RE: How submissiveness feels

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justheather -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 5:17:11 AM)
quote: MarieToo said: I can't relate to this relaxed and centered feeling that so many of the others refer to, or the almost psychodelic feelings of floating etc. The only thing that comes close to this for me is when I'm kneeling and it feels like I cannot possibly get low enough for this person....there I find a moment of comfort. Beyond that, it's more like I'm one big emotional nerve, raw and exposed. This probably has alot to do with my choice of partners. Maybe someday I would like to experience all of this "warm and fuzzy", lovey dovey, protected and safe, stuff that some of the others talk about; just not any time soon. This made me stop and think about what, exactly, Im talking about when I say "Submission feels like this..." because the feelings that I have in my body when Im submitting to physical or emotional/psychological pain are not the same feelings that I have when I "feel submissive" in a moment when I am anticipating submitting to pain, submitting via an act of service, or simply engaged in a particular posture that amplifies the atunement I spoke of earlier. When I am in the midst of submitting to pain or something not particularly pleasant, there is a disequilibrium that manifests itself any number of ways...among them is that sense of conflict that you and katy spoke of, marie. Sometimes the unpleasantries begin without warning, and there is no time for the warm fuzzy letting go feelings. My parasypathetic nervous system does not have an opportunity to prime my body for acceptance. When that happens, it's all about the fight or flight feelings...the hyper-awareness, the quickening pulse, the butterflies in the stomach. Usually just after I become aware of these sensations, I try very hard to be present with the physical sensations associated with whatever is going on. The sense of conflict comes back over me in intermittent waves until Im just too tired to be conflicted and there is nothing left but the sweet release of tears and a wonderful endorphin rush. Certainly we choose our partners for a reason, so Im not at all suggesting you or katy or anyone else who isnt into the type of feelings I described earlier try something different...but I would like to just let you know that I believe it is possible to experience the warm fuzzy safeness in one moment and a split second later be flat on your face against a cold tile floor, not knowing how far he is going to go, if it will be "too much" for you, and giving in to the fact that he will go as far as he wants to because it's his right. It is also possible to experience the feelings I described earlier while still having a sense of conflict, even fear. I would venture to say, even, that in those moments where I am highly aware of my body and the physical manifestations of submission, there is an ever- so- thin thread of something like what you described that runs through the core of my body...more manifest in thought than feeling, but still barely tangible, that reminds me as I let go that he can do whatever he wants. In that moment, I give myself over to the choice that I made when I committed myself to submitting to him, and that thin thread becomes something around which all the wonderful feelings orbit. That is not to say that I feel warm and fuzzy through whatever comes next. Im impressed by the fact that you and others who have posted are practicing mindfulness in their submission. Being present in your body and attending to the physical manifestation of your submission, the unpleasant as well as the pleasant, requires, I think, a certain kind of bravery.

asubboy2spank -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 5:26:06 AM)
Submissiveness: standing on the edge of a cliff, do i jump and trust the winds?

asubboy2spank -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 5:29:42 AM)
By the way i am new to this forum stuff and have no idea how one ends up with the little icons under their names, although i love vanilla ice cream...........i doubt if anyone would describe me as vanilla

SusanofO -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 6:07:30 AM)
asubbyboy2spank: The icons are related to how many posts one has made on the CM message boards. There's some "key" or guide, that tells how many you need to go to the "next level" but I can't remember where it is located, but it's here on the CM boards somewhere (maybe a Mod would know?Or someone else can tell him if he wants to know)? I am sorry I can't think where the "icon key" is anymore. If you are concerned to be a vanilla ice cream cone, don't be. Everybody was one, and most people I know think the icons are sorta cute, but pay much more attention to what peope actually write, vs. their icon. Also, there are quite a few experienced people here, it appears, who, for instance, just don't post much on these message boards, and so they stay at a particular "icon level" for longer than some others. But - I just never pay much attention to that kind of thing, personally (but think the various icons are kind of a cute idea, overall). I myself have a somewhat anemic competetive streak, but I do like to write. Welcome! - Susan

adaddysgirl -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 6:18:05 AM)
Noah, i didn't read all the posts here, only the first couple of yours to try to get a better idea of what you were looking for....so now i'll take a shot at it. When with my former partner, i would have to say that overall, in everyday life, i didn't really experience much physical difference than in any other situation. But.... When it was time for discipline, there were 3 physical sensations i experienced (and in this order too) 1. When he said 'come here' in 'that voice' and i knew it was for discipline, the first thing that happened is that i would momentarily 'freeze' (both mentally and physically....everything came to a screeching halt...lol) 2. Then i would get this like tightness in my chest....and my heart beat would immediately increase. 3. And then i would get this knot in the pit of my stomach which went all the way down to my groin. When the spanking first started, my body was always quite tense......which always ended up changing to just the opposite by the time he was done. And afterward, as i sat on his lap bawlin' my eyes out, my body was always just kind of limp....perhaps relaxed....or moreso, drained of any possible activity other than just sitting there (mental or otherwise). You see, i hated the spankings but they probably, in themselves, made me feel more submissive than any other single act. Now i have to tell ya....i do feel something similar to this when i am called into the boss's office at work. As soon as she says 'could you come in here'....i momentarily freeze and then i get the chest thing goin' on. Yes, i also get the knot in the stomach but no, it doesn't go down to my groin....lol. Now when i knew we were going to do something sexual, i would get this tingle in my stomach (kind of like nervousness...or butterflies)....that would also go down to my groin. Quite a thing, no? [:D] But that was very much a sexual reaction than the other. So get this. We're getting ready to go out to dinner. He says 'when you get out of the shower, don't get dressed'. Hoo-eee! i immediately feel 'the tingle'. So all through the shower, i can feel the tingle and by the time i'm done, i've pretty much (mentally) worked myself into this 'sexual tizzy'. So you could only imagine my surprise when he walks in with a paddle (which meant a spanking for something that i had done earlier that i thought he had totally forgotten about). i could never imagine that physical reactions could change so quickly. Everything else flew out of my mind as again, i immediately froze, felt the heartbeart increase, and then the knot. Wowser! In any event, my submission starts in my brain....then moves downward in various ways...depending on that particular situation. Now i don't know how much sense this makes...or if anyone else wrote this as well because as i said, i did not read the other posts. But this is how it is for me. Ohhh...edited to add 'weak knees' (literally) in both cases. How did i forget the weak knees? [:D] DG

kisshou -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 9:23:23 AM)
nervous and fidgety

marieToo -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 2:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: catize The thing I appreciate most about dominants is the fact that they can see the beauty in the ‘awful stuff’, not only wants but appreciates the submissive at her/his most primal, sweaty best (worst?) Not only see the beauty in it but be proud of their creative ideas. What I like best about the D types is that they don't feel embarressment in it, they dont question it, they dont need to reconcile with it and what I love about this (and maybe this is wrong) but when I'm submitting, I dont have to own the responsibility for my desires. I sorta get to hide behind the fact that the D-type wants it and I'm just obeying, afterall. 0 :)

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:01:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied ~quick reply~ Just a thank you to Noah for starting this thread and responding to the posts. ~~kwikbakatcha~~ You're welcome, Katy. quote: Initially I was not going to respond to this thread. I made the mistake of starting to read the posts and after deciding that how I felt was too far out of the norm (I enjoy being out of the norm, but perhaps not in such an obvious, seemingly lacking way), I didn't want to invite any "you aren't sub enough" comments coming my way. I explained this to my Dom as we read the posts. At that point he told me to respond, "you know there are others who feel the same way you do." Aren't doms smart? And isn't it great the way that someone can help us by pointing out something we already probably know deep inside already but just needed the pointing out of? I'd hate to get off on the not-subenough track but I think, if anything, this thread has been illustrating that there are all kinds of ways to "be" submissive. I think it has also shown why talk about "being" submissive can be less fruitful than talk about how to discover one's submissiveness, how to explore it, inhabit it, express it. And furthermore I think it has given evidence that comparing "ways" is both more interesting and more worthwhile than trying to issue judgements about what (and who!) counts as More, and Less, This or That. Of course that all goes mutatis mutandis for the other side of power exchange, too. Thank you for posting.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:20:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied Just a thank you to Noah for starting this thread and responding to the posts. Yes, I will second that. Thank you Noah...this has been a great thread. I know it has been time consuming responding but your replies have really been as interesting to read as the initial responses. You're welcome too, mistoferin. It might have been nice if I could have kept up with replies in a more timely way, but priorities obtain. At that, I actually like the fact that the conversation has gone on in a leisurely, correspondence-rather-than-chat sort of way but without slewly wildly off track, becoming rancorous, or devolving into banalitudinousness. I think some people who are attracted to internet culture tend to have a hair trigger and a short attention span. The very idea of reinvigorating an old conversation (or thread) seems to be seen as boring, or even bad form by some. And the prospect of keeping a serious (but not too serious)conversation going along at a nice low boil is seen as either lame or just too much work. Have you seen those posts to long threads which say nothing but: "Are you guys still talking about the same thing? Why don't you get a life"? I enjoy taking part in conversations which have been going on for centuries by way of literature, art, and by way of praxis. When we build something or grow something or travel somewhere we can see ourselves as contributing to that sort of conversation too. What kind of reply is a ClubMed vacation to the Canterbury Tales or The Odyssey. I dunno. What kind of a reply is a commercial play party to Reage, that Leopold guy, and the Old Testament? Once again I dunno but I think they are more interesting question than who is going to be the next American Idol. So my thanks once again to everyone who has stopped by just to read or has troubled themselves to share and pay particular attention to the question in question.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:22:39 PM)
Chickenshit? ...or discovering healthy boundaries? You be the judge. quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo ok..well....that was here long enough. I swear I share too much with you people... :)

catize -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:33:41 PM)
quote: Not only see the beauty in it but be proud of their creative ideas. What I like best about the D types is that they don't feel embarressment in it, they dont question it, they dont need to reconcile with it grins Yeah, I like that part too, and their confidence helps me reconcile my own feelings about it. quote: and what I love about this (and maybe this is wrong) but when I'm submitting, I dont have to own the responsibility for my desires. I sorta get to hide behind the fact that the D-type wants it and I'm just obeying, afterall. I don't think its wrong at all.......I hope not anyway because giving over that control, letting master take the responsibilities is the biggest fun part of it for me!

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:34:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SusanofO I feel like I used to when I used to get a little "tipsy" (which I haven't done for many, many years as I don't drink anymore at all). "Pleasantly unaware of any danger whatsoever" (even in a situation that might seem dangerous) is the best way to maybe put it - yet still aware of what is going on around me. Which isn't to say I might not be scared of whatever is happening on an intellectual level - I might know I have a reason to be afraid - and be scared. But - physically, my body just isn't reacting in accordance with the "facts." It's yawning and stretching instead. For instance: In that frame of mind, someone could set the room I'm in on fire, and I'd love watching it, and be fascinated, and act as if there is no problem. I might realize there is one, but I wouldn't really react to it with any urgency. I might think to myself (instead of thinking: "Gee, I need to get the heck out of here") instead: "Oh what interesting patterns those flames make on the wall..." and not really feel very worried or upset..and just feel like I want to keep watching to see what happens next. Almost outside myself, in a way. I like it. It can be like watching a movie, in some instances. This general state of mind can range from excited to drowsy and physically manifests (as far as excitement) as: Breathing faster and heavier and also feeling an impending weight I am holding inside myself that is growing (this part is hard to explain) like a dam about to burst but I am holding it back because I want it to not do that yet (a little like a low-level orgasm, (or even a more powerful one) but throughout my entire body). But - it's not an "urgent" feeling like something that needs to be completed. Instead, it's kind of "floaty" but still very powerful, like some force is over-taking me; like some powerful wind I'm being enveloped and swept up in. As far as how it manifests if I am feeling "drowsy" it's almost like I'm being slowly (or quickly) dragged into a dream and I actually am conscious of what's happening but whatever that is - even if it's painful, I don't care and just want to experience it and don't have any desire to "fight the feeling" on any level. That doesn't desribe the physiology of it all that well, but - In either case, it's almost always been (for me) pleasant, even when it's painful. For the most part, no, it doesn't describe physiological stuff. But thanks for a nice little side trip into some more psychological observations. That penultimate paragraph though, for me, was pretty visceral and it nicely showed the tangled-upness of teh psychological and teh physiological in the context we're considering. Thanks, Susanof"Oh"

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:41:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Ohhh he wants to negotiate, does he? It's an intriguing question, and one that likely doesn't just pop into someone's head on a whim. [;)] I don't negotiate with terrorists. Or subbies. And we can just imagine what doesn't pop into your head head on a whim.

marieToo -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 3:47:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justheather quote: MarieToo said: I can't relate to this relaxed and centered feeling that so many of the others refer to, or the almost psychodelic feelings of floating etc. The only thing that comes close to this for me is when I'm kneeling and it feels like I cannot possibly get low enough for this person....there I find a moment of comfort. Beyond that, it's more like I'm one big emotional nerve, raw and exposed. This probably has alot to do with my choice of partners. Maybe someday I would like to experience all of this "warm and fuzzy", lovey dovey, protected and safe, stuff that some of the others talk about; just not any time soon. This made me stop and think about what, exactly, Im talking about when I say "Submission feels like this..." because the feelings that I have in my body when Im submitting to physical or emotional/psychological pain are not the same feelings that I have when I "feel submissive" in a moment when I am anticipating submitting to pain, submitting via an act of service, or simply engaged in a particular posture that amplifies the atunement I spoke of earlier. That's an interesting observation to point out. In trying to wrap around what you're saying, I think I can relate to this as well. Feeling submissive in anticipation of what is coming is not nearly as emotional, or even as 'conflicting' as when Im actually "in it", so to speak. It's more of an excited feeling and I dont feel the same level of self-awareness, as when Im actually experiencing whatever it was I was anticipating. I think you've pointed out another way that one can "feel" their submission. I hope I've captured your drift, heather. quote: When I am in the midst of submitting to pain or something not particularly pleasant, there is a disequilibrium that manifests itself any number of ways...among them is that sense of conflict that you and katy spoke of, marie. If you don't mind my asking, what do you think it (the conflict/disequilibrium) stems from? quote: Sometimes the unpleasantries begin without warning. My parasypathetic nervous system does not have an opportunity to prime my body for acceptance. When that happens, it's all about the fight or flight feelings...the hyper-awareness, the quickening pulse, the butterflies in the stomach. Usually just after I become aware of these sensations, I try very hard to be present with the physical sensations associated with whatever is going on. The sense of conflict comes back over me in intermittent waves until Im just too tired to be conflicted and there is nothing left but the sweet release of tears and a wonderful endorphin rush. I'm not clear if this is something that you like or something that you find challenging. But I wonder if eventually we (you, me, any random S type) experience the fight/flight reaction to a lesser degree as trust builds up. I dont mean trust in physical safety (Im going to assume thats a given for any intelligent woman) but I mean trust that your partner isnt going to do emotional harm. I wonder if eventually the choice becomes "fight, flight or just surrender ; surrender to the madness of it all without thinking, without needing to wonder, without needing a reason other than its what he wants. I wonder if it's actually being down on the mat, spent, crying and defenseless that we (you, me, any random S type) get off on, or if its the "fight" that we go through on the way down, that stimulates so much. when I say 'the fight' I mean the conflict itself. Maybe its necessary for some of us, as a part of the bent. I don't know. In my own case, Ive never really been long term (say at least a year) with anyone in a Ds relationship where I can speak to this or say "hey I finally reached a point where the fight/ flight stuff has lifted and Im not so nerve-racked any longer, and hey, I like experiencing my submission this way". For me personally, it's still an unknown. quote: Certainly we choose our partners for a reason, so Im not at all suggesting you or katy or anyone else who isnt into the type of feelings I described earlier try something different...but I would like to just let you know that I believe it is possible to experience the warm fuzzy safeness in one moment and a split second later be flat on your face against a cold tile floor, not knowing how far he is going to go, if it will be "too much" for you, and giving in to the fact that he will go as far as he wants to because it's his right. I have no doubt. I have heard many S types describe this. In other words you can have loving and harsh and enjoy it as your dynamic and be perfectly fulfilled with having it both ways. It's an "animal" that Im not familiar with, but one I can certainly understand. quote: It is also possible to experience the feelings I described earlier while still having a sense of conflict, even fear. I would venture to say, even, that in those moments where I am highly aware of my body and the physical manifestations of submission, there is an ever- so- thin thread of something like what you described that runs through the core of my body...more manifest in thought than feeling, but still barely tangible, that reminds me as I let go that he can do whatever he wants. In that moment, I give myself over to the choice that I made when I committed myself to submitting to him, and that thin thread becomes something around which all the wonderful feelings orbit. Sounds like the toughest part is also the most rewarding for you. (If Im reading you correctly) quote: That is not to say that I feel warm and fuzzy through whatever comes next. Would this include stuff like sipping hot chocolate together while looking at the stars in the evening sky? Cuz that might be kinda corney, unless of course the 'whatever' that came next was having to strip naked in the cold and do the hokey pokey before you can come back in the house... Now THAT would be some kinky shit. quote: Im impressed by the fact that you and others who have posted are practicing mindfulness in their submission. Being present in your body and attending to the physical manifestation of your submission, the unpleasant as well as the pleasant, requires, I think, a certain kind of bravery. Yeah, that or a certain kind of insanity.

catize -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:02:11 PM)
quote: When I am in the midst of submitting to pain or something not particularly pleasant, there is a disequilibrium that manifests itself any number of ways...among them is that sense of conflict that you and katy spoke of, marie. It is reassuring to me to know there are other submissives who feel some conflict and are willing to share that. There are times when I simutaneously say "Yes, Sir" while biting my tongue and thinking....You want me to do whaaaaat? Generally for me, its the fairly simple things that give me the disequilibrium, blindsided by an over-emotional response to what master considers a mundane order.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:02:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dawntreader Very interesting thread...i have enjoyed reading all the different responses to your question, Noah. Me too. quote: Submission for me is extremely spiritual - the completion of yin and yang, not just within myself but the dynamics of the relationship with another. To me, there cannot be one without the other...like this post from Mercnbeth, it is a state of being - not something turned on and off... With this state of being is the mental and physical feeling of being small but i also associate this with loss of "ego" and a focus on service. I'd like some time to explore notions of spirituality in WIITWD in ways perhaps different from what we usually see when someone speaks or writes on the subject. But I suppose that is the grist for a different thread. It has been nice to hear a few different takes from the vantage point of "it doesn't feel like anything; it is more existential than that." I've been thinking about these very posts and it occured to me to wonder about a comparison to certain other things. I'm a parent all the time and identify heavily as such. Still, there are times when I have more ... explicitly, or maybe more specifically parental feelings. Parental pride, for instance, feels different--physically--than other sorts of pride experiences for me. I think that most women would attest to their femininity as a state of being in that same sense mentioned before, but many report that particular things or moments leave them feeling their femininity more acutely. Accordingly, I wonder if the submissives/slaves who have posted here to indicate that they lack experience of "feeling submissive" might revisit the question as a reflection on a phenomenon like inhabiting your femininity all the time and yet "feeling" it more now than then. Now that might make another nice thread. "What does femininity feel like to you?" quote: When in a relationship with a Dominant, my submissiveness does manifest physically with my sexuality and i maintain a constant state of arousal which i am sure i do not need to detail here :-) Oh c'mon. Just between us girls? I'm sure no one's listening.

marieToo -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:03:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah this thread has been illustrating that there are all kinds of ways to "be" submissive. I think it has also shown why talk about "being" submissive can be less fruitful than talk about how to discover one's submissiveness, how to explore it, inhabit it, express it. And furthermore I think it has given evidence that comparing "ways" is both more interesting and more worthwhile than trying to issue judgements about what (and who!) counts as More, and Less, This or That. In other words....us subbies are just test rats in your experimental maze. You come around and throw in a certain stimulus....go away...then come back and see how the rats have reacted....throw in something slightly different the next time...take a couple notes...and leave the rats to sniff around the walls again...then come back to see if they've made progress....etc etc... Must be writing a book or something...

KatyLied -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:15:50 PM)
quote: Im impressed by the fact that you and others who have posted are practicing mindfulness in their submission. Being present in your body and attending to the physical manifestation of your submission, the unpleasant as well as the pleasant, requires, I think, a certain kind of bravery. Heather, that is stated so beautifully. And it gives me pause and makes me think, perhaps we, as sub/slaves are working harder on our relationships than the 'nilla folk, being mindful, remembering to be in the moment. I want to believe that everyone works hard at their relationships, whether they are D/s or 'nilla. But sometimes the struggle is hard work and stomach ache, still I'd rather have that than 'nilla any day. And maybe it's okay sometimes, for us to think we are special. [&:]

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:31:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: behindmirrors Before: It's anticipation, an almost squirming feeling in my bones from the excitement. I am almost suspended in each moment, like a pause in music right before it flows, or a ballet dancer taking a timid yet strong step, articulating each part of it before it happens. During: To me, it's an almost languid peace that I feel in my entire body- like suddenly having tremenous grace fill you in each muscule fiber. It feels alive- in this sense of bright openess- almost that sense of wonder that one feels when discovering things for the first time as a child, with nothing outside of that moment to shape your thoughts. It is all sensation, my mind generally free of much thought, just living each moment. It feels clean and new again. After: I am usually deliciously exhausted, my body amplified a thousand times over in it's sensitivity...everything feels awakened and content, needing nothing and pleased to be alive and happy. Now you've taken my question very closely on its own terms and what a nice response resulted. Thank you. The variety of ways of answering this question seem almost as various as the contents of the answers. I don't have much experience with people who are pretty strictly sensation-players. I expect that some of them are able to and indeed do take an especially close account of the feelings going on--though if a given individual is seldom are able to recount a moment of it but finds meaning or pleasure in it as it happens, that's fine too. I'm thinking, though, of the sensation-player having a sort of privileged position in one quite restricted sense. That is, the interactive flow of emotions might be limited to a somewhat narrower pallete--even as one's own emotions run quite wild. True Love, for instance, might not be expected to intrude there too often. If this hypothesis is the case for even some of these people, does this open up more bandwidth, so to speak, for the more narrow exploration (more deep?) of the physical and/or the psychological per se? I sure wouldn't conclude this quickly, especially in light of some of the comments here about expansion of perception and sensation attributable to the feeling of submission. There seem to be all sorts of synergies rustling about the underbrush. With all the ways these factors are being seen to interact I'd be wary of almost any simplistic equation-making about most of this. I'm just riffing here, behindmirrors. Don't think I'm making some assumptions about you and your way of going. This was just where those ideas came forward for me. quote: I hope this helps...sheesh, I could have been more direct in just leaving some poetry as an answer. That would be lovely. Or again it might suck, I suppose. In general, that is. Present company excluded. Milky skin is positively correlated with poetic ability, right? Just like several other shades.

Noah -> RE: How submissiveness feels (12/7/2006 4:39:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo In other words....us subbies are just test rats in your experimental maze. You come around and throw in a certain stimulus....go away...then come back and see how the rats have reacted....throw in something slightly different the next time...take a couple notes...and leave the rats to sniff around the walls again...then come back to see if they've made progress....etc etc... Must be writing a book or something... ... she said, speaking of boiling things down to the thinnest possible soup. Ever hear that saying: 'We see the world not as it is, but as we are"? Now if you press that little bar with your snout you just might get another thumbtack-chip cookie.

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