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ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline
The point I was making is that ----- in this one thread and the few postings we have exchanged where there was no previous mention of "Christians", you decried them about ten times in seperate vehemently made statements.

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This is akin to saying - "I hate purple people - although some of them are good friends..."

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So under those auspices -  Then "Mein Kampf" would be acceptable as a basis for people to go on about their 'beliefs' in your eyes?

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Personally there are a list of philosophys (based in books) I find either offensive or insulting, poorly defined or amply defined as meaning something I am opposed to...

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And, thank you for allowing the opinion... it was the only one I had at the time and therefore a real find  and one I am considering keeping if I can get the upholstery of it to match the veneer I have in the den[;)]

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ORIGINAL: xBullx

Greetings everyone,

I want to quickly interject a short, well short for me, post about the cyber tussle my initial post created. First, I was talking to someone not so long ago about me views and this person voiced theirs. Now when it came down to it on that particular topic we were actually quite similar in our views. We discussed the point that it’s do to the assumptions and baseless prejudices that different lifestyles have that instill these disputes. So I thought. I then thought that if I participated in forums outside of the Gorean forum and didn’t try to ram my point of view down someone’s throat perhaps it would create a bit of understanding. And I might make a few friends along the way.

I regret that I am not schooled to a large degree in self expression through the written word. Perhaps I can correct that deficiency with a comp lit and English 101 course. I try my best, but quite obviously I have fallen short here, and what has ensued is a plain ass mess, I would ask the Goreans that are trying to defend our position to refrain from an attempt that is now faced with stubborn bias, much the same way we are now looking at their point. I blame myself for this very argument. I should have in having difficulty at first conveying my message either one just deferred to a more competent speak, ask a skilled composer of written words to help or just realized as I was on someone else’s turf simply withdrawn. I failed on several counts.

I do not wish for my failure to persist and take what was a valid question and create a complete mess of this or any thread. What I had hoped to do, is in effect creating the complete opposite. I was not up to the task that I had sought out to accomplish and in effect made it worse. I suppose I’m not the first to have tried this and that would most likely explain why we have separate boards. I will still read and maybe even post in any or all threads but I have learned a valuable enough lesson about my limits in this exercise.

I would hope that we could all turn back to the valid question that the OP did ask and I assume that I and some others have answered well enough some of our own worthiness to at least some of life’s questions.

Again I have no actual power over anyone here, no more than they do I, but I would ask that we stop the bashing or posturing against one another and spend our energies in a more constructive manner. I would hate for the Mods to have to close a thread that has worthy merit.

I wish you all well and a most happy holiday season,

Bull

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ORIGINAL: Najakcharmer

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ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline
The point I was making is that ----- in this one thread and the few postings we have exchanged where there was no previous mention of "Christians", you decried them about ten times in seperate vehemently made statements.

They're people who base their lifestyles and beliefs on a book, just like Goreans do.  And like Goreans, there are bad apples in this barrel as well as good ones.  The bad ones who behave themselves in ways that are unethical or antisocial are not considered "real" by the good ones who strive to conduct themselves in an honorable manner.  So I think it's an excellent comparison.

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This is akin to saying - "I hate purple people - although some of them are good friends..."

No, it's more akin to saying "there is no group of people of any color that does not include some really bad/dangerous/unsavory individuals."

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So under those auspices -  Then "Mein Kampf" would be acceptable as a basis for people to go on about their 'beliefs' in your eyes?

I don't care what other people believe as long as it does not lead them to infringe upon the rights of others.  If someone wants to believe that they are superior because they are white, I will think that they are stupid, but I can't say that I care much unless they extrapolate those beliefs into behaviors that cause problems for other people.

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ORIGINAL: KatyLied


Yeah, they can judge and scorn us because our kink doesn't come from a novel, that's okay.

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ORIGINAL: aslaveflower
One last remark about John Norman....Its not the storyline within the novels that are so life changing....it is the "meat" in the words he writes. Norman is both an Anthroplogist and a Sociologist....which would explain why he knows so much about the natural instincts and make-up of both male and female.

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You know, not every person with an "ist" at the end of their title is right.

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Not every man is dominant. Not every woman is submissive. We know this looking at the world around us. I respect Gor (though not every Gorean) but I agree with Naja about the science of Gor.

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ORIGINAL: aslaveflower

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You know, not every person with an "ist" at the end of their title is right.

Yes, of course ...that goes without saying. Norman is an author and the novels are sci-fi, but he does write within the fictional passages of each novel, various bits of information on what we as humans, have learned and studied, about male/female behaviors and instincts throughout the centuries.

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Not every man is dominant. Not every woman is submissive. We know this looking at the world around us. I respect Gor (though not every Gorean) but I agree with Naja about the science of Gor.

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That is also true. Of course we see submissive men and dominant women. Believe it or not, i consider myself to be  dominant in many ways. Does that make me a Domme? No. For me, there is no greater pleasure than serving my Master with all that i have to give. Master could very be described as the "strong silent type"...lol. Does this make Him submissive? No. Of course not.

So, it seems that we can have certain traits that seem contrary to our instinctive natures. For example: a woman can be dominant in her career aspirations; perhaps by having her own company. While  a male can be very submissive in his social interactions, always being that "easy going" guy that everyone loves. Does that wipe out the millions of years of instinct and breeding within each gender, or change the testosterone and estrogen levels, muscle mass..ect..in either? No, it does not.

Even if subby john desires to serve his Mistress or Master ....and Domme Cheryl desires to master and own male and female subs/slaves, it is a "desired" choice. Sub john is still a man, and Mistress Cheryl is still female.

i respect others' freedom to choose whatever they desire. i do also have an opinion, which i hear is still allowed ..even on bulletin boards..*s*

But of course. However, you must realize that just having an opinion doesn't make you right. Therefore, do not post things you don't want to have people disagreeing with. Not to say I'm always right. I'm not.

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So, here it is *s* whether anyone cares or not...it is my opinion that men were meant to dominate women, and women were meant to submit to men. Nature and science reveals this to us....the compositon of our bodies tell us this....as do the intense feelings and sexuality us females feel for strong, dominating males and vice-versa. But then, i know a lot of you out there already know this...lol...

Merry Christmas Everyone [sm=smile.gif] 

Submiting to a woman is not dominating her.When a man submits to a woman, he does not dominate her. Nature and science tells us nothing about dominantion but this is probably like telling a fundemental Christian that you might not want to take the Bible literally.

Men and women are equal by nature and science. We can do many of the same things. What we lack in physical strength, nature makes up for in emotional and intellectual ways. It has been proven that woman are far better multi-taskers then men. Nature designs us equal. We submit because we are submissive, regardless of our genders.

I want to thank you though, for showing me that a Gorean can be respectful of female dominants and male submissives. My experience with those who follow your lifestyle hasn't been pleasent. Thank you and my compliements on being a wonderful example.

Edited for better clarity

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Submiting to a woman is not dominating her.When a man submits to a woman, he does not dominate her. Nature and science tells us nothing about dominantion

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I want to thank you though, for showing me that a Gorean can be respectful of female dominants and male submissives. My experience with those who follow your lifestyle hasn't been pleasent. Thank you and my compliements on being a wonderful example.

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ORIGINAL: aslaveflower

More women taking leadership roles, being a mom and a career woman, and more men feeling that in order to attract and keep their females, they must please them at all costs, perhaps by submitting more and more?

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One very important fact here though about nature and science. They do very much reflect domination and submission. Just look at the way animals mate, how the stronger male overpowers the female...or how the Alpha wolf male dominates his pack, having an alpha female who is most certainly sub to him.

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ORIGINAL: aslaveflower

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Submiting to a woman is not dominating her.When a man submits to a woman, he does not dominate her. Nature and science tells us nothing about dominantion

Very true. When a man submits to a woman, She is dominating "him" ...why? Because She has chosen this, as he has.

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ORIGINAL: Bosn

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ORIGINAL: aslaveflower

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Submiting to a woman is not dominating her.When a man submits to a woman, he does not dominate her. Nature and science tells us nothing about dominantion

Very true. When a man submits to a woman, She is dominating "him" ...why? Because She has chosen this, as he has.

I disagree. Just because a male has chosen to live in an unnatural state does not mean that a fermale does. I think that with the female, it is more a "survival" thing. When the Protector/Provider will not do his job, someone has to step up and take over the abdicated responsabilities.
Todays' female is taught that this makes them equal to males. Why would they want to be? Those males who choose to submit themselves to the very beings they were supposed to watch over should be ashamed.
But that's my opinion.
I wish you well.
Bosn