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RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:30:19 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?

Absolutly not.

edited to add:

but, if I woke up tomorrow and could not call or refer to him as 'Master"....hmmm, it would not change who I am or who he is...but dayum...I don't think I could him by his first name lol

< Message edited by Kalira -- 11/29/2006 1:31:26 PM >

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:49:22 PM   
Zensee


Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

If I understand what you are saying is, the way you know you have a relationship is by constantly demonstrating the dynamics of the relationship through a chosen set of actions which reflect your desires.  And, if there is no demonstration you will be unaware that the relationship exists.

Is that right?


Thank you for asking and not just judging, MissTress. It is my fault for choosing an analogy to illustrate an inponderable.

As above so below - as within so without. The rituals without intent are hollow. The intent without expression is mute.

The short answer is - Yes and No. I am saying that without expression, what's the point of calling it D/s or even a relationship? Why not call it Fred? (With apologies to all the Freds out there.)

An artist without a medium is still an artist but where's the art?

MoE's original question is really unanswerable because the two cannot be separated, not even conceptually, as we can see from some replies here. A person says the protocols don't have any real significance then describes a protocol they have which they claim isn't one. If there is no word or gesture accompanying the act then that is still protocol, a ritual of wordless obedience. Any act which recognises the existence of a D/s dynamic IS protocol, however casual it may appear. Every act is infused with meaning.

Q: when does an act become a ritual? A: When one says so.

Z.



_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 1:59:00 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		If the protocols and stuff vanished, it wouldn't change my submissive nature to my partner, it would however disclude our relationship from being a D/s one within a bdsm context. i.e I would no longer be slave, just my submissive sweet self.

Addititon: I would however remain a "slave" to love

< Message edited by slavejali -- 11/29/2006 2:00:23 PM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 4:05:18 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


No.

_____________________________

Small deeds will always mean more than large intentions.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 4:47:17 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LOL.. OK.. this is very bad of me but.. I once met a cop as a part of a robbery where I was a witness.  He was cute, kept coming around and finally asked me out.  Having a fondness for officers, I accepted and we hit it off enough to go out on a few dates.  The only problem was.. I knew him as the detective who handled the robbery.  Not, ____Smith.  I called him handsome, and a variety of other names one might use if you didn't recall a name.  We had so much fun on that first date discussing crime stuff (yes I am a junkie!), I completely didn't think of finding out his name.
Ok.. one date goes by and the next rolls around.  How does one say, excuse me..? I didn't catch your name.  Two weeks later, it was impossible!  LOL.. I finally found his name out by introducing him to my sister when he came to pick me up for our date.  "I said This is Margie my sister."  Elininating his name in return.  SHE (who was clued into my dilemma), said to him.  "Just call me Marg, and your name is?"  WHEW.. His name was John, btw. 
I have always been bad with names.  But I really make it a point to know their name before seeing .. err.. more.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

I don't think I could him by his first name lol


_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 4:58:51 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


No, it wouldn't change things. Master is still Master, i am still His slave. He likes me to do the capping thing as a discipline but it doesn't change things really. It's power exchange not protocol exchange *grin*

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 6:25:53 PM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline 		For me some protocols are just those yucky candy letters one puts on a birthday cake---some people need them and can't have a cake without them.   I can live without the C/c, the traditional chat collar (squeakers_SomeDom), I can even live without the Yes Sir or  Humble Lord and Master all Higher than me Powerful One but the power exchange of the relationship is the cake and icing.   That part, is needed to make it complete.   Can I have this without calling him Master, without floggers and canes, gags and bondage---yes of course.  

(in reply to slavemaia)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 6:34:38 PM   
Denny17


Posts: 86
Joined: 11/5/2006
Status: offline 		i would get out more emails

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 7:03:05 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

quote:

ORIGINAL: yourMissTress

If I understand what you are saying is, the way you know you have a relationship is by constantly demonstrating the dynamics of the relationship through a chosen set of actions which reflect your desires.  And, if there is no demonstration you will be unaware that the relationship exists.

Is that right?


Thank you for asking and not just judging, MissTress. It is my fault for choosing an analogy to illustrate an inponderable.

As above so below - as within so without. The rituals without intent are hollow. The intent without expression is mute.

The short answer is - Yes and No. I am saying that without expression, what's the point of calling it D/s or even a relationship? Why not call it Fred? (With apologies to all the Freds out there.)

An artist without a medium is still an artist but where's the art?

MoE's original question is really unanswerable because the two cannot be separated, not even conceptually, as we can see from some replies here. A person says the protocols don't have any real significance then describes a protocol they have which they claim isn't one. If there is no word or gesture accompanying the act then that is still protocol, a ritual of wordless obedience. Any act which recognises the existence of a D/s dynamic IS protocol, however casual it may appear. Every act is infused with meaning.

Q: when does an act become a ritual? A: When one says so.

Z.


This analogy I have to agree with....Tempting

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 7:37:56 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NINASHARP

Sinergy,

Thats so sad. I hope that tomorrow is a better day.

Nina


Thank you, Nina, for the lovely words.

I signed on for the tour of duty teaching full contact self defense, which has aspects to it that are extremely empowering for the student, so I knew what I was getting in to from the get-go.

I will be fine.  I personally know that life and living requires a certain amount of recovery time, and today was my recovery time.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to NINASHARP)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 8:16:39 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		ok...this is what got me to thinking today....

I had a conversation with a girlfriend and we were talking about the ways we get approached by some Dominants who start off running with the emphasis on the "kinks". I mentioned that while it is a huge turnoff for me....there must be at least some with whom this approach would be successful or there wouldn't be so many Dominants who lead with their dicks. I told her that I just don't see the attraction to that.

She responded, "That's because if you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the kinks were gone, the rituals, the protocols, the titles, the gestures, the toys, the dungeons, the munches, the play parties....all of them....gone...or even if they never existed in the first place....you would still be you. You'd still be submissive and you would still have that burning desire going on inside of you. The "kinks" and all of the rest isn't what the draw is for you. For some, that is exactly the draw. Those things are what attracted them here. Those things are their membership card in this lifestyle. They are here because those things are here. We didn't invent this shit though and you can believe that there were Dominant and submissive people since the beginning of time even though they weren't called that. People who had those same things that burned inside of them that you do. If this lifestyle didn't exist in any form that we know it as today, you'd still be the same....for you it wouldn't change much."

So that got me to wondering....





_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 8:18:46 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?

Not really.  I didnt start using any of the protocols until I joined this site.  If they ceased to be, then I doubt Id miss them much. Angel and I dont tend to ue them within our normal communication, so theres no real impact there.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 8:35:13 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

She responded, "That's because if you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the kinks were gone, the rituals, the protocols, the titles, the gestures, the toys, the dungeons, the munches, the play parties....all of them....gone...or even if they never existed in the first place....you would still be you. You'd still be submissive and you would still have that burning desire going on inside of you. The "kinks" and all of the rest isn't what the draw is for you. For some, that is exactly the draw. Those things are what attracted them here. Those things are their membership card in this lifestyle. They are here because those things are here. We didn't invent this shit though and you can believe that there were Dominant and submissive people since the beginning of time even though they weren't called that. People who had those same things that burned inside of them that you do. If this lifestyle didn't exist in any form that we know it as today, you'd still be the same....for you it wouldn't change much."



I can identify with that. It's difficult when I'm approached by a Dominant who is only looking for kinks and/or sex. While I have nothing against them, I'm much more interested in the control and being submissive than participating in kinks. I like protocols, but I don't need more than "be respectful and use good manners" for a protocol. I am submissive regardless of the situation with or without kinks, with or without protocols. It's who I am and how I live my life every day. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one like me then I read this and feel comforted knowing there are others who "get" what I am cuz they are too. Thank you.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 8:41:06 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		With my primary, it's just how we're oriented as people. There really isn't much of a protocol - it's in his nature to go the extra mile to please me because it's how he just is. I was kind of hung up about the lack or protocol for a while, as I'd had a lot more SM miles on me than he had, but ultimately I really like this best for my day-to-day - it's less splashy but very good for people who share the same space most often.

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 9:02:46 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Mist, the reality is that we know a great majority of people come to kink as an escape for something else when they don't make it work, looking to it as a cure, feeling a lacking in their life they need to feed. 

Instead of reaching within for solace and security...they blunder externally for whatever symbols and trappings help relieve the pressure.

Ultimately, none of them ever work and so many end up disillusioned, fleeing, still unhappy.

This is not to suggest that symbols and trappings are bad, simply that we must use them for what they are, and not allow them to use us.



_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Grlwithboy)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 9:33:05 PM   
Najakcharmer


Posts: 2121
Joined: 5/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?


I would whoop for joy and congratulate everyone on making a successful reality check and waking up from the fantasy that it's cool to act out your kinky roleplaying with the entire fucking internet.  News flash: teh internets is not your consenting partner.  So save it for thems that are.

Edit:  didn't realize the question included protocol and titles within a consenting relationship.  In which case my answer would be that it would not particularly affect me one way or another as I do not personally like most of the conventional titles and do not use them in my personal relationships.  I would feel bad for other folks who do like to use them and who feel that the titles or protocol are an integral part of their self-identity or their relationships. 


< Message edited by Najakcharmer -- 11/29/2006 9:55:25 PM >

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 9:59:39 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

My core nature is to submit myself to him.  I began submitting to him before his preferences of how I would submit were ever expressed.  So if protocols and such disappeared, he would still own my power, and he would still own me, and I would still submit to him.  However, I don't think he'd be too thrilled that I had ceased to do things as he wants me to. Submit without rules?  I spent 2 1/2 years learning his every quirk, idiosyncracy, preference, delight, irritant, etc.  He wants my hair a certain length, style and color.  Is that a protocol?  If I stopped presenting myself to him as he wants his slave presenting herself, then I have ceased to submit to a rule.

I dunno, the question is confusing to me.  I was submissive before the rules existed.  He dominated me before the rules were established.  Now I submit precisely the way he wants.  Why would we want to change that?

Now, if for whatever reason - maybe medical - I couldn't present myself to him as he prefers, I believe our dynamic would not change at all.  He dominates my mind first, after all.

(in reply to Najakcharmer)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 10:46:21 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

ok...this is what got me to thinking today....

I had a conversation with a girlfriend and we were talking about the ways we get approached by some Dominants who start off running with the emphasis on the "kinks". I mentioned that while it is a huge turnoff for me....there must be at least some with whom this approach would be successful or there wouldn't be so many Dominants who lead with their dicks. I told her that I just don't see the attraction to that.

She responded, "That's because if you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the kinks were gone, the rituals, the protocols, the titles, the gestures, the toys, the dungeons, the munches, the play parties....all of them....gone...or even if they never existed in the first place....you would still be you. You'd still be submissive and you would still have that burning desire going on inside of you. The "kinks" and all of the rest isn't what the draw is for you. For some, that is exactly the draw. Those things are what attracted them here. Those things are their membership card in this lifestyle. They are here because those things are here. We didn't invent this shit though and you can believe that there were Dominant and submissive people since the beginning of time even though they weren't called that. People who had those same things that burned inside of them that you do. If this lifestyle didn't exist in any form that we know it as today, you'd still be the same....for you it wouldn't change much."

So that got me to wondering....






I relate submissively to my significant others whether I called it that or I didn't. I tend to agree with your friend, it is not about sex, it is how one relates with their mate. I relate as the submissive partner and have no trouble accepting that role.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/29/2006 11:13:57 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'd tell her to go back to Square One and start referring to herself as Cunt again.  If the right protocols don't exist, you have to make your own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

If you woke up tomorrow morning and all of the protocols, the third person speech, the C/capping of letters...all of it....had just simply "poofed".....would it change who you are, how you identify or how you interact with a partner? Would you be at a loss without those "accepted" means of expressing your position?

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: If all the protocols ceased to exist.... - 11/30/2006 4:53:59 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		Sagittarians rock. Sends celeste a box of cereal with a decoder ring hidden in it. Some protocols are necessary. On line ones I mosty ignore. I PM without asking. You don't ask everyone in real life for permission to talk to them so why do it online.  

(in reply to Zensee)
Profile   Post #: 60
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