RE: How submissiveness feels

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Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/5/2006 8:50:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetnurseBBW The closest way I can describe it is, feeling like a kid on Christmas eve and morning. Excited, anxious, giddy, happy , loved, warm and natural. _____________________________ proud collared slave of LocutusofBorg And if you don't care to pry it apart any further than that, that's fine. Thank you for sharing with us. No offense whatever to your owner but his name always reminds me of that joke about DyslexicOfBorg, who of course is famous for saying: Resistance is futile. Your ass will be laminated! Might make a damn good top, huh?

SusanofO -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/5/2006 8:54:24 PM)
I feel like I used to when I used to get a little "tipsy" (which I haven't done for many, many years as I don't drink anymore at all). "Pleasantly unaware of any danger whatsoever" (even in a situation that might seem dangerous) is the best way to maybe put it - yet still aware of what is going on around me. Which isn't to say I might not be scared of whatever is happening on an intellectual level - I might know I have a reason to be afraid - and be scared. But - physically, my body just isn't reacting in accordance with the "facts." It's yawning and stretching instead. For instance: In that frame of mind, someone could set the room I'm in on fire, and I'd love watching it, and be fascinated, and act as if there is no problem. I might realize there is one, but I wouldn't really react to it with any urgency. I might think to myself (instead of thinking: "Gee, I need to get the heck out of here") instead: "Oh what interesting patterns those flames make on the wall..." and not really feel very worried or upset..and just feel like I want to keep watching to see what happens next. Almost outside myself, in a way. I like it. It can be like watching a movie, in some instances. This general state of mind can range from excited to drowsy and physically manifests (as far as excitement) as: Breathing faster and heavier and also feeling an impending weight I am holding inside myself that is growing (this part is hard to explain) like a dam about to burst but I am holding it back because I want it to not do that yet (a little like a low-level orgasm, (or even a more powerful one) but throughout my entire body). But - it's not an "urgent" feeling like something that needs to be completed. Instead, it's kind of "floaty" but still very powerful, like some force is over-taking me; like some powerful wind I'm being enveloped and swept up in. As far as how it manifests if I am feeling "drowsy" it's almost like I'm being slowly (or quickly) dragged into a dream and I actually am conscious of what's happening but whatever that is - even if it's painful, I don't care and just want to experience it and don't have any desire to "fight the feeling" on any level. That doesn't desribe the physiology of it all that well, but - In either case, it's almost always been (for me) pleasant, even when it's painful. - Susan

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/5/2006 9:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Daddysredhead Thank you for taking such time and care in your replies, Noah. I found it interesting how you were able to find religious/philosophical elements in the various things that I wrote as I had not really thought about them that way exponentially. (Maybe a fleeting notion at first blush, but not so in depth as you did.) Just as a point of interest, I took a great many courses in religion (east and west) while in college, and found your comparisons with my post intriguing. Thank you for bringing back some very pleasant memories to me. [:)] You're welcome. quote: quote: So did you ask him what "natural" felt like? I mean, physically? I did not, but I can assure you that I will. Well I wasn't suggesting that the question would be a good idea. I hope it turns out painfully well for you in any case. quote: ... someone who, like yourself, tries to dissect and break down somewhat intangible things into tangible parts. I find it terribly fascinating, and poor Daddy, He is probably just thinking... "not again." giggles [:D] I try pretty hard to examine things from different angles without actually carving them to bits and dissolving them, when I can. This thread is among other things an attempt to examine something--still whole and breathing and squirming--from a number of perspectives not directly available to me. Thanks for your help with it. While engaged in something analytical I try to keep at least one channel carefully tuned to the wholistic station, so to speak. I find that if I proceed carefully I can usually move through without too much collateral damage. Of course a good deal of mayhem and carnage resulted in the years before I learned the value of this. Mea maxima culpa. But enough of my confessions. Let's hear from some more subbies.

mistoferin -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/5/2006 9:01:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah Well I have some second-hand experience with lactation in various contexts but of course in the end I have to do some imagining and extrapolating to try to appreciate that part of your description. That's fine, though. Thank you for offering us the best description you had. I went in search to find something that would describe the effects of oxytocin that might better help you understand the feeling. What I ended up finding surprised even myself. I was under the belief that oxytocin was a hormone that was secreted only during breastfeeding. It turns out that it is secreted during sexual activity by both men and women also and can even be triggered by thoughts of relationship experiences. It is said on another site to be thought of as the hormone of love. It lowers blood pressure and cortisol levels, lowers stress, increases pain tolerance and alleviates anxiety. Of particular interest though is that the article said that it is involved in social recognition, bonding and the formation of trust between people. Interesting. It makes me wonder if oxytocin does play a role. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin I was unaware of the Valium Analog. I did a search to learn more about it but I wasn't able to find much.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/5/2006 9:10:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin I went in search to find something that would describe the effects of oxytocin that might better help you understand the feeling. What I ended up finding surprised even myself. I was under the belief that oxytocin was a hormone that was secreted only during breastfeeding. It turns out that it is secreted during sexual activity by both men and women also and can even be triggered by thoughts of relationship experiences. It is said on another site to be thought of as the hormone of love. It lowers blood pressure and cortisol levels, lowers stress, increases pain tolerance and alleviates anxiety. Of particular interest though is that the article said that it is involved in social recognition, bonding and the formation of trust between people. Interesting. It makes me wonder if oxytocin does play a role. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxytocin I was unaware of the Valium Analog. I did a search to learn more about it but I wasn't able to find much. Thanks for the oxytocin info. I appreciate the way you carefully referred to associations revealed by the research without without jumping to Careless Causal Conclusions. My acupuncturists studied under someone kind of unconventional. Maybe that term originates with him. I'm not sure how widely he has published but his school of thought seems to be gaining some proponents. I'll try to remember to get a reference for you the next time I'm impaled.

ownedgirlie -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 12:32:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah What's it worth to ya, girlie? quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Noah, If you don't mind, I am curious as to what motivated you to ask the question...? Ohhh he wants to negotiate, does he? It's an intriguing question, and one that likely doesn't just pop into someone's head on a whim. [;)]

dawntreader -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 5:41:16 AM)
Very interesting thread...i have enjoyed reading all the different responses to your question, Noah. Submission for me is extremely spiritual - the completion of yin and yang, not just within myself but the dynamics of the relationship with another. To me, there cannot be one without the other...like this post from Mercnbeth, it is a state of being - not something turned on and off... With this state of being is the mental and physical feeling of being small but i also associate this with loss of "ego" and a focus on service. When in a relationship with a Dominant, my submissiveness does manifest physically with my sexuality and i maintain a constant state of arousal which i am sure i do not need to detail here :-) quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth this slave has tried, but does not relate to the responses to your thread which describe a distinct difference of physical sensations when they are in submissive mode or when someone or some activity makes them “feel” submissive, as opposed to how they feel in non-submissive mode. For this slave, it isn’t a mode, it just IS.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 8:42:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo The first word that comes to mind is "conflict". Submission feels like a conflict. In some ways, submission, to me, is like the proverbial dance with the devil. It makes me feel nervous and intimidated and scared of the unknown, and self-conscious.....horribley self-conscious, but I cant resist it's draw. Submission is usually a physical and emotional discomfort to me, but at the same time it feels like home. God, you are a sadly twisted little bitch, aren't you? Now relax, everybody. That's like a cookie to our marie. The kind she favors, with thumbtacks in it. quote: It's not pretty and shiney for me...It's a dark and twisted place that I have to visit. I don't think it's a healthy place to be in; I never have. But I can and will continue to go there, simply because it calls me and I'm weak against it. Without it I feel like a flatliner walking through life. Dontcha love it when they just detail their vulnerabilities for you, guys? quote: It's almost as if suffering at the hands of a harsh motherfucker makes me feel more alive, while at the same time goes against all I believe to be 'right'. Maybe it's the very conflict of it that I love so much. I don't know. There are people who go really deep and manage to integrate the experience, get past the conflict. But if it is the inner turmoil that does it for you then transcending the conflict might kill the buzz for you. It seems to me that if you stay with it the conflict is very likely to resolve itself eventually unless you try hard to block it. And then realizing that you were consciously blocking something like that could deflate things itself. I hope that when or if that happens (the conflict resolves) it reveals something on the other side that can take it's place for you. Either that or the whole experience leaves you happily wherever you end up, with or without the continuing desire for a Bad Man. I've seen that sort of thing play out a couple of different ways. quote: I can't relate to this relaxed and centered feeling that so many of the others refer to, or the almost psychodelic feelings of floating etc. The only thing that comes close to this for me is when I'm kneeling and it feels like I cannot possibly get low enough for this person....there I find a moment of comfort. Beyond that, it's more like I'm one big emotional nerve, raw and exposed. This probably has alot to do with my choice of partners. Maybe someday I would like to experience all of this "warm and fuzzy", lovey dovey, protected and safe, stuff that some of the others talk about; just not any time soon. You just need to find a cruel and loving god to serve and suffer for. No probs.

behindmirrors -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 9:04:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah What does it feel like, for you--before, during, or after any actual interaction which might yield further sensations, to just "feel submissive"? Before: It's anticipation, an almost squirming feeling in my bones from the excitement. I am almost suspended in each moment, like a pause in music right before it flows, or a ballet dancer taking a timid yet strong step, articulating each part of it before it happens. During: To me, it's an almost languid peace that I feel in my entire body- like suddenly having tremenous grace fill you in each muscule fiber. It feels alive- in this sense of bright openess- almost that sense of wonder that one feels when discovering things for the first time as a child, with nothing outside of that moment to shape your thoughts. It is all sensation, my mind generally free of much thought, just living each moment. It feels clean and new again. After: I am usually deliciously exhausted, my body amplified a thousand times over in it's sensitivity...everything feels awakened and content, needing nothing and pleased to be alive and happy. I hope this helps...sheesh, I could have been more direct in just leaving some poetry as an answer. behindmirrors.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 9:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize quote: ORIGINAL: Noah Not sure what you meant by dichotomy there, ******** I am continually surprised by the pride. Driving home after a weekend at my master’s house, reviewing in my head how I was abased, humbled, used; and I feel no shame. “You should be ashamed of yourself” was a frequent maternal mantra in my formative years. It seems that I have overcome that. When I am obedient to master’s will, there is little that humiliates me, because whatever is done is pleasing to him. And so I see a dichotomy, for wouldn’t a “normal” person feel shame? Are you calling marieToo normal? But yeah, weird intersections of various sorts of "normality". I mean is it "normal" to want it in the first place? Even staying with a statisitical sense of normal for a minute. So then do we have proclivity normality vs. some kind of ethical normality? What a lovely little stew it is for those abnormal enough to want to swim around in it without the ballast of the desire to boil it down to this or that, never noticing all the beautiful awful stuff that escapes in the steam. quote: But I feel “aloft in abasement” to quote one of my own poems. Talk about scrambled up notions of high and low. Now is that suspension play in a cellar or some grand perversity of an architectural kind? I gotta read some of those poems. quote: quote: but thank you so much for those fecund analogies. There are all sorts of ways to describe feelings and sensations. You seem to be pretty handy with that one. ******* Thank you for your words of appreciation on my writing style. You're welcome. Maybe next you can master the quote tags. Don't think of it as technical. Think of it as syntactical. You know about syn tactics, don't you? quote: quote: quote: Sometimes it feels like duty, sometimes it feels like joy. And that sentence ought to be carved somewhere. Any suggestions? ******* <grins> Yeah, I have a few ideas but it would depend on whether you want it to be a personal reminder message for me or someplace where it could be seen by the general public! Maybe we could carve it on the loft in the basement.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 9:27:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: onestandingstill For me feeling submissive comes when there's someone I am emotionally able to let my guard down with and let into my inner sanctum. It's a place for me where there's nothing left to hide behind to protect my self from someone. It's knowing I don't have to be in control or in charge and that I'm still safe without anything covering over my most vulnerable parts of me. In my normal day to day life I feel like I have to control what I say and how much I let someone know about the things inside me that are fragile. When I submit I give those fragile things to my Dom to hold so they are no longer something I have to hold on to or guard over knowing he will keep them safe or make them not weak spots but strong ones as well. In a nut shell submission to my One gives me freedom from fear. I can lay down my sword and know I'll be safe behind his instead. Thank you, onestandingstill. That account seems to be very much in terms of concepts and emotions, rich and deep ones. Would you care to say anything about the way it all, or any of it, feels physically?

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 9:36:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: impetuousone Oh dear...that oh so overwhelming submissive feeling comes without warning...there need be nothing said...not a touch.....just the presence of that dominant who "touches" my soul... My body will instantly take on a feeling of being open....connected... with each breath I take I feel the rush of dominance flowing through me....and like the tide I feel my submission being pulled from me....it feels like he is flowing into me, quite literally... every muscle tenses, yet there is such a feeling of muscle weakness....vulnerability.... My knees will tremble ....my entire body will shake....The feeling of breathlessness overwhelms me....my stomach is tied into knots...gawd, I love it!!!! With a set of responses like those it wouldn't be surprising to learn that you deserve your nickname. Thank you, impetuousone. For you excitement seems to represent the overall character of the experience, made up of all those particular particulars. One theme which seem to run through a majority of these accounts is suprising juxtaposition or even paradox.

marieToo -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 9:59:27 PM)
quote: God, you are a sadly twisted little bitch, aren't you? Why all the sweet talk? Is today my birthday or something? <Amateur> quote: There are people who go really deep and manage to integrate the experience, get past the conflict. But if it is the inner turmoil that does it for you then transcending the conflict might kill the buzz for you. Hard for me to finger it exactly. I dont know if it's the conflict itself that does it for me, I just know that its there as part and parcel to the submission at all times. I think it's more a case of classic conditioning that this kind of stuff isnt 'normal', which makes me feel like Im doing something almost "dirty", which then makes it kinda thrilling. Hard to say. But honestly Im still embarressed of it too, which might explain the self consciouness when I am submitting. I think with more experiences I will become more comfy in my perviness. quote: You just need to find a cruel and loving god to serve and suffer for. No probs. Problem is all the cruel and loving gods are taken by the smart girls. The good ones have no use for a stupid cunt like me. <heh>

MasterWilliam55 -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 10:06:02 PM)
My late sub described it as a sense of "belonging". I suppose a santuary of sorts.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 10:14:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: God, you are a sadly twisted little bitch, aren't you? Why all the sweet talk? Is today my birthday or something? <Amateur> You don't imagine I'd roll out my good stuff for someone like you, do you? quote: quote: There are people who go really deep and manage to integrate the experience, get past the conflict. But if it is the inner turmoil that does it for you then transcending the conflict might kill the buzz for you. Hard for me to finger it exactly. I dont know if it's the conflict itself that does it for me, I just know that its there as part and parcel to the submission at all times. I think it's more a case of classic conditioning that this kind of stuff isnt 'normal', which makes me feel like Im doing something almost "dirty", which then makes it kinda thrilling. Hard to say. But honestly Im still embarressed of it too, which might explain the self consciouness when I am submitting. I think with more experiences I will become more comfy in my perviness. It turns out that "dirty" can be a very elaborate, involuting, evoluting, kink. Maybe when the present conflict fades you'll find yourself happy as a clam in a nice cold mudpuddle (and wondering what those voluting words mean.) But if you start getting comfortable it might be time for some more god-shopping. quote: quote: You just need to find a cruel and loving god to serve and suffer for. No probs. Problem is all the cruel and loving gods are taken by the smart girls. The good ones have no use for a stupid cunt like me. Well, yeah.

MagiksSlave -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 11:02:36 PM)
Happy Magik's slave

SusanofO -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/6/2006 11:20:46 PM)
I am not trying to hi-jack this thread, but felt compelled to say to marieToo: Dear darling marie, do you have to care if something is "normal"? I really doubt it at CM. There is nothing to be ashamed of, no matter how weird you might think you are. I really believe that. I'll admit there are folks I'd never discuss this with in my non-bdsm related dinner group, and there are bdsm things I'll probably never try (Scat comes to mind here) but - it's a personal preference and I don't think it's weird for those who want that (and I mean that - it's just not my cup of tea, is all). I just don't know what the word "norm" means, really, and I think it's gotten way to much credibility in people's minds sometimes. This might not be altogether relevant to whether it's important people "feel normal" or not, but - I spent some time doing reseach polls and helping to construct them, and people's responses are based on so many factors (besides the actual "objective"content of the question or statement they respond to in a poll or survey) that I'd bet even if there was a poll here at CM about how many people were into activity X vs. activity Y, it still wouldn't ever be completely reliable "data", no matter how carefully asked or constructed any survey would ever be. Who wants to be "normal?" Ick. Nobody seems to really know just what that is, anyway. How could one ever tell if one is actually "normal" ? I do think there can be a difference between "normal" and "generally accepted", and I think they can both shift, too. P.S. Your're not stupid!! Please don't say that anymore - ever! I always like reading your posts because they are interesting, marie. Sorry for interrupting the thread. Please carry on. - Susan

marieToo -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:46:57 AM)
quote: I am not trying to hi-jack this thread, but felt compelled to say to marieToo: Dear darling marie, do you have to care if something is "normal"? I really doubt it at CM. There is nothing to be ashamed of, no matter how weird you might think you are. Susan: Are you trying to seduce me? lol. I hear what you are saying and I appreciate your kindness. Im not ashamed, I was speaking more of an embarressment while submitting as one of the things i "feel". If I were to widdle it down better.... What I meant was (without getting detailed) I have found myself "doing things" in the name of obedience and submission, in which the act itself made me feel embarressed even though I enjoyed the submission to it. And I think that is partially because Im still not completely ok with being "this way". I mean....Im good with it. I wouldnt trade it, but I still have some 'demons' about it. quote: I really believe that. I'll admit there are folks I'd never discuss this with in my non-bdsm related dinner group, and there are bdsm things I'll probably never try (Scat comes to mind here) but - it's a personal preference and I don't think it's weird for those who want that (and I mean that - it's just not my cup of tea, is all). I just don't know what the word "norm" means, really, and I think it's gotten way to much credibility in people's minds sometimes. I agree and have concluded that some peeps have alot more to worry about than the fact that they like to hang from a tree and get fucked up the ass while eating a banana. quote: Who wants to be "normal?" Ick. Nobody seems to really know just what that is, anyway. How could one ever tell if one is actually "normal" ? I do think there can be a difference between "normal" and "generally accepted", and I think they can both shift, too. Yes, good point. I think abnormal sometimes just means "not the norm" not necessarily "deviant" or unaccepted. But as applied in this context, I understand what you're saying. quote: P.S. Your're not stupid!! Please don't say that anymore - ever! I always like reading your posts because they are interesting, marie. You are very sweet, Susan...I dont think I'm stupid. It was one of those tongue-in-cheek kinda things. This thread has generated some interesting insights from people....In fact, Im starting to think we should give Noah his own column here at CollarMe; "Noah's Daily Subbiscopes".

SusanofO -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 5:05:32 AM)
No I am not trying to seduce you (I'm not bi, or at least not yet - never say never - ha!), I just didn't want my comments want to sound "lectury" or threatening somehow (maybe not necessary as a concern, but anyway)...maybe you're just kind of shy about bdsm? I am not sure this has much to do, always, with how "experienced" (or not) someone is (everybody is different, after all). I know there are things (maybe lots of things) I have never tried and depending on who I am with, I am sure I could end up feeling more self-conscious than I'd like when trying them out, or more at ease (I realize people "decide how they feel all by themselves" and are "responsible for their own feelings" etc. But- in some cases I feel that line of thinking is BS in a lot of ways - and that who one is with can make quite a bit of difference as far as how comfortable and at ease one feels under-taking - whatever - as far as this kind of activity. Anyway, I've read there are some people who - even though they might be very "verbal" and communicate pretty well in the day-to-day, still feel basically shy around other people, or, for instance, in very intimate situations (like bdsm, and I do realize bdsm is not necessarily about sex, but power-exchange, but I still think, no matter how you want to slice it, some under-tones can always be felt along those sexual lines, which is a very intimate thing (to me). Just my opinion. Or maybe I am just a perv too, he). And, having just read justheather's comment (on the next page) I'm thinking that she is right - how one feels does probably have a lot to do with what kind of scenario one is experiencing. Some are definitely more intense* (or have that capacity) than others, and so it's another case of "it all depends" as far as how one is going to react, I think. The more intense, the more trust, and the more satisfying I know it can be - But - re: That "in-between" part, the part sometimes when one isn't all that sure what might happen next, can be physically different (for me), if it's a lot more intense than what has come immediately before (I haven't done "super intense" scenes a lot, so can't give a whole lot of examples personally here re: How I react (and the term "super-intense" is relative anyway). But - can say I know my body can tense up a lot, even if my mind "trusts" (yet still wonders, if even fleetingly, whether someone is going to really hurt me beyond what I can tolerate). I guess I can feel torn (briefly) between "holding it inside" and "letting it go" (my emotions and more tears), although I couldn't tell you why, probably, to save my life. It's not a "pride" or ego thing (I don't have that much of an ego, really). And anyway, it doesn't mean I can't sometimes really enjoy it, though (basing this on relatively limited experience). I never thought it was weird, really. I thought that's just how I am. I know there has been once or twice I've really hated how something felt (it had to do with belts, which was strange, because I usually like belts, but it was due to the method and not the implement), but - I had to go through with it and so I convinced myself I wanted the release more than I hated how it felt, and so one desire over-rode the other (and continuing, or not, wasn't really up to me anyway), and this bit of self-hynpnosis worked out pretty well in getting me through. But I digress. My first point, anwyay is this: Maybe you're a bit shy? So what? Nothing wrong with that is there? Some guys think it's charming and wouldn't have it any other way, I hear. I agree it's a really good thread topic. - Susan

catize -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 5:16:51 AM)
quote: But yeah, weird intersections of various sorts of "normality". I mean is it "normal" to want it in the first place? Even staying with a statisitical sense of normal for a minute. Viva la abnormal! We could debate normalcy forever, but what I have come to realize is that normal is over rated and in the end, doesn’t matter all that much. quote: So then do we have proclivity normality vs. some kind of ethical normality? Ethics don’t enter into it for me; consenting adults, no one is harmed and all that stuff. Ah, but my proclivities remain a deep dark secret from friends and family; is it shame or is it that I believe they don’t need or want to know? quote: What a lovely little stew it is for those abnormal enough to want to swim around in it without the ballast of the desire to boil it down to this or that, never noticing all the beautiful awful stuff that escapes in the steam. <swan dives into that pot> The thing I appreciate most about dominants is the fact that they can see the beauty in the ‘awful stuff’, not only wants but appreciates the submissive at her/his most primal, sweaty best (worst?) quote: Talk about scrambled up notions of high and low. Now is that suspension play in a cellar or some grand perversity of an architectural kind? An architectural pun, perhaps? A D/s play on words? It means whatever you want it to. quote: I gotta read some of those poems. ummm, wellll, errrrrrrrrrr............... quote: Maybe next you can master the quote tags. Got it! quote: You know about syn tactics, don't you? Syn tactics, syn taxes, syn fully syn ister

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