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Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 8:56:55 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

While I realize that this is an opinion question (of course it is) AND I realize that I know the answer already, I thought it might lead to some good discussion.

I've seen in a number of threads that subs/slaves feel it when their Master is not being "masterly" and so they don't feel that driving need or desire to submit. Who's responsibility is it in the relationship to maintain the dynamic, in your opinion? Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive? Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

Why or why not, for both questions.

Master Fire

_____________________________

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Post #: 1

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:09:59 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

While I realize that this is an opinion question (of course it is) AND I realize that I know the answer already, I thought it might lead to some good discussion.

I've seen in a number of threads that subs/slaves feel it when their Master is not being "masterly" and so they don't feel that driving need or desire to submit. Who's responsibility is it in the relationship to maintain the dynamic, in your opinion? Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive? Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

Why or why not, for both questions.

Master Fire

Hmm, we do not 'strive' to maintain any kind of dynamic. We are just who we are, always, 24/7/365. Neither one of us works harder at being ourselves

Master and I joke around quite often, yet, it does not change the fact that he is my owner, and I am just property.

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 2

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:14:20 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Everyone is responsible for maintaining a relationship between everyone.

We should all be inspiring and reacting to eachother. Since we should be fulfilling ourselves with our choices, ultimately WE are responsible for OUR fulfillment. No "inspiration" in the world can be enough if the inner drive isn't there.

And I have no desire to be a substitute for someone's addiction.

I think the source of the problem often lies in both doms and subs thinking that submission = passive and that it's the doms job to always inspire/lead/take charge in the relationship. This leads to a lot of burnt out doms and frustrated subs.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 3

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:15:06 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Hi

I think its probably only natural that there will be fluctuations in the intensity of a D/s relationship; same as there is with any relationship to be honest.

I guess if we are to go on a strict interpretation, then the slave is always a slave, but the master/mistress is free to be who they want to be, and allow the slave (even invite) to adapt to the changes in the master/mistress in a roller coaster ride through moods and situations, or insist the slave remain as they are throughout, as the master/mistress prefers.

I'm not sure whether either party has responsibility as such to provoke the other back into role in this way, although the master/mistress has the authority to.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 4

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:15:16 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

My mom says "relationships are like a bank account, when you both invest you have a surplus, when you both withdraw or just one withdraws you have a deficit.

i have learned the hard way that if i need more dominance i need to be more submissive...this is the exact opposite of what i want to do when i need more dominance though.

quote:

Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive?

gosh that would be exhausting, my school of thought on this is that it is an ebb and flow, i have lived in a very strict BDSM dynamic where there was very little room for mood shifts and that relationship did not flow as well as relationships i have been in where the underlying dynamics was firmly in place but there was room to speed up or ramp down.

quote:

Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

should? yeah probally that is the ideal, but that is not life though is it?.....i think that you are either investing in the goals and dreams of your relationship or you are not....and you know when you are not...

and yet you sometimes cant help having an emotional reaction, or coming from past programming or wounding and straying off course...every now and again the relationship can absorb the shock of this sort of turbulence and its ok....but....if it happens often the foundation begins to crumble and slide into the sea....

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 5

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:23:17 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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My opinion is that all parties involved in any relationship are responsible. To explain further and use work as an example.

I manage the business and have things I must do so that the guys that work for me can do their jobs. I am responsible for the workflow, scheduling, ordering supplies. If I do my job properly, they should be able to do theirs properly.

They are responsible for the quality of their work, getting it done in a timely manner AND keeping me advised of any problems that may hamper their ability to do their job. While I am the one in charge, I cannot do everything. I also cannot know what is going on in their heads or their private life. It is up to them to communicate to me anything that may affect their ability to do their work. It is also my responsibility to be receptive to their needs and to be available to listen.

Regardless of who is in charge, all parties are responsible.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 6

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 9:39:16 AM

SlaveAkasha

Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline

As with any relationship, both people have to work on it. I guess for me, I just naturally submit to Master, it's not something I really work at. We neither one feel there is one way to be the perfect slave, or Dominant. We are just being who we are and it all flows together.

I think that too many have some ideal they think their other needs to live up to. Something they read in a book, or saw on the internet. Real life just isn't like that. All of that real life stuff gets in the way and it's way too much to try and maintain some "fantasy" M/s D/s thing.

There is no magic "feeling", there are just two people going along and being themselves. That is the reality and from what I have experieced, the most blissful way to be.

Kasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 7

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 10:38:28 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

I'm rather thinking this through as I'm typing, so if it seems a little disjointed, I apologize in advance.

It seems to me.......

While I agree relationships are a two-way street, I imagine in most situations a submissive does not 'discover' their own submission in the midst of an preexisting relationship. Or, rather, it seems hard to imagine that tomorrow I pluck some vanilla girl off the street for a relationship and, from scratch, make her POOF!!! submissive. Certainly that 'can' happen, and probably from time to time does indeed transpire. In the grand scheme of things, unlikely, though.

In such an instance, if this relationship were to end, this woman who 'wasn't submissive yesterday, but now IS'....... would she continue to be submissive in later relationships or would she go back to being who she was because the impetus to her submission in the first place (me) no longer exists in her life? (Now that's a good spin-off topic, yes>)

Now let's examine it from the opposite viewpoint, that a submissive is 'that way' prior to entering into a relationship. Wouldn't it make sense that, if nothing more than a sense of pride of being the best submissive he/she could be, that the source of submission comes from WITHIN, rather than from direction from the outside source (the dominant in the relationship). In that case, the submissive would always 'behave' in a submissive manner regardless of how dominant (or 'consistently' dominant) their partner is.

This might seem inordinately backwards to a great deal of you here. What I'm trying to posit here is that a high-quality submissive always maintains their own sense of 'place', rather than requiring it to be 'instructed' upon them. If you think of it in terms of a person like an English butler, don't you imagine that person maintains their similar level of 'tone' regardless of their surroundings? It's not just an air they present while serving, it is just their manner and attitude. It's what is most comfortable for them.

If you think your submission wavers because of the person opposite you, then I might maintain that your surroundings are inadequate, or your resolve. If it is the resolve, then that doesn't speak highly of that submissive, I should think.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 8

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 10:55:39 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

JX:

The "problem" is that there is no such thing as "a submissive manner."

Their "submissive place" is only relevant within the confines of the specific relationship they have consented to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 9

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 11:01:08 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

JX:

The "problem" is that there is no such thing as "a submissive manner."

Their "submissive place" is only relevant within the confines of the specific relationship they have consented to.

Absolutely not.

A submissive ends a relationship with a dominant. Does that person have to 'relearn', 'rethink', their submission all over again?

I agree that some people are better able to bring out the feelings than another, but that occurs during the weeding-out process. Once a stray submissive gets claimed again by someone decently worthy, it 'should' be like riding a bike.

'Oh, yeah, I remember how this works.' And then you just go do it.

I simply don't think there requires any additional motivation. You know who you are, you go 'be' who you are. All this assuming that you are in a relationship befitting that attitude.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 10

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 11:02:59 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx
A submissive ends a relationship with a dominant. Does that person have to 'relearn', 'rethink', their submission all over again?

In many ways, yes.

quote:

'Oh, yeah, I remember how this works.' And then you just go do it.

I simply don't think there requires any additional motivation. You know who you are, you go 'be' who you are. All this assuming that you are in a relationship befitting that attitude.

Jeff

Who we are changes, and how we express who we are can change radically depending on the relationship. There is no "one way" to be a submissive, even within the same person.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mstrjx)

Post #: 11

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 11:26:13 AM

slavemaia

Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline

i'm very much of the opinion that each individual needs to be fully who they are. However, i do believe we all formulate patterns or habits of behavior based on our life circumstances and those we are deeply connected with. In looking over my life i can definitely see that my innate personality is quite submissive, regardless of my conscious choices. i am typically drawn to strong, more dominant people in general and will adjust myself to their wishes fairly readily. Yet i do have enough dominant aspects to "take the bull by the horns" so to speak when in the presence of someone even more submissive than i or even passive. This aspect of my personality has enabled me to run my own businesses several times, supervise others and organize events etc. Yet the reality for me is being the dominant partner in a relationship does not ring my chimes and does not serve my internal spiritual and psychological objectives.

So, for me the dynamic is very much an interactive connection between myself and the one i'm involved with. i don't know if there is such a thing as "naturally" submissive or dominant because who knows how any of us would have turned out without the influence of our surroundings in developing as individuals. If i have dominant traits they are not one's i wish to embrace because they are more aggressive and abrasive than they are dominant. i've come to recognize them as the armor i've used to protect and shield the more vulnerable aspects of myself that i identify as "the slave".

Yet, because of the many many years of being totally responsible for myself, i believe i've developed thought and behavior patterns that can work against the very thing i want - my submission to my Master. i find, He says do this and i automatically think "does that make sense? Is it in His best interest?" , when what He wants is my obedience. So that, i'm seeing, takes trust and lots of it.

Fortunately for me i am blessed with a kind, caring and loving Master who is also learning His way in this D/s relationship - re: how much control He enjoys vs. attempting to meet demands from a selfish slave; and how much control is realistic in light of ALL the circumstances of O/our lives. i know that when He commands me i want to please and serve. When He smiles, when He is happy and pleased, i am in heaven. When i'm away from Him and there is very little M/s type of interaction, i feel myself slowly reverting back into the armor of headstrong opinions, willfulness etc. - things that kept me alive and surviving without a Master in my life.

i'm 58 - soon to be 59 and this is my first M/s relationship - so i think that has alot to do with it as well. So who's responsible? i believe both - equally and consistently.

_____________________________

She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 12

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 11:28:45 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

While I realize that this is an opinion question (of course it is) AND I realize that I know the answer already, I thought it might lead to some good discussion.

I've seen in a number of threads that subs/slaves feel it when their Master is not being "masterly" and so they don't feel that driving need or desire to submit. Who's responsibility is it in the relationship to maintain the dynamic, in your opinion? Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive? Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

Why or why not, for both questions.

Master Fire

I'd say I view that in many ways as an issue of care and feeding of the relationship. I see us both as being responsible for the care and maintenance of the relationship. Specifically in terms of dominance and submission for us so long as we are who we are, thats generally never been a problem.

C~

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
~~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 13

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 12:23:53 PM

slaveMastery

Posts: 77
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

The "problem" is that there is no such thing as "a submissive manner."

Their "submissive place" is only relevant within the confines of the specific relationship they have consented to.

I am not sure whether we are looking at semantics or at actually divergent philosophies here.

But I firmly believe that a "submissive nature" is there from a person's birth, whereas a person's "submission" can only exist as part of a particular relationship dynamic. A girl may have the innate need and desire to submit from any given point/time of self-discovery, but cannot actually submit until she finds One that can accept her submission in/through their relationship.

Same would go for dominance - someone may be dominant in nature since birth, but such dominance can only truly express itself and evolve in the dynamic of having one that will let herself be dominated.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 14

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 12:32:36 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
I've seen in a number of threads that subs/slaves feel it when their Master is not being "masterly" and so they don't feel that driving need or desire to submit.

All those pesky expectations of what a Master should or should not do and still get to be called a Master. ::chuckles::

Tilt your head, cross your arms over your chest and declare.. "Well, that's not very Masterly now, is it!" Then a nice little foot stomp completes the picture.

Anyone wanna cop to doing that? Anyone want to cop to even thinking that?

Well, I sure will because I used to do exactly that. "You're not a Master if ... you don't do exactly what I think you should do!"

Oh my, that's not very slavery is it! ::laughs::

quote:

Who's responsibility is it in the relationship to maintain the dynamic, in your opinion?

Mine.

quote:

Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive?

Nope.

quote:

Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

Yes.

quote:

Why or why not, for both questions.

Ok, I was a little tongue in cheek, but, in my submission, I stand alone. As soon as I see someone having to be responsible for maintaining a relationship, that sounds like work to me.. and work sucks. Going with the flow, being who I am, Himself being true to his own nature.. now that's a life I enjoy and there's nothing which remotely smacks of work.

Himself does not need to put his Mastery on display, he need not command, order, or suggest, he need not allow me to serve him, he, basically, doesn't need to do anything in order for my submission to just be there because it's not external influences which drive it, it's internal acceptance.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 15

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 1:36:20 PM

Hisgirlforever

Posts: 32
Joined: 11/14/2006
Status: offline

Wow, I feel like this was posted for me. I am currently thinking about who has the responsibility to keep me on my knees. The last few days I feel like I have not had "my needs" met in terms of play and sex. I keep thinking in my head "Fuck, here I am giving my body up to whatever he wants and I am his and he doesn’t even want to play with his toy this weekend” Then it dawned on me that I am his and if he dose not feel like playing with his toy or exerting his power then that is his choice, he is the boss, he calls the shots, he is the Master. I am the toy; I am the one owned I am the sub, I serve him. I guess I realized that it is up to me to be submissive, and to serve him because ultimately it makes him happy and me happy. I love being his and making him feel good. I will be rewarded with some bondage and a good flogging, or if I keep up bratting eventually I push him into a punishment. Which yes, is giving me a wonderful show of his Dominance and puts me in my place in a real hurry making me feel submissive in seconds, but I much prefer the happy, BDSM play and the reminders of his dominance just because he feels like it. Pain from pleasure is so much sweeter then pain from punishment, well most of the time!:) Anyway I feel that if you are a sub then it is up to you to be submissive, even if your Dom is not being particularly dominant at the moment and well if he/she eventually roles over and refuses to show signs of domination well then that is a whole bigger problem. If you are Dominate then I am sure it is also in your best interest to dominate your submissive. So I guess the simple answer is you truly are the only one responsible for how you feel. Sorry to ramble, I hope this made sense.

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 16

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 2:46:51 PM

andreaC

Posts: 195
Joined: 10/15/2006
Status: offline

I have to agree with kalira.

Master and i are just being ourselves and it works wonderfully

.

_____________________________

andreaC - owned by Master Carrera2
Complete and extremely happy :)
Jeg elsker deg Herre

(in reply to Kalira)

Post #: 17

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 5:35:04 PM

LTRsubNW

Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

While I realize that this is an opinion question (of course it is) AND I realize that I know the answer already, I thought it might lead to some good discussion.

I've seen in a number of threads that subs/slaves feel it when their Master is not being "masterly" and so they don't feel that driving need or desire to submit. Who's responsibility is it in the relationship to maintain the dynamic, in your opinion? Should the Master be, at all times, expected to maintain an attitude which draws forth the submissive? Should a slave be, at all times, expected to maintain their attitude of service?

Why or why not, for both questions.

Master Fire

The Domme's.

(I'm so glad I'm a sub and don't have to shoulder this).

Did this help?

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 18

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 6:56:57 PM

Fitznicely

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

I agree with those who've said it's both parties' resposibility to maintain the dynamic.

In a 24/7 TPE, M/s, whatever situation (which is all I have experience of), it's easy enough because you naturally fill those roles. I'm naturally Dominant, so all I have to do is be Me. she's naturally submissive...

You get the picture.

We have times when we interact as equals, we have times when I am more assertive. We also have play times when we go to whatever extremes suit us at that point.

I coudn't switch. I've tried being sub and it's just not for me. I desire open and honest control and topping from the bottom just isn't my style at all. My girl can switch if it's with another girl and that's fine because she's still subservient to Me.

To us, it's simply a matter of living our lives the way that fits and suits best.

_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to LTRsubNW)

Post #: 19

RE: Who's responsible? - 11/27/2006 7:29:35 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

Both..It is a dynamic it is an exchange it is a relationship.........Takes 2 (or more, for the poly relationships) to keep the flow.....Tempting

(in reply to Fitznicely)

Post #: 20

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