RE: Morals without external influence (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 5:01:06 PM)

quote:

Not sure what you meant by "Beating your replicants shouldn't be the norm, but when hitting a parent can be rationalized appropriate what action would be considered inappropriate?" perhaps you can elaborate?


Avoiding the "wrath of moderation" by excluding the word for birth organism. Everyone uses a euphemism, I use 'replicant'.

Risking the 'wrath'. "You shouldn't beat your kid, but when hitting a parent can be rationalized appropriate what action would be considered inappropriate?"

There were those on this thread who exempted the actions of this 'child' and assumed some unknown occurrence or experience justified his physical act. There was a lot of assuming going on, causing me to wonder what would the kid have to do to be at fault? Ignoring the reaction to his action for the moment. What action would he have to do to be wrong regardless? There was a time when hitting any woman would earn the wrath of every man regardless of the relationship to the woman. Granted that was before the colloquial terms 'bitches' and 'hos' where deemed acceptable and appropriate in music and conversation for our mothers, wifes and daughters.

Sorry for the confusion.

btw - Good to see you too!



spankmepink11 -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 5:49:06 PM)

Please bare with me, this could take a moment...or 12.

As a child, i was under parented and over abused (physically).  As an adult, i was married and bore three sons.  As a Parent, when my ex spouses alcohol abuse  led him down the path of borderline physical abuse with our sons, i left him.  He never attempted to physically abuse me.  And i always taught them that violence was never the answer.

I was a stay home, make the cupcakes for the school party, go on  the field trips, help with homework, encouraging and positive re-enforcing , attend every practice,  game...etc etc mother.  There were times when i had to attend 3 different football games in one night and at least 1-2 of them had practice for something every day but Sunday.

As a working single parent,  with absolutely no support system, i found that my 40+ hour work week was detrimental to my children's well being ( IE being "latch key kids") I quit the job and started my own business, tailoring my  work hours to coincide with the hours that they spent in school.  I did not bring men into my home, nor into my children's lives.

Every one of my sons ,while very protective of me with others,  put me through the ringer as teenagers. In spite of our very close, tight bond.   ( my middle son often laments that he feels different from other  young men in that he doesn't have "secrets" from his mother.

At the age of 18, my oldest son was still living with me and had just blown a job that i had recommended him for  with one of my clients.  I was traveling  to a friends wedding out of town, and was to be gone overnight.  He was left in charge of his younger brothers.  ( they have a kind of hero worship for him, which he enjoyed so he was  actually very well behaved any time that i left them with him)  The younger boys were 15 and 12 respectively.

Half way to my destination, i had car trouble, and had to turn around and come home, on back roads doing no more than about 45 miles per hour.  It was a pretty stressfull event and the two hours i had traveled turned into a 4 hour return trip, late at night.  I was in contact with my son, so he knew i was trying to get home.
Upon reaching home, i found that a friend of his had come over, they had drunk some beer, and apparently smoked some pot...and all the evidence of such was laying around my house.  I got him out of bed  and was pretty much reaming him a new one verbally, when he made some comment that completely struck me wrong, so i slapped his face. Upon reflex, he slapped me right back.  To me, that was devastating.  Yes , he apologized, and when he told my middle son what he had done, he cried, and punched the wall in remorse, badly bruising his hand ( he was also a 6'4  200 lb'er)

Was i a perfect parent?....of course not,  and they were all far from perfect children.
I know i should not take offense to Julia's comments, but sometimes logic just does not compute. All is not always exactly what it appears, and the OP was not referring to anything but his own self judgment on action that he considered inappropriate in retrospect. So Julia's opinion of the mother was really quite irrelevant.

Julia, i'm sure you did not intend to offend anyone, but i just couldn't help but be offended by your post. And feel that the incident was in no way my fault, or a result of poor parenting on my part.

No harm...no foul...just another point of view.
peace...



juliaoceania -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 6:02:34 PM)

I do not think it is about right or wrong if my unmentionable strikes me as of an age I am responsible for him, I think it is a matter of solving it and fixing it. I love my child, I do not want retribution, I want him to be whole and well and happy. It is not about right or wrong, it is about doing what is best for the family unit.... but you know that is just my opinion as someone with an unmentionable that has never threatened me with cops, or to hit me or any other sort of violent act.



Termyn8or -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/6/2006 10:02:34 PM)

Hold on, I guess I left a few things out. First of all I am not a stranger. His Mother and stepfather have been friends for years. About a year or two ago he got really threatening to her and I volunteered to come and have a little talk with him.

Now I am not a complete expert, but my course of action at the time was really to talk to him. "You scared your Mother" etc. It was a longer talk than he was ready for, and there was no physical contact until later, when I attempted to teach him how to slap-box. It wemt fairly well and his grades and attitude improved considerably. At that time I issued the threat "You know if you ever do hit youir Mother you are going to have a very unpleasant day".

Well I was carrying out the promise. Again he improved. I got rough, but understand this time I did not strike him. I got in his face like a Marine seargent. This was also after he gave very disconnected and derogatory reponses.

He thought he was right in hitting her. That simple. Did I act out of anger ? I don't think so. My actions that day were totally condoned by about 8 people. The friends and relatives who were there at the time. Amd when the kid showed up with the cops, they took him away, not me. Fucker's lucky he wasn't 18, that would be domestic violence. He went to the detention home for 30 days for this.

Now you have to understand, after the first little talk we had, he seemed to agree and did do better. During that time I treated him with respect. As long as he calmed down I treated him well, I am not a stranger.

I have let it be known that he went down a few notches in my estimation of him. What you percieve as violence on my part wasn't really. But realize this, as someone said in this thread, if his Mother raised him right he would never hit her. She has a  bit of an anger problem too, so my aim was to bring in another point of view. A Man does not hit a Woman except under very rare circumstances. At our first little talk I explained to him that he must be a Man and walk away. I learned to walk away from arguments with my Parents, although not at his age.

I tried to confer that the stupid shit you do now will haunt you in the future. I told him things I did that I almost can't live with, and they can't be undone.

Last time I was nasty to him, but not normally. Also I have not called him the names I mentioned here to his face. There is nothing good to come out of that.

I am now out of the equation. He has turned 18 and is moving out, and not by choice.

For those of you who think I belong in jail, cool. But not for this. Getting tough and getting a point across to someone who has adopted an ignorant attitude is a far cry from physically abusing them. I know that instilling fear can be considered violence, but it is not.

Violence is violence, and what he did is, and what I did was not.

Thought I'd try to clear that up.

T



LTRsubNW -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 4:14:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

Well said.


No shit...Wish I'd written (a good portion of) that.

One quick note...alcohol doesn't help you sleep no matter what you've (termyn8or) come to believe.  It only knocks you out.

And then, in the morning, you're a hung over, grumpy, pissed off guy that didn't sleep...which means tonight, you need to sleep all the more (which often is made worse by thinking you need to drink to get some sleep).

Trust me on this Termyn8or....if you don't sleep well, stay off the bottle, it really doesn't help you sleep (no matter what you think), it's expensive, it fucks up your liver and you don't gain much if any REM.

Go see your doctor, ask for some "estazolam".  1/2 a mg will knock you out, you'll sleep like a baby (real sleep) and you'll wake up a new man.  (Honest).



LTRsubNW -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 4:22:08 AM)

Interesting that all the comments about how this should have been handled by counselors, given the kid a chance to adjust, learn better behavioral principlals, yada yada yada, all came from women.

Boys are different.  They see things like the above as weakness.  An opening.  This kid wasn't 11.  He was 17.  The OP made the correct decision.  The OP didn't mutilate this kid.  He had no broken bones when it was all done.  But he did have a sudden and new awareness about the world.

Guaranteed, the kid thought twice from that point forward about ever hitting his Mom (or any other woman) again.

The OP made the correct decision and took the correct action.



missturbation -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 5:02:07 AM)

I had a little talk with a juvenile delinquent, smacked him around a bit because he hit his Mother in the breast.

Violence is violence, and what he did is, and what I did was not.

I'm confused - how is what he did violence and what you did was not?



missturbation -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 5:11:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Interesting that all the comments about how this should have been handled by counselors, given the kid a chance to adjust, learn better behavioral principlals, yada yada yada, all came from women.

Hmm, another downer on women. Interesting you often pull women down in your posts. You seem to infer that women think only with emotion and no clarity.

Boys are different.  They see things like the above as weakness.  An opening.  This kid wasn't 11.  He was 17.  The OP made the correct decision.  The OP didn't mutilate this kid.  He had no broken bones when it was all done.  But he did have a sudden and new awareness about the world.

Fact? Does he have a new sense of awareness or will he just go on to repeat the pattern of violence that seems to be becoming part of his life?
I see no mention of injuries the kid got as a result of being smacked around. Besides broken bones heal, physchological damage sometimes doesnt.

Guaranteed, the kid thought twice from that point forward about ever hitting his Mom (or any other woman) again.

Fact? I know kids who just got worse after situations like this so i dont think you can guarantee anything.

The OP made the correct decision and took the correct action.


Is that a fact?
In my opinion none of us can say what is or was the right thing to do. We don't know the people involved. My initial gut reaction was disgust he had hit this child but thinking about it after maybe he did the right thing for the situation.
 
You state many things as fact here and i seriously doubt you can back them up.



LadyJulieAnn -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 5:21:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Hold on, I guess I left a few things out. First of all I am not a stranger. His Mother and stepfather have been friends for years. About a year or two ago he got really threatening to her and I volunteered to come and have a little talk with him.

Now I am not a complete expert, but my course of action at the time was really to talk to him. "You scared your Mother" etc. It was a longer talk than he was ready for, and there was no physical contact until later, when I attempted to teach him how to slap-box. It wemt fairly well and his grades and attitude improved considerably. At that time I issued the threat "You know if you ever do hit youir Mother you are going to have a very unpleasant day".

Well I was carrying out the promise. Again he improved. I got rough, but understand this time I did not strike him. I got in his face like a Marine seargent. This was also after he gave very disconnected and derogatory reponses.

He thought he was right in hitting her. That simple. Did I act out of anger ? I don't think so. My actions that day were totally condoned by about 8 people. The friends and relatives who were there at the time. Amd when the kid showed up with the cops, they took him away, not me. Fucker's lucky he wasn't 18, that would be domestic violence. He went to the detention home for 30 days for this.

Now you have to understand, after the first little talk we had, he seemed to agree and did do better. During that time I treated him with respect. As long as he calmed down I treated him well, I am not a stranger.

I have let it be known that he went down a few notches in my estimation of him. What you percieve as violence on my part wasn't really. But realize this, as someone said in this thread, if his Mother raised him right he would never hit her. She has a  bit of an anger problem too, so my aim was to bring in another point of view. A Man does not hit a Woman except under very rare circumstances. At our first little talk I explained to him that he must be a Man and walk away. I learned to walk away from arguments with my Parents, although not at his age.

I tried to confer that the stupid shit you do now will haunt you in the future. I told him things I did that I almost can't live with, and they can't be undone.

Last time I was nasty to him, but not normally. Also I have not called him the names I mentioned here to his face. There is nothing good to come out of that.

I am now out of the equation. He has turned 18 and is moving out, and not by choice.

For those of you who think I belong in jail, cool. But not for this. Getting tough and getting a point across to someone who has adopted an ignorant attitude is a far cry from physically abusing them. I know that instilling fear can be considered violence, but it is not.

Violence is violence, and what he did is, and what I did was not.

Thought I'd try to clear that up.

T


Ahh, so since you were the adult and the "better" person, "smacking him around" was somehow less violent than what he did to his mother?  I don't agree.  By you using phycial force the teen has had it reinforced that getting physical is the way to get someone to do what they want, in my opinion.



justheather -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 5:42:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Also I have not called him the names I mentioned here to his face. There is nothing good to come out of that.



It seems to me that if a person believes another person to be a "lazy, shiftless" "fucker" "dead ass" the message will come across loud and clear without the actual words ever having to be spoken.




caitlyn -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 6:35:53 AM)

I'm in the hardass camp. There are people out there that only understand force. I wish it weren't like that, but it just is.



SusanofO -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 6:39:22 AM)

Re: Women's comments on this thread being more "compoassionate". I am truly "in the middle" on this one, and as far as this question goes (if there is one). I thing LTRNW may be right that "boys are different" in some ways. But I'd be loathe to kick someone out on the street for hitting someone. It would be difficult to do for me. But with me it really is "what works" that counts, and if it would work better than "talking more", I'd probably give it a try. I wasn't there, so I am not sure what I'd do, really. It's a tough question.

But, I was raised by a mother who would have kicked his lil' butt right out the door. My mother (interestingly enough) was not ever the one, at my house-of-origin anyway, with the "maternal streak" . My dad was - he was a social worker and quite a bleeding heart a lot of the time as far as this kind of thing goes (he worked at Boysotwn his entire career).

Yet at the same time, my dad was quite a tough guy, and definitely "Domly" as far as personality - without the bdsm part. Or, if it was there, I never heard about it). He owned a string of apartment complexes, and when tenants fell behind on rent, he'd never kick them out. But -my mother always wanted their butts out on the street pronto (even if it was freezing outside, they'd lost their job, etc.).

- Susan



LTRsubNW -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:12:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Interesting that all the comments about how this should have been handled by counselors, given the kid a chance to adjust, learn better behavioral principlals, yada yada yada, all came from women.

Hmm, another downer on women. Interesting you often pull women down in your posts. You seem to infer that women think only with emotion and no clarity.

Boys are different.  They see things like the above as weakness.  An opening.  This kid wasn't 11.  He was 17.  The OP made the correct decision.  The OP didn't mutilate this kid.  He had no broken bones when it was all done.  But he did have a sudden and new awareness about the world.

Fact? Does he have a new sense of awareness or will he just go on to repeat the pattern of violence that seems to be becoming part of his life?
I see no mention of injuries the kid got as a result of being smacked around. Besides broken bones heal, physchological damage sometimes doesnt.

Guaranteed, the kid thought twice from that point forward about ever hitting his Mom (or any other woman) again.

Fact? I know kids who just got worse after situations like this so i dont think you can guarantee anything.

The OP made the correct decision and took the correct action.


Is that a fact?
In my opinion none of us can say what is or was the right thing to do. We don't know the people involved. My initial gut reaction was disgust he had hit this child but thinking about it after maybe he did the right thing for the situation.
 
You state many things as fact here and i seriously doubt you can back them up.


I don't have to.

The fact is, I'm a male, I lived with males, I associated with males and I understand inherently how males don't respond (typically) to confrontation the same way females do.  Ain't nothing wrong with being different, but assuming we're all the same is a huge mistake when dealing with boys.  And no, not all males need a sound physical thumping to get things straight in their head.

This one clearly did.

As another poster said, they'd seen several boys grow up in spectacular surroundings with spectacular parents, yet they still turned out bad.  Others raised in horrid surroundings turned out spectacular.  I've seen them as well.

Sometimes kids are just rotten (male or female).  It isn't always the parents, although anyone would rationally and rightly assume that one's surroundings and parental influence is/are a major part of who they become, it is equally true that occasionally, words just don't cut it for some.

From my read on the OP's comments, this kid was one of them.

(So was I, and after much fanfare and tremendous effort and counseling by both of my parents among others, although I never hit a woman, some very well placed discipline by a school in the Midwest was highly effective for me to see the light.  Possibly I was the only boy in all of history that this type of scenario was necessary for...but I'd submit that not only was I not the only one in that school, and for identical reasons...but that it worked as effectively for the other students in my school as well).

No one (I'm certain) is suggesting that all boys should be physically taken down a few pegs to get them to understand the appropriate societal more's...just that some need something with a smidge more impact than a polite discussion will (or has) provide(d).

(And that's a fact).



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:29:27 AM)

Sounds like a very typical case of dysfunction breeding dysfunction.

Everyone remains responsible and accountable for their own actions of course, but everyone has also acted fairly ridiculous.



LotusSong -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:29:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


Does a juvenile deserve respect? Of course, but only in terms of the respect the juvenile extends to those providing their food/clothing/shelter/educational access. Striking the source of those provided services and goods voids that requirement, and should result in pragmatic response. In this case, the mother should have called the police. As bad as the actions of the OP were, the cause of them was disrespect shown by the 17 year old. Hed hit his mother. We now rationalize that he has a good and defensible reason for hitting his mother. Would a knife or gun used on her have the same justification? We focus on "no respect for the kid"?

Wholly shit!


It's better the OP took the kid on.  Seems like nobody else had. 
 
A juvenile that wants respect had better give it.  Simply existing is not a criteria for respect. They have no boundaries anymore.
 
The " strap, the slap and the boot" needs to make a comeback. 
 
(but before hand we have to make sure their little psyches are intact, they don't have low bloodsugar, ADD or bad toilet training.  The rest of the world isn't going to cater to the little darling. It's best he learns right out of the chute )



MstrssPassion -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:44:28 AM)

What if the story was about a son who was physically abusive toward his father & a woman intervened?

I've been in that position. I had no choice but get physically involved. The father had problems with his health (respiratory related) & the son was a healthy boy of substantial stature. The boy, nearly 18 at the time & his father were in a heated argument & the boy lashed out. Granted, they had HUGE ISSUES that dated to way back before I knew them & I had told them both that they really needed to find better ways to resolve conflicts without screaming & yelling at each other.

But here it was... a physical attack going on right in front of me & something had to be done immediately. When I saw the argument come to blows, the father went into respiratory attack & the boy stayed on top of him. In his rage he didn't notice his father struggling for breath, that is why I had to jump in. I separated the two.

I never had any problems with this kid & he had respect for me. In his rage he lashed out at me & I told him he needed to cool it because I was not going to stand for this abusive behavior. He continued to puff up his chest, refused to unclench his fists, he shouted that he was a man--that I couldn't tell him what to do & continued to shove up against me. I finally told him that if he wanted to be treated like a man then I would treat him like a man & I took his legs out from under him with my foot & gave him a shove to the chest which unbalanced him sending him falling to the ground. I leaned over him & told him that "a man keeps a clear head & carefully thinks about what his actions are & what the results of his actions will be... what kind of man are you? To me you look like an out of control 3 year old child that needs a time out... so put your nose in the corner or I'll put it there for you." He jumped up & came at me once again & I grabbed the fist he threw, twisted it back behind him & had him grab the back of his head as I directed him toward the corner. I held him there for a bit & then when he stopped resisting, I let him go.

His manly anger immediately melted & he sobbed.We had a long talk & he admitted that he really needed to get his anger under control. He knew that his acting out was causing a lot of damage to those around him & he asked me to help him. The police were called & when they arrived they provided both of them with a lot of information & contact numbers that would at least get them pointed down a path for additional help.

Refusing/avoidance intervention of medical professionals is not a man thing because it makes you appear weak to the world.... it is a classic sign of denial & arrogance. Women are just as capable as men about being bull headed & not admitting that they need help. The only way that a person will see this as weakness is to be taught that this is weak. Is this what you were taught? Do you believe that when you come to a place in life where you need help or you are not capable of maintaining control of a situation that you are weak?

Even with my case... sure, the kid had a sudden & new awareness of the world... he knew that I had the complete physical control over him & ability to fuck him up if need be, so yeah, there was a moment of clarity... that doesn't resolve anything. It only warded off the attack, the reason that there was even an attack was the issue & this is something that has to be addressed on a deep mental level. No one has miraculous resolve by getting there ass kicked.

But just like the other kid mentioned in the OP... the one now being made to leave the family home unwillingly... well those dark clouds easily close right in on those brief moments of clarity if you don't follow them up with identifying what it was that caused this negative behavior & then work (consistently) with a plan to heal. In most cases this is not something one can do on their own.

So back to the boy I described... I wasn't his Mother nor was I trying to be, I was a good friend to the father. The kid only followed up with intervention for several months & then he went back to many of the old ways & I do blame the father because he didn't offer the support or consistency that this kid really needed. Though what they went back to wasn't good, at least it wasn't as bad as it had been.

This was a few years ago & I have since moved out of the area. I'm not real sure what their relationship is like on a day to day basis. I speak to the father from time to time & it does seem they still have issues but at least no more physical attacks. 



missturbation -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:48:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW

Interesting that all the comments about how this should have been handled by counselors, given the kid a chance to adjust, learn better behavioral principlals, yada yada yada, all came from women.

Hmm, another downer on women. Interesting you often pull women down in your posts. You seem to infer that women think only with emotion and no clarity.

Boys are different.  They see things like the above as weakness.  An opening.  This kid wasn't 11.  He was 17.  The OP made the correct decision.  The OP didn't mutilate this kid.  He had no broken bones when it was all done.  But he did have a sudden and new awareness about the world.

Fact? Does he have a new sense of awareness or will he just go on to repeat the pattern of violence that seems to be becoming part of his life?
I see no mention of injuries the kid got as a result of being smacked around. Besides broken bones heal, physchological damage sometimes doesnt.

Guaranteed, the kid thought twice from that point forward about ever hitting his Mom (or any other woman) again.

Fact? I know kids who just got worse after situations like this so i dont think you can guarantee anything.

The OP made the correct decision and took the correct action.


Is that a fact?
In my opinion none of us can say what is or was the right thing to do. We don't know the people involved. My initial gut reaction was disgust he had hit this child but thinking about it after maybe he did the right thing for the situation.
 
You state many things as fact here and i seriously doubt you can back them up.


I don't have to.

The fact is, I'm a male, I lived with males, I associated with males and I understand inherently how males don't respond (typically) to confrontation the same way females do.  Ain't nothing wrong with being different, but assuming we're all the same is a huge mistake when dealing with boys.  And no, not all males need a sound physical thumping to get things straight in their head.

This one clearly did.
In your opinion!! You cannot state facts as you dont have them all.

As another poster said, they'd seen several boys grow up in spectacular surroundings with spectacular parents, yet they still turned out bad.  Others raised in horrid surroundings turned out spectacular.  I've seen them as well.

Sometimes kids are just rotten (male or female).  It isn't always the parents, although anyone would rationally and rightly assume that one's surroundings and parental influence is/are a major part of who they become, it is equally true that occasionally, words just don't cut it for some.

From my read on the OP's comments, this kid was one of them.
In your opinion yes but you dont know this boy or his needs or wants.

(So was I, and after much fanfare and tremendous effort and counseling by both of my parents among others, although I never hit a woman, some very well placed discipline by a school in the Midwest was highly effective for me to see the light.  Possibly I was the only boy in all of history that this type of scenario was necessary for...but I'd submit that not only was I not the only one in that school, and for identical reasons...but that it worked as effectively for the other students in my school as well).

No one (I'm certain) is suggesting that all boys should be physically taken down a few pegs to get them to understand the appropriate societal more's...just that some need something with a smidge more impact than a polite discussion will (or has) provide(d).

(And that's a fact).

 If you are going to quote something as fact you should at least be able to back it up, otherwise it is just opinion. Whilst its great you have such strong opinions that is all they are.
 



Sinergy -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:49:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not like seeing kids called names, my opinion.



I would agree with this.  Although I would go even further and state that I do not like seeing anybody called names.  I once coached my kid's soccer team, and I told them first thing out that it is not possible to build oneself up by putting other people down. 

One of my methods in raising my unmentionables was to refuse to play mediator for them.  Come to me screaming about whether to watch Rugrats or Power Rangers, and the television gets locked unemotionally in the closet for a week.  I would tell them that asking me to solve their problems for them might not result in a positive outcome for any of them.  It forced them to learn to work things out for themselves.

Now my kids are well-adjusted, calm, and caring young adults.

quote:



Edited to add: This is possibly why my son has never menaced me even though he has anger problems as MOST teenage boys do. That rush of testosterone tends to make for short tempers, and teenage angst is nothing new. But you are right, it is on the OP that he was denigrating to the kid, his mother just allowed it.



I love the smell of adrenalin and testosterone in the morning.  Smells like teen spirit.

Sinergy 



LotusSong -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 7:59:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

[
quote:



Edited to add: This is possibly why my son has never menaced me even though he has anger problems as MOST teenage boys do. That rush of testosterone tends to make for short tempers, and teenage angst is nothing new. But you are right, it is on the OP that he was denigrating to the kid, his mother just allowed it.



I love the smell of adrenalin and testosterone in the morning.  Smells like teen spirit.

Sinergy 


SOMEBODY had to have some balls... [sm=paddle.gif]



LTRsubNW -> RE: Morals without external influence (12/7/2006 8:00:55 AM)

Nicely put.



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