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A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:18:47 AM

popeye1250

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Last night I was out in the neighborhood for my nightly walk when I ran into the manager of my bank.
I don't know what it is about me but for some reason people just want to tell me their problems like I'm their "father confessor" or something.
Well she tells me that she promoted this lady that I know at the bank to management.
I tell her that that's a good thing and that the lady deserves it and that I always liked her and found her very helpfull and knowledgable whenever I conducted my business there.
This promotion will put this lady on the path to "upper management" and she'll get her own branch of one of the banks local offices.
"Great, good for her" I say.
So then, she tells me about another lady at the bank who I also know who felt that she should have gotten the promotion because she had a degree and the other lady who got the promotion didn't.
They both had about the same amount of time there, about 4 years I think she said.
Turns out that when this lady found out that the other lady without a degree got promoted into management she stormed into the managers office and made a big fuss about it and was yelling at the manager for promoting the other lady without a degree over her!
(Evidently they don't teach "manners" in colleges and universities these days.)
So, after hearing all this I told the manager lady; "Gee, it looks like you chose the right person for the job!"
Evidently this bank promotes from within. (It's a large regional bank)
My question is why should someone who has a degree feel that they are more "entitled" to a promotion than someone who doesn't?
The person here with the degree acted totally childish and also very *rudely* during this whole situation.
The manager felt, and rightly so that the other woman was better qualified to be kicked up into management even though she didn't have a degree.
Your thoughts please.

Post #: 1

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:35:31 AM

nighthawk3569

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(Evidently they don't teach "manners" in colleges and universities these days.)

"Manners" have to be taught 'way before college level. I agree with you on the manager making the right decision! Rudeness often costs a place of business customers...without the business being aware of it.

'hawk

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 2

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:49:00 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

(Evidently they don't teach "manners" in colleges and universities these days.)

"Manners" have to be taught 'way before college level. I agree with you on the manager making the right decision! Rudeness often costs a place of business customers...without the business being aware of it.

'hawk

Hawk, well I thought that was very rude of the woman to react the way she did.
For all she knew she could be up for the next promotion.
Evidently she's just not management material degree or no degree.
She should have been happy for the lady who did receive the promotion.

(in reply to nighthawk3569)

Post #: 3

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:54:50 AM

LadyEllen

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As someone who missed out on a degree - financial reasons in the main, (couldnt afford it), it annoys me no end to see virtually any job ad in the UK stating that the person should have a degree.

OK, its valuable - no denying that, but to be frank the degree in life I now have is far more valuable, professionally and personally. Still had to start my own business to access the salary that a degree holder can command.

Experience, manner, know how and entreprenerial ambition is whats important, and only one of those can be taught in university.

E

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 10:54:53 AM

MsSonnetMarwood

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Actually, I'd question the bank manager's judgement on airing the dirty laundry of what goes on behind the scenes to a customer.

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Deja Moo: The feeling you've heard this bull somewhere before.

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 11:54:00 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

As someone who missed out on a degree - financial reasons in the main, (couldnt afford it), it annoys me no end to see virtually any job ad in the UK stating that the person should have a degree.

OK, its valuable - no denying that, but to be frank the degree in life I now have is far more valuable, professionally and personally. Still had to start my own business to access the salary that a degree holder can command.

Experience, manner, know how and entreprenerial ambition is whats important, and only one of those can be taught in university.

E

Lady Ellen, you didn't miss out on much.
I have a degree in Bus. Admin.
Most of the things they covered I'd already learned in the military.
Unless you apply for those jobs how do you know if they'll hire you or not?
Most jobs simply don't "require" a degree unless you specialize like in Nursing, Medicine, Engineering, Accounting etc and certainly not in business.
Business is all about selling.
After I graduated college I never used anything I learned there in the business world.
Look at all the "paper pushing" jobs in govt that "require" a degree; 20 years ago those were secretarial jobs.
So, go and apply for those jobs!
What's the worst they can say?

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 6

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 11:57:28 AM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

Actually, I'd question the bank manager's judgement on airing the dirty laundry of what goes on behind the scenes to a customer.

MsSonnet, I'm also a neighbor as well as a customer.
Like I said, I don't know why people look at me as a "father confessor". It's been like that all my life for some reason.

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

Post #: 7

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 12:10:05 PM

missturbation

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

Actually, I'd question the bank manager's judgement on airing the dirty laundry of what goes on behind the scenes to a customer.

MsSonnet, I'm also a neighbor as well as a customer.
Like I said, I don't know why people look at me as a "father confessor". It's been like that all my life for some reason.

I have to agree with mssonnetmarwood here.
Whether you are a neighbour or not that sort of thing should be kept within the work place.

As for the father confessor i sure as hell have no idea why anyone would choose you either !!

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 12:29:01 PM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

OK, its valuable - no denying that, but to be frank the degree in life I now have is far more valuable, professionally and personally. Still had to start my own business to access the salary that a degree holder can command.

Degrees are seriously over rated. The reason so many jobs demand a degree is because so many people have one. All a degree proves is that you made it through university without falling down. You could probably scrap all social science and humanity degrees and not have an adverse affect on society. People could successfully pursue the humanities, history, political, social and artistic interests etc without access to university as long as they have access to books. One of the few areas where university is probably a must are the hard sciences. I'm assuming that one really needs to have access to the latest thought, the brightest minds and equipement in a specific field. But where science is concerned this is an assumption because I'm talking from ignorance.

I've got two degrees and a masters and speaking as an artist, my time would have been better spent as an old fashioned aprentice to a master rather than learning a load of psuedo intellectual crap about great artists which tell me nothing about how they actually physically applied their art. I was in the National Gallery once looking at a Rembrandt and realised I knew nothing about how he applied his paint. The only way to find out was to buy a book written by an East End paint forger who had physically studied and practiced how Rembrandt had applied his paint. The fucking lecturers in university knew fuck all on that score.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/2/2006 12:35:37 PM >

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 12:38:57 PM

agirl

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I can understand why firms ask for certain levels of qualification when seeking applicants from outside, but internally, less so.

The best person for the job is the best person for the job, degree or not.

Internally, where staff are known and their performance is noted, your degree isn't going to give quite the *clout* that it might do if you were being considered alongside others, equally qualified, externally.

I can see why she might have felt disgruntled, though......it's probably a bit of an eye-opener to find that your shining academic achievements aren't a guaranteed path to success......lol

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 12/2/2006 12:39:21 PM >

(in reply to LadyEllen)

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 12:42:17 PM

DiamondOrchid

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I don't see the need for a degree in many jobs, unless it is directly related (ie medicine, nursing, astrophysics...

). What I think (and this is just my personal thought), is that a person with a degree has proven that they can stick to deadlines and get the job done. I don't know about the arts, but in the sciences... you can't just bs your way through (unless you're a genius, but that is something altogether different) - you have to work and keep certain deadlines. You learn (a type of) disipline. I think that is what some employers are looking for.

As for manners... they are taught by the persons parents (or whomever is acting in that capacity). Universities/colleges teach intellectual stuff.

D.

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 1:04:58 PM

subfever

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IMO, a degree may open up doors that may not have otherwise opened.

After you're hired, it's performance that counts; and a degree should only be used for tie-breakers.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 12

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 1:07:52 PM

KatyLied

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I think you could probably have that chick's job if you wanted it.
Her company would be most displeased that she has disclosed its hiring practices.
Or maybe her company isn't big on confidentialty. She certainly isn't.

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 1:25:56 PM

popeye1250

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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

IMO, a degree may open up doors that may not have otherwise opened.

After you're hired, it's performance that counts; and a degree should only be used for tie-breakers.

One job that I got the manager later told me wasn't because I had a degree but because I had spent so many years in the military.
I think Meatcleaver hit the nail on the head about there being so many people out there with degrees.
If I owned a company I would promote from within and I'd choose the best person for the job, naturally.
Sub, I'd use military veteran's status for a tie-breaker.
Like some states use "Veteran's Preference."

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 12/2/2006 1:33:09 PM >

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 14

RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 1:40:44 PM

subfever

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

...If I owned a company I would promote from within and I'd choose the best person for the job, naturally.
Sub, I'd use military veteran's status for a tie-breaker...

No argument there.

But I thought we were discussing degrees...

(in reply to popeye1250)

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 2:00:57 PM

caitlyn

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College is vital. There just aren't enough cab driver jobs to employ all those professors.

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 2:11:30 PM

popeye1250

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Caitlyn, have you been into a Starbucks coffee shop lately?
They hire college grads. I think everyone in those places has degrees now!
It's like the 2000's version of "would you like fries with that."

(in reply to caitlyn)

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 2:11:48 PM

KenDckey

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I applied for a job with the State of California once. Job required a Masters. I have a HS education but 20 years military experience and they let me test. Testing was in San Francisco, Las Angles, and Fresno. There were 75 people who tested with me. I came out 7th on the state list. Next time the job came open, I wasn't allowed to test. The state said that this time they weren't substituting experience for education. YOu never know what is going through their minds. But I do agree the best person for the job is the one that should get it, regardless of education.

(in reply to caitlyn)

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 2:53:19 PM

Kalira

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MsSonnetMarwood

Actually, I'd question the bank manager's judgement on airing the dirty laundry of what goes on behind the scenes to a customer.

Bingo

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We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to MsSonnetMarwood)

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RE: A sense of "Entitlement?" - 12/2/2006 3:13:26 PM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
My question is why should someone who has a degree feel that they are more "entitled" to a promotion than someone who doesn't?

It depends on the circumstances. And surely you aren't suggesting that all of us peeps with college degrees believe we're instantly entitled to everything that comes along?

Take two people, same age, same background. One took training in college and acquired a degree, one did not. Both enter Job A on the same day. Job A is directly related to the degree that Person A has.

We can either say that a professional degree is meaningless, or it has meaning.

The obvious answer is that both can be true- in some ways its meaningless, in others its incredibly meaningful.

You have to apply exactly what it means along with EVERYTHING else when making such assessment as promotions.

Given the circumstance I described, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, a relevant degree SHOULD add to the value of an employee.

The problem with this person is that she assumed that all other things were equal, and went completely the wrong way about getting what she wanted.

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(in reply to popeye1250)

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