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myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 4:39:32 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline 		I have been concerned for a while now about the misconceptions about suicide that people post on here as fact. Any talk about wanting to die should be taken seriously.  Recognise your own limitations, ask the person concerned to link in with a crisis counsellor.  Emergency phone numbers are usually in the front pages of the phone book.  Stay with them while they maje the call if it will give them extra support.

Taken from the American Suicidology Website-
UNDERSTANDING AND HELPING THE SUICIDAL PERSON
Be Aware of the Warning Signs

Are you or someone you know at risk of suicide? Get the facts and take appropriate action.

Get help immediately by contacting a mental health professional or calling 1-800-273-TALK (8255)(USA number) for a referral should you witness, hear, or see anyone exhibiting any one or more of the following:

               Someone threatening to hurt or kill him/herself, or talking of wanting to hurt or kill him/herself.
               Someone looking for ways to kill him/herself by seeking access to firearms, available pills, or other means.
               Someone talking or writing about death, dying or suicide, when these actions are out of the ordinary for the person.

Seek help as soon as possible by contacting a mental health professional or calling 1-800-273-TALK (8255)(USA number) for a referral should you witness, hear, or see someone you know exhibiting any one or more of the following:

               Hopelessness
               Rage, uncontrolled anger, seeking revenge
               Acting reckless or engaging in risky activities, seemingly without thinking
               Feeling trapped - like there's no way out
               Increased alcohol or drug use
               Withdrawing from friends, family and society
               Anxiety, agitation, unable to sleep or sleeping all the time
               Dramatic mood changes
               No reason for living; no sense of purpose in life

If in Australia -Lifeline now provides all Australians with access to our 24-hour telephone counselling service on 13 11 14. This service is available to anyone in Australia needing emotional support, for the cost of a local call.

http://www.lifeline-international.org/looking_for_help  
lifeline services available in different countries (paste address into browser)

From an australian website - warning signs and common myths about suicide, aimed at younger people
http://www.nt.gov.au/dcm/youth_affairs/health/mental_health/07_Suicide.pdf

On the suicide prevention resource centre page I have copied the address line thing that takes you to what to do if a co-worker is expressing suicidal ideation.

http://www.sprc.org/featured_resources/customized/co_workers.asp

People kill themselves....a lot! and it sucks.  Being angry at them or calling them a coward or weak will not help suicidal people to get the courage to disclose their fears and thoughts about dying to you.  Telling them to toughen up or grow up or to stop trying to be a drama queen will not help.  Listening to them will help, listening not only with your ears but with your heart.  Let them know that you are afraid for them, ask them to please link in with a crisis centre of some kind - most countries have anonymous phone services. If a friend or sibling or partner, do not be afraid of asking them direct questions eg. are you thinking of killing yourself, do you have a plan, how will you do it etc etc.  If the tablets, alcohol, rope, guns etc are nearby then remove them if possible. Stay by their side for as long as you feel they need you there.  Call another friend to support the two of you, hell, make it a party!

Ultimately a person can and may choose at times to end their life.  In my case I know that I did everything I could do for my brother and that it unfortunately wasn't enough, his demons were way too much for him to handle and he did not feel that it was fair to have his family share his hell with him. I still love him and respect him and know that he was a young man in tremendous emotional pain and they just didn't make a bandaid big enough for him. I know how hard he struggled to keep living and he was one of the 'lucky' ones in that he had a close family, a wife and children who loved him.

If anyone you know mentions feeling hopeless, that there is no point in living or that they just want to go to sleep and never wake up, please ask them/beg them to contact your nearest crisis counselling service.

Melanie

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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 4:43:36 AM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline 		It is nice that someone has taken the time, effort and put the thought into doing this.... Thank you

(in reply to wandersalone)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 5:33:37 AM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		It was kind of you to post this. I "second" it!

- Susan

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to wandersalone)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 6:09:31 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline 		There is no doubt in my mind that those who commit or try to commit suicide are deserving of help rather than condemnation. It appears that to many who actually "do it" their state of mind is such that there is very little that can be done to stop them.

(in reply to SusanofO)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 7:07:24 AM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I've known two people who committed suicide. One was my Grandfather and the other was a good friend. Both showed some of the mood and personality changes on the list. Neither would ever accept any advice or help and neither ever threatened to kill themselves or mentioned wanting to die. They instead just did it. They left no notes, no explanation and their families wondering...why?

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to wandersalone)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 7:19:12 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		A good book on the topic

http://www.amazon.com/Night-Falls-Fast-Understanding-Suicide/dp/0375401458

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Lashra)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 8:05:07 AM   
saphira1


Posts: 17
Joined: 12/6/2006
Status: offline 		i lost a friend through suicide a very good friend she ment alot to me you can see the signs if you only take the time to look unfortunatly her suicidal act was a cry for help that had been ignored by her parents because she was prone to the cry wolf syndrome i believe if she had not have done it then she would have done it anyway she is sadly missed by those whose life she touched she should have been around to touch more.      Love you vicki and always will xx

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 8:32:16 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		4 of my buddies comited suicide. jenn made 1 attempt.  R.S made 4 attepts.

in most states "they" can hold you for 72 hours for observation.  [been there, did that]

i might add, a botched suicide can harm you. for instance- i considered driving off a cliff...well- i could liave and end up in a wheelchair with amputated arm, and crsushed skull= but a life full of pain...

(in reply to saphira1)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 8:53:46 AM   
MercilessMarcy


Posts: 80
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		I had a very close friend threaten to drive her car into a telephone pole.  She got her keys.  I stood between her and the door.  She was going to hit me to move me out of her way but said, "I couldn't do it.  You stood like a lamb, waiting for the slaughter."  She almost fooled me into thinking she was fine.  She wanted me to leave so she could carry out her plans.  Instead I called Suicide prevention.  I camped outside her bedroom door the whole night.  The next day she wouldn't talk to me, too embarrassed.  Her emotional pain was too great to bear.  It took several days before she was okay.  BUT!  Here it is 20 years later.  She's happy, healthy and we're still friends. 

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:24:46 AM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline 		I don't think anyone contends that some people reach out for help and don't get it.  I think my problem with it are the ones that constantly say they are going to, or cry wolf all the time.  I do want to feel that this time could be serious, but when it happens time after time, after time, it does make one sort of role their eyes at "here we go again". 
 
I don't take any of it lightly.  I have been there, in a complete way.  I have friends that have done it also.  Most I have known, when it gets right down to it, never say a word, I know that I didn't either.
 
I feel like I might be giving attention to the sqeaky wheel, when the non-sqeaky one is being ignored for real signs of trouble.  I think that too many people use it as an attention ploy and nothing else, and that is wrong.
 
Goodness knows, if anyone needs my help, I am here for them.  I won't however, bow down and try to help someone that doesn't listen or really want my help at all.  I will save that for someone that really does and that I can help to make a difference with.
 
You can't do anything for anyone if they don't work at it also.  It takes courage and guts to walk in someplace and say you need help.  It's also a very long road with a lots of bumps, tears, and scrapes.  Most would rather whine though, than head down that road and change their lives.
 
I know it's serious, and I think you came up with some great info.  I only hope that someone really needing help will read it and know that it's possible to get it and to be okay.
 
Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to wandersalone)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:34:41 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		unfortunately those "crisis counselling services" aren't always staffed by the most knowledgeable, patient, or caring people. you can call in a desperate moment and be placed on hold for 10 or 20 minutes...only to be ultimately be connected to a teenager who has not a clue, or some sweet elderly retired woman who likewise has not a clue. after conversations with these people suicide may seem all the more sweet.

as someone who's lived with severe depression since the age of 5, i made many suicide attempts in the past. never with any warning, or any notes, or any other such romantics. i would just go for it. remember seeing a movie as a kid where a baby died from sticking her wet finger in an electrical socket...so a couple of days later i tried the same thing...guess it only worked on babies, i just badly shocked myself. i can't remember a time in life when i did not long for death. meds, therapy, in-patient psych care....none of it is a guarantee to success. some people are helped greatly by these things but some people aren't...and the constant trying and trying and hoping leading only to failure after failure can leave one worse off than they started out...just more desperate and lost. that's why it's always frustrated and irritated me when people say, "get some help" or "go see someone"...because some of us has been there/done that, and it's just not the magical answer it's made out to be.

(in reply to MercilessMarcy)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:35:13 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		One thing that's always kind of bothered me: we seem to assume, unthinkingly, that if someone wants to kill himself, we're supposed to intervene and get them to stop--or else grab some professional or call some hotline and ask THAT person to make it stop.  The OP's post seems to reflect that assumption too.

Some people really just want to kill themselves.  I think they should be granted that option.

(in reply to wandersalone)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:36:46 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

One thing that's always kind of bothered me: we seem to assume, unthinkingly, that if someone wants to kill himself, we're supposed to intervene and get them to stop--or else grab some professional or call some hotline and ask THAT person to make it stop.  The OP's post seems to reflect that assumption too.

Some people really just want to kill themselves.  I think they should be granted that option.



thank you for saying this Lordandmaster...i wholeheartedly agree. sometimes the most loving and merciful thing you can do for a person is to just let them die, in peace.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:41:40 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I hope that those who posted stupid remarks on two other recent threads which touched on the subject of depression and suicide, read this thread and change their ideas as a result.

Wanders knows how I feel about all this, and why, and I agree with her totally in starting this thread and in the stuff she posted. I read somewhere that 1 in 3 of us will suffer clinical depression at some point in our lives - not feeling a bit unhappy for a while, but a grinding, overwhelming, all encompassing grey smog that seems impossible to lift and which makes every instant of every day a struggle to live.

I also read that suicide risk occurs when the pain exceeds the resources to cope with the pain. Emotional pain, is pain, for anyone who doesnt know or hasnt had the experience. It should be for each of us to bolster the coping resources of others, depressed or not, so that we might have a world where suicide is not seen as the only way to stop the pain.
E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:43:57 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		~quick reply~

Not all suicides can be prevented through intervention. 
Suicide is the third cause of death in young adults (15-24), behind accidents (including vehicular accidents) and homicide.
Females are more likely to attempt; males are more likely to succeed (they chose more lethal methods).

Any cry for help should be taken seriously.  But as many have said, you often won't hear so much as a wimper.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 9:59:14 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

~quick reply~

Not all suicides can be prevented through intervention. 

Any cry for help should be taken seriously.  But as many have said, you often won't hear so much as a wimper.



Thats exactly the way it worked for me Katy.

No one was interested in my cries for help 5 years ago - "buck yourself up", "dont be so stupid" etc

So I figured that if no one is interested, then why bother asking for help? Just get the thing planned properly (I'm not giving any tips, but trust me, I know how), and do it.

The really stupid thing was - I sat there and thought, if I'm so f'in worthless and deserve to die, then since life as a worthless piece of shit would be far more of a punishment, I didnt deserve the get out clause of suicide.

So here I am, as a result of a suicidal inner conversation than came back on itself more or less!

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to KatyLied)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 10:58:52 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		So many people are touched by the tragedy of suicide, yet it's not spoken about often. It's almost a taboo subject and I once heard it described as a *pornographic death*. My experience bears that out.

People feel very uncomfortable when suicide is mentioned...unlike an accidental death, death after an illness or from old age etc......it has such an ugly face.

Recognising  the signs of impending suicide isn't easy,...........even with a handy *list*. One or two signs may be present intermittently and you have to know what they are; life can still seem *normal*.
For many people there is no *cry for help* and many would have been thankful to have had that clear sign.

The pain of the person that manages to end their life purposely must be unbearable......

But, once accomplished, my sympathies lie with the survivors. The ripples of pain and guilt spread far and wide. THEY are now dead, and beyond the constant gnawing questions that go unanswered and the guilt and self-blame that never really is assuaged. There's no dialogue, no chance to change anything, no way ever to know *Why? or Why now?*.

I have the book that Katy recommended and I'd also suggest another, which is extremely revealing and helpful if anyone wishes to understand a little more about it and it's effects.....(A Special Scar by Alison Wertheimer) published by Routledge.

agirl



(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 11:46:31 AM   
justanotheclaire


Posts: 113
Joined: 8/15/2006
From: cambs, uk
Status: offline 		i nearly did it once
i ran away packed my bag(all the pills in the house)
wrote my note im sorry i love you all
my intention meet up wiht my Master spend the night wiht him and fall alseep in his arms and never wake
ive always suffered with depressiona nd learnt some wonderful trick in keeping myself from ever really feeling anything
this one broke down the barriers and got under my skin showed me how to feel again
then went back to his wife lol
lifes been dark since then
not because of him but because i feel now and i have about 16 years worth of sadness to deal with
i dotn really have many people who i cn talk to counseling on the nhs allows initially for 6 sessions jst enough to open your can of worms and dump you
i wont take pills they only hide the problem and nto deal wiht it
it hurts alot its almost all consuming but right now im ok
the fear of the silence of death scares me more than the pain
as long as i have thta balence im ok
i did somehtign silly a few days ago
i took a razor blade and grazed the inside of my arm a few times the little bite of the antiseptic was nice
and most pretty
it was a real feeling  and it made tears ok
lolcself hard desireable trait in a subbie lol

i havent written this because im suicidal
im writing this so that someone somewhere knows right now this ones having a tough time
its an attempt to stay sane i guess
a way of saying it without haveing to see how people react


i wont re read this so typos abundant  if i did i would delete it and it would never get said and be another chain to carry around my neck


(in reply to agirl)
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RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 12:05:33 PM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		justanotheclaire....for what it's worth (probably not much i know), you're not alone in your pain or in your struggle. feel free to buzz me "on the other side" if you ever care to chat.

(in reply to justanotheclaire)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: myths about suicide - 12/6/2006 1:24:28 PM   
CalliopePurple


Posts: 2539
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: SeaTac area
Status: offline 		I've tried twice and I've had moments in the recent past where I thought about it seriously. Even looked at one of the links given in another thread to methods and contemplated the success odds of each. When I saw that the tips for ODing were very similar to my second attempt, I just blinked. For right now, knowing how close I came and that I would have died if I had done one more thing has scared me enough to deal with life for the time being. But I still agree with Lam and daddysprop - some people are simply unable to feel any better despite the miracles of modern medicine and they should be allowed the option of no more mental anguish. I want the option if I ever get into a black time that simply will not end. As decent as life is at the moment, it's still dark grey. No white and not much light here, despite the silly moments.


_____________________________

Kimi ni aitakute dare yori mo aitakute
hajimete kimi ni atta hoshizora no shita de.
Kimi ni tsutaetai todokanai omoi demo
boku no kokoro wa mada kimi o sagashiteiru.

Gackt - Kimi ni Aitakute

(in reply to daddysprop247)
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