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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:12:13 AM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


 I'll take a gamble and say that there will be few, if any, posts from people expressing that it'd make a difference....lol...It really wouldn't be the *done thing*. ..... It's only a guess but I'd lay odds on it.

agirl




(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:12:30 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?

I'd have a lot less to make sarcastic comments about.

But there's plenty more out there.

We all need our symbols.  If someone burned my Peep bunnies tomorrow, I'd be pretty darn devastated.  But I'd survive and move on.  "Protocols" have nearly no significance in my life, so them disappearing wouldn't affect me very much. 

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:14:47 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		PS Erin- you just need to define what you mean by "protocol"

How about "Expected ritualistic expressions of an authority dynamic/alternative lifestyle context between yourself and other(s)"?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:16:06 AM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline 		In regards to rt protocols (as opposed to online protocols):

If they ceased to exist then my core being would not be affected but the way we prefer to manifest our life would be.

If the ceased to exist then new protocols would quickly emerge.


_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:16:07 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I guess we'd just sit around not doing anything.

The desire would be there, but if we're talking about anything one does to signify ones' submission or dominance, well, we'd end up strictly avoiding any and all interaction whatsoever, as we just naturally do it, y'know?

Would be fun to log in and sit on the cyber/gorean chatrooms all day, watching everyone going "well, WTF do we do now then?"


_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:19:10 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		My question is an off shoot of a conversation I was having and I will elaborate more later as I have to leave....but....

I would have to think that long before there were protocols or floggers being incorporated into a bedroom....long before any of those outward expressions....long before even language existed....there were people who were Dominant or submissive inside their heads. But today I think that for many....those very things are the things that define who they are to themselves or others.

Don't know if any of that makes sense...my mind is often a muddled up place.....

Just one of those things making me go Hmmmmmm today.....

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~erin~

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"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:23:11 AM   
Missokyst


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Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Ok.. after reading more of your post I can see you mean online protocals.  Well, I never did that either.  Some of that slashy, third person stuff is too hard to stomach.  My eyes tend to gloss over. 
BUT.. I can see why some people need to do it.  If you are submitting or dominating in the Online world it seems like it would be helpful to define roles.
I do wonder if and when people make the transition to real (physical) meat space ds, if they still feel the need to use online protocals.
Kyst


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:24:32 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee


Put this way I would have to say that a relationship without rituals is like a garden without flowers. The desire to dominate or submit is just the seed. How would you know what the seed really contains or if it really lives? If you remove all the outward expression of that desire then where is the life, the joy, the fun?

It is not enough to simply desire or to try and preserve that desire in some sterile suspension. Keep the life in Lifestyle.



I'm going to have to disagree with this. It's not the rituals and protocols which are the flowers. What just happened here a few minutes ago is a perfect illustration of my point.

I was just in the kitchen taking the eggs off the boil. Himself was in the living room having a sandwhich and called out to me..

"Hey, babe.. can you bring me a glass of water."

I could have responded, "Yes, Master" and brought him the water or "Sure" and brought him the water.. or "You got legs, get your own damn water." The 'flower' is the knowledge that even if I didn't respond with any kind of verbal indication, he 'knew' he was getting that water. Without the 'knowledge', that would be vanilla and 'that' to me, would be the garden without flowers.

YMMV

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 11/29/2006 11:25:26 AM >

_____________________________

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:28:41 AM   
Fitznicely


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Joined: 10/18/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

My question is an off shoot of a conversation I was having and I will elaborate more later as I have to leave....but....

I would have to think that long before there were protocols or floggers being incorporated into a bedroom....long before any of those outward expressions....long before even language existed....there were people who were Dominant or submissive inside their heads. But today I think that for many....those very things are the things that define who they are to themselves or others.

Don't know if any of that makes sense...my mind is often a muddled up place.....

Just one of those things making me go Hmmmmmm today.....


Are you asking whether our rules or our feelings define us?


_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:58:40 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


No.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:05:18 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

I guess we'd just sit around not doing anything.



You know.  The last "day off" I had from either job was Thanksgiving, which I spent almost the entire day cleaning my apartment.  The time before that was the Wednesday previous to that where I was basically too beaten up and sore from one of my jobs to get out of bed. 

Today, my apartment is clean.  I am tired from getting beaten up last night, but not overly so.

However, I feel a deep sense of loss and alienation, as if the protocols which guide my fevered brain through extant reality have all gone poof while I was sleeping, leaving me unable to do anything but sit around uselessly.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy


_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Fitznicely)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:11:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I should amend this, there is one written protocol I would miss... but it is not mentioned in the OP

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:30:24 PM   
NINASHARP


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Joined: 4/23/2006
From: NJ/NYC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fitznicely

I guess we'd just sit around not doing anything.



You know.  The last "day off" I had from either job was Thanksgiving, which I spent almost the entire day cleaning my apartment.  The time before that was the Wednesday previous to that where I was basically too beaten up and sore from one of my jobs to get out of bed. 

Today, my apartment is clean.  I am tired from getting beaten up last night, but not overly so.

However, I feel a deep sense of loss and alienation, as if the protocols which guide my fevered brain through extant reality have all gone poof while I was sleeping, leaving me unable to do anything but sit around uselessly.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



Sinergy,

Thats so sad. I hope that tomorrow is a better day.

Nina

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:44:08 PM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		No, I don't see that it would at all for me.  I guess because my Master and I don't really follow any certain ones.  I don't call him Sir, or have to ask permission for things, we just know in a natural way who is in charge in our relationship.  The only thing I really follow with him at all, is being respectful, but that isn't really protocol, it's just being considerate to his position.
 
I  used to think I had to have all of that, the formalities, the showing of control, etc to feel like I was owned.  I can see now that the only reason I needed those things, was there was something missing in that relationship.  Now, I just have those feelings without all of the crap.  I am enjoying it a lot more this way.  We still have those moments where we scene and things are a bit more formal, but for our day to day lives it's all pretty normal.
 
To each their own though, I don't put down anyones way of doing things.  I know we all have different things that work for us.
 
Kasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

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(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:49:56 PM   
RUpainsmith


Posts: 42
Joined: 11/13/2006
Status: offline 		I tend to disagree with the Zensee; I don't feel that rituals are an inherent and necessary aspect of a D/s or M/s relationship.  Whether or not a submissive person ends her sentence with Sir does not indicate her willingness to maintain a certain dynamic.  It's a personal preference; to me, formal protocols are not so important.

Adam

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:55:06 PM   
MasterFireMaam


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Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are

No...look like a duck, walk like a duck...most likely a duck.


quote:

how you identify

No...but it might change how express how I explain my identification to others. Labels and constructs are handy shortcuts. Take them away and you take away the shortcuts.


quote:

or how you interact with a partner?

Yes. There are things that I have other do that remind us who owns who. If I can't say, "Continue." and them answer, "Ma'am, yes Ma'am." I'd have to choose something different. That would mean, by logic, we're interacting differently.

Although, I might be taking your meaning to be too literal. If you're simply asking if I would still be interacting with them as a Master, then no, how I interact wouldn't change.


quote:

Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?

Probably for a while. I'd then simply invent new ones. I LIKE these things. They trip my triggers. Getting what I want and like is a serious advantage to the Ms relationship that I enjoy.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 12:58:58 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Put this way I would have to say that a relationship without rituals is like a garden without flowers. The desire to dominate or submit is just the seed. How would you know what the seed really contains or if it really lives? If you remove all the outward expression of that desire then where is the life, the joy, the fun?

It is not enough to simply desire or to try and preserve that desire in some sterile suspension. Keep the life in Lifestyle.



If I understand what you are saying is, the way you know you have a relationship is by constantly demonstrating the dynamics of the relationship through a chosen set of actions which reflect your desires.  And, if there is no demonstration you will be unaware that the relationship exists.

Is that right?


_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:07:37 PM   
MstrssPassion


Posts: 2444
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: West Palm Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


I haven't read the rest of the replies... this is in reply to the OP alone.

These things you mention have absolutely no bearing in my life. Namely because I do not view these examples as protocol (at least not in my own dynamic). So if they were to go poof... I wouldn't notice a thing until I had one of those moments that make you go hmmmm.... like not having to decipher encrypted posts that use these methods of expression. 

Third person speak doesn't do a thing for me. My view of one who surrenders to me is to be the very best that they can be & somehow speaking in third person gives me the impression that they don't measure up & that they somehow diminish their existence. As for that whole slashy net-speak jibberish, it is purely a chat room creation. 

_____________________________

MstrssPassion


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:14:12 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


In regards to the online stuff...no. For the greatest majority ...like 98%...of my communication with others involved in D/s, I communicate in the same way that I do with vanilla people. The other t2% is, to me and to those I am communicating with, the items of courtesy that we like to use with each other.

In real life...I would probably be, if not thrown, at least a bit off-kilter. But then, as someone else noted, I would probably invent new ways of dealing with each other. I like rules and structure though the extent is between myself and whatever partners I've had or will have in the future. I don't go for a lot of it but I am not interested in living in what would be, for me anyway, chaos. I grew up in a home where there were rules and discipline, I did time in the military as a peon and then as a non-com and there were certainly rules there, and my work requires me to follow rules and procedures. In all actuality, I've yet to see one relationship wherein no structure = complete happiness.

I also think that the expression itself of dominance and submission to each other in effect sets up the beginning of ritual even if it is only couple-specific.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:29:14 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Assuming that we are using the standard English definition of protocols, being n established and agreed upon way of doing something.
I guess we would all have to make up new protocols. I hear all the folks decrying protocols claiming they have none but given a day observing them as they interact I would bet ne could find a dozen or more. (even if they don't seem to have anything in common with the stereotyped protocols)

WE establish a protocol anytime we set a standard way f oing anything we do in relation to each other, So if they all poofed from our collective conciousness at midnight I'm sure we would formulate new ones within  wek that would be even less standardized than what we have now.

As an example driving on the right side opf the road is the protocol in the US.

< Message edited by Archer -- 11/29/2006 1:30:33 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 40
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