is not always an easy thing for me, due to my sarcastic sense of humor and awesome ability to point out the painfully obvious. I have managed to (and I’m not sure how to say this) get him to see things from my prospective twice, once without even meaning too.

For those times when he is firmly set in his ideas, I ask myself one question; “What is most important here?” thus far the answer has always been preserving the relationship.

k

i make plans....God just laughs

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 11:14:25 AM   
BeingChewsie


Posts: 1633
Joined: 10/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

There is no arguing.  What he says goes.  If I disagree with something, I may present my case in a manner which he deems appropriate.  The thing is, there is nothing I feel the need to argue over anymore.  I used to argue...well, I tried.  .  It never got me anywhere though, and he wouldn't put up with it anyway.  The deeper meaning behind my arguments had mostly to do with me fighting my own submission, though.  Now that I have grown with him as I have, I trust his decisions and accept them.  If I have concerns about something, I bring them up.  Sometimes my submission to him means accepting that which I do not like, or that which pains me.  But I accept it, and it is not so difficult to do that anymore. It is really peaceful to be in this place now...for both of us!



We don't argue either. There is nothing that takes place in our dynamic to argue about.  He has a zero tolerance policy on attitude. There have been times when he has called me at work to discuss something and I have been stressed and snapped at him..and he snaps back.much much harder. Tone and demeanor mean everything here. There is no point in arguing with him, he wins by default, and I pay the price for doing so. I'm a smart girl, I don't have to put my hands on the hot stove to know it will burn. He doesn't even care to discuss my disliking something..it really comes down too.."just shut up and do it." He knows me, therefore he knows when he tells me to do something or he does something that I don't like...as he tells me "Copernicus called the world really does not revolve around you".

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:07:13 PM   
LiLpuppgh


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting,

W/we have had some very short arguments in the 8 months we ahve been living together, however they have almost always been because we both had not eaten and therefor had low blood sugar or there was a lot of stress that had nothing to do with our relationship and, once i screamed at him. They were all short spats, easily resolved and set right.

~lilah
House of (D)EL

(in reply to blushingflower)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:27:28 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have not seen this come up in the months I have been posting here. I was wondering if those of you reading this think that arguing/conflict resolution/fighting, whatever one wants to call it, is a part of a Ds/Ms relationship. If you are involved in a relationship, do you ever argue? Do you have conflicts? How are they handled while respecting the power exchange?


Interesting questions.  In the first D/s relationship I was involved in, I had a hard time dealing with conflict as I was so direly opposed to being involved in another vanilla situation wherein disagreement and argument and pouting went on.  I was fairly harsh with my submissive regardings argument...I brooked none...and luckily for me, she understood where I was coming from and was gentle in her "guidance" from the submissive side in getting me to see that having the "power" to always decide did not necessarily mean I had to choose the exact opposite of her just to prove a point.

In my last D/s relationship, I was working from a differing perspective than I'd had before...a relationship that was serious and yet, due to distance and other personal issues in her life, could not be as controlled as what I'd been used to in my previous D/s relationships.  This required much more discussion and compromise.  In the long run, I realize that a part of that was due to....conflicting...circumstances on her part.

Now, in thinking about it since the end of that relationship during a time in which I have deliberately avoided involvement in order to clarify in my own head what it is I want, I have to say I go more with the Constructive - Destructive Theorem also.
I change my mind OR they change their mind OR we agree to disagree.  Also, as KOM noted, these three paths still leave me as the authority in the end...I will have the deciding vote always in anything that has been decided and agreed between us wherein her will is surrendered.  Disagreement can exist within dominance and submission but when the disagreement takes place within the boundaries of the exertion of authority and the surrendering of the will, I think it behooves the dominant to be responsible in his decision-making and the submissive to be mindful of her choice to yield.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:34:36 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline 		Oh boy am I confused.  If it's always the Dom/Domme's way or no way, then what's the point in discussing?  Don't we then become the dreaded "doormat" submissive/slave that just smiles sweetly and says Yes Sir/Ma'am to whatever we're told to do? 

I'm not judging, I'm just asking as a newbie.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:36:29 PM   
SassySue


Posts: 54
Joined: 2/12/2006
Status: offline 		 Disagreement can exist within dominance and submission but when the disagreement takes place within the boundaries of the exertion of authority and the surrendering of the will, I think it behooves the dominant to be responsible in his decision-making and the submissive to be mindful of her choice to yield.

I agree.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:39:01 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
from the submissive side in getting me to see that having the "power" to always decide did not necessarily mean I had to choose the exact opposite of her just to prove a point.

And you should be praised for having a secure enough ego to at least allow yourself to be open to her teaching you that.  So many can't.

And so many (doms and subs) fall into the trap that "no/denial = dominance" and end up with no one being really happy. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:44:09 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		edited

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 11/27/2006 12:45:56 PM >

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 12:48:36 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Oh boy am I confused.  If it's always the Dom/Domme's way or no way, then what's the point in discussing?  Don't we then become the dreaded "doormat" submissive/slave that just smiles sweetly and says Yes Sir/Ma'am to whatever we're told to do? 

I'm not judging, I'm just asking as a newbie.



many Masters demand a submissive/slave who always obeys without question or hesitation...my Master is one of them and proud of it. whether or not such a slave is a doormat, that's up to you to define.

you asked what's the point of discussion if it's always the Dominant's way. well the "point" of discussion should be to communicate and express feelings and viewpoints, not necessarily persuasion. when my Master asks for my thoughts on a particular matter, it's because he is genuinely interested...he wants to know how i feel or what i'm thinking. but he is still going to do what he wishes to do regardless, as it should be imo.

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 1:02:55 PM   
LW3


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Oh boy am I confused.  If it's always the Dom/Domme's way or no way, then what's the point in discussing?  Don't we then become the dreaded "doormat" submissive/slave that just smiles sweetly and says Yes Sir/Ma'am to whatever we're told to do? 

I'm not judging, I'm just asking as a newbie.



no. I don't think so.

It's always de Dom/Domme's way or no way but the Dom/Domme can learn from his/her slave's point of view to make a better way.
it will still be his/her way because it's the Dom/Domme who decides but that decision takes into acount not only the Dom/Domme's knowledge and experience but also the slave's knowledge and experience.
that's why the slave is not a "doormat".

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
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RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 1:08:08 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3
It's always de Dom/Domme's way or no way but the Dom/Domme can learn from his/her slave's point of view to make a better way.
it will still be his/her way because it's the Dom/Domme who decides but that decision takes into acount not only the Dom/Domme's knowledge and experience but also the slave's knowledge and experience.
that's why the slave is not a "doormat".

I dunno, that sounds a bit too much like gymnastics.  "It's your idea, but it's really mine because I'm the dom and I decide it's the right thing to do."

I'm not disagreeing with your points- a sub can make as many fabulous suggestions as there are angels on the head of a pin, if the dom doesn't listen, it's pointless.  The authority DOES always rest with the master.

However, saying "Its my way because I have the final say so...no matter that I'm doing everything you suggested" seems a bit humorously over the top of someone who just can't relax.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LW3)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 1:26:34 PM   
LW3


Posts: 59
Joined: 9/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
I dunno, that sounds a bit too much like gymnastics.  "It's your idea, but it's really mine because I'm the dom and I decide it's the right thing to do."


I may be wrong (I'm human) but I think it's more like "It was your way. now it's OUR way because I agree with you so we will do it"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 1:30:07 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LW3
I may be wrong (I'm human) but I think it's more like "It was your way. now it's OUR way because I agree with you so we will do it"


Maybe it's like the whole "transparency" issue- it's not something you think about if everyone's just working well together.  It's only when other issues come up that this becomes something to worry over.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LW3)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 2:54:47 PM   
andreaC


Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline 		In the first years, i have to say we did argued, but there was an adjustment to be made.  In the last two years, it has been great........for sure i dont always agree with him, but he is very good in letting me express my opinion. 

One little thing is that i love shopping and i will tend to say the word *but* then he makes a noise with his mouth and i know to just be pretty and quiet about it.....

I respect him alot and he knows that........its just that my mouth sometimes..............

_____________________________

andreaC - owned by Master Carrera2
Complete and extremely happy :)
Jeg elsker deg Herre

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 4:18:26 PM   
patina


Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: no
Status: offline 		We do not argue yet, I have disagreeded with Him on certain issues, He is the only person that has been able to get me to stop in mid sentence and retract my thoughts.  I will doubt I will ever argue completely with Him.  He has said I am allowed to state my view, then He will explain why it is of no account  His opinion is all that matter.  It is His decision that wins or decides all arguments. 

Patina slave to {PM}

Only in His Chains am I Set Free 

_____________________________

a diamond in the rough

(in reply to blushingflower)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 4:28:36 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Believe it or not.. I'm not an argumenative person. 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 4:38:11 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Oh boy am I confused.  If it's always the Dom/Domme's way or no way, then what's the point in discussing?  Don't we then become the dreaded "doormat" submissive/slave that just smiles sweetly and says Yes Sir/Ma'am to whatever we're told to do? 

I'm not judging, I'm just asking as a newbie.


In my opinion no, we do not become doormats in that capacity. Master and I discussed a great many things in the beginning of our relationship. Long before I met him, he would continually ask me the same question " Are you sure this is what you want"; he gave me plenty of time to assess my own feelings and goals in regards to where we would be heading.

"His way or the highway" was something he made very clear very early on. I thought about it and accepted it. That does not make me a doormat, only informed about the choice that I made. I walked into this relationship willingly and with my eyes wide open.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 5:05:55 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

Oh boy am I confused.  If it's always the Dom/Domme's way or no way, then what's the point in discussing?  Don't we then become the dreaded "doormat" submissive/slave that just smiles sweetly and says Yes Sir/Ma'am to whatever we're told to do? 

I'm not judging, I'm just asking as a newbie.



For us, the arguements that we've had are because what he wanted were things that were both difficult and things I was at that time pretty much flat out against (or I, quite honestly thought were stupid).  Arguing about it certainly didn't change his mind, it was just a forceful expression of my view.

I'm a pretty strong willed person, my owner just happens to have a stronger will than I do.  Sometimes we clash but he does end up getting his way.

Hopefully that makes sense,

C~


_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to BRNaughtyAngel)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Arguments and The D/s Relationship - 11/27/2006 5:15:41 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


Posts: 1821
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wildfleurs

For us, the arguements that we've had are because what he wanted were things that were both difficult and things I was at that time pretty much flat out against (or I, quite honestly thought were stupid).  Arguing about it certainly didn't change his mind, it was just a forceful expression of my view.
I'm a pretty strong willed person, my owner just happens to have a stronger will than I do.  Sometimes we clash but he does end up getting his way.
Hopefully that makes sense,
C~


Oh boy does it make sense, especially right now.    I am trying so hard to keep my eye on the prize, so to speak, but I'm suffering from some serious emotional turmoil, that's exacerbated by PMS hormones.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 60
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