Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Controlling Yourself


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Controlling Yourself Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:05:55 AM   
daddysprop247


Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline 		i don't think that a submissive must be "in control" of themselves/their life in order to be a valuable asset to a Dominant or to build a healthy, successful relationship with one. now for certain Dominants, thay may desire only an "in-control" strong submissive, but some desire the very opposite. i know that before i was owned, i was a complete mess. my submissive nature left me vulnerable to the world...i was lost in every sense of the word, constantly being used and abused, drifting from one crazy disaster to the next. i was never able to live independently, simply because i never cared enough about my own welfare. however my Master met me and was drawn to me by the very uncontrollable submissiveness and vulnerability that i hated. He is the type who needs to control absolutely, he is drawn to the weak and helpless, as opposed to the strong and independent, so for him i was perfect. for another Master i'd be a nightmare.

just be who you are, imo. there will be one who is most attracted to that, and because of this compatibility you will build a successful union.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:09:32 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i have found that i control myself very well away from outside influences.  Put me on an island alone and i will prolly have built a shelter, made a camp fire, searched for all sorts of food and at the end of the day sit looking out over the ocean as the sun goes down.

Put me on a deserted island with one who is "controlling" things and i will probably stand there not knowing what to do.  I will ask a million question of what we should do next.  How they want it done.  Nothing is cut and dried for me when i am working on what some one else thinks.

I'm starting to notice a trend.  When i am in control everything is logical and calculated out, every occurance is in a way premeditated.  I am extremely in control, even if it looks to outsiders i am not. 

It seems that when i let another take over control - i tend to lose myself in them and i lose my own control.  I do not know why that happens, the only thing i can guess is that i feel that there can not be two leaders and if i stay in control there will be two leaders.  The problem for me comes when the one who is the leader is not a good leader.  I have yet, in my life found a good leader who can lead my life better then i can.  Who giving control over to does not mean everything falls apart.  For me, being paired up with a bad leader - tends to ensue all sorts of problems.  Not only am i not in control - but things are going all sorts of haywire and things are happening that shouldnt happen.  I end up doubting myself.  When things go haywire and i am not in control and those that should be arent leading well - i tend to go haywire.

And this was excatly the thinking that had me ripping control away from my parents at the age of 14.  My life was a mess, i was hurting and confused, and no one was leading properly. 

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 12/9/2006 8:11:40 AM >

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:30:56 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		double posting

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 12/9/2006 8:39:44 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:33:00 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I agree with this, if I am out of control then no one can control me except by force. That does away with the idea of consent. If I have control over myself then I am able to give it away to someone else, just as I give my submission.

The more I examine WIITWD the more I believe that the things that make a good submissive are the things that make a good dominant, and vice versa...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:37:33 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see this concept of "If a dominant is not in control of themselves then they cannot control anyone else."  I agree with it to a point.  However, I also think the flip side is just as relevant.  If a submissive is not in control of themselves then they do not have any control to give any one else.

What do others think of this?  Do you think that both need to be in control of themselves to build a healthy relationship or does that responsibility lie solely with the dominant?

Knight's kyra


No, I do not think a submissive needs to be in control of him/herself to build a healthy relationship.  In various dynamics such control may be needed to keep and maintain the relationship, however.

I was a mess when Master found me.  I had very little self control, no self esteem or self confidence, and had no idea who I was or what I even liked.  None. I was a toss-out, and in such a depression I really didn't care much about anything anymore.  I had given up on my slavery, and was close to giving up on my life.  But he saw something in me, and he touched something which got my attention.  He gave me some tasks to test (yes, to those of you who despise tests, he tested) my potential, and later said I responded to him like no other girl has responded.  He said I was the most detailed, careful-to-get-it-right girl he had seen, and he knew if he could get through to me, and if I would continue to follow his lead, I could be quite a slave.

Over time he taught me to love myself, to think highly of myself, and to be the best slave, person I can be.  The self control I have is that which he either taught me or gave me.  He takes over where I am lacking, or where he simply wants the control.  If I did not have control enough to obey that would be a different story.  I think that was all the control I needed.  I'm not even sure that was control, though.  It was an inner drive and need.  I think if I had had too much control, I would never have completely given my mind over. 

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:55:31 AM   
hejira92


Posts: 2272
Joined: 10/27/2005
From: Palm Beach County, Fl
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HollyS


Pretty much any time one person is solely responsible for the health and well-being of the relationship, its doomed to fail.  So when you said that both partners need to be "in control of themselves" (and I agree with you), to me that means emotionally maturity -- being open, flexible, empathic and genuinely concerned for the other's welfare, even when it's really hard.

For a long time I've said that for there to be a genuine power (authority) exchange, a submissive needs to be powerful in the first place. Personal power...you have to have it to give it up. And when someone else really wants it, it’s that transfer and acceptance of desire that amounts to submission.

JMO, of course.

~Holly



I totally agree. I have always been a powerful, well balanced person. Master says that is what gives my submission value.
I think those not in personal control are the ones who put themselves in danger. How often do we hear about someone meeting once and declaring themselves collared? Then, all too soon, the "relationship" disappears into the mist from which it sprang. To have it together in BDSM, you need to have it together everywhere.

(in reply to HollyS)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 8:56:14 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		This is where the forgotten "d" in bdsm comes in- discipline.  Most subs just use discipline as another word for punishment, or expect it to be completely externally imposed.

For me, discipline is all about self control and holding to the commitments you agreed to.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to MasterNdorei)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:24:13 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

This is where the forgotten "d" in bdsm comes in- discipline.  Most subs just use discipline as another word for punishment, or expect it to be completely externally imposed.

For me, discipline is all about self control and holding to the commitments you agreed to.

I agree, but discipline can be learned.  I don't think it is needed to build the relationship from the start.  I believe you can start with nothing, but if your will to learn is there, you can achieve anything. I agree it is very beneficial to already have self control/self discipline, but I do not see it as absolutely necessary, in every case.   I guess I'm seeing the word "need" as an absolute, and I'm taking it literally.  I know Kyra hates absolutes (*waving to Kyra) so maybe she did not intend it that way.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:33:36 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

This is where the forgotten "d" in bdsm comes in- discipline.  Most subs just use discipline as another word for punishment, or expect it to be completely externally imposed.

For me, discipline is all about self control and holding to the commitments you agreed to.

I agree, but discipline can be learned.  I don't think it is needed to build the relationship from the start.  I believe you can start with nothing, but if your will to learn is there, you can achieve anything. I agree it is very beneficial to already have self control/self discipline, but I do not see it as absolutely necessary, in every case.   I guess I'm seeing the word "need" as an absolute, and I'm taking it literally.  I know Kyra hates absolutes (*waving to Kyra) so maybe she did not intend it that way.


In my original response to this thread, i commented that for some, coming from a place of "total" (though i'm not sure that is more than a perception on a person's part) lack of control, can work for some. And based on your posts in the past, i was actually thinking about you owned when i made the comment. i also agree with your comment here, that it is very beneficial.

heartfelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:41:38 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I don't think a submissive needs self-control to submit. When you think about what submission is, its just a giving over, even the least in-control type submissive person is able to do that, perhaps even more easily than someone who has self-control.

I don't think a dominant personality needs self-control either to dominate. We can see that play out with abusive type dominant personalities.

However, for a healthy and happy relationship to occur between a dominant and submissive, self-control needs to be established by both parties. If there was a percentage factor involved of more or less, I would say initially, the dominant personality would require more self-control to begin with than the submissive one. (i.e. It would be very difficult, if not impossible for a submissive to submit to someone who had less self-control than themselves). 

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:42:47 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub
In my original response to this thread, i commented that for some, coming from a place of "total" (though i'm not sure that is more than a perception on a person's part) lack of control, can work for some. And based on your posts in the past, i was actually thinking about you owned when i made the comment. i also agree with your comment here, that it is very beneficial.

heartfelt

Yikes I must confess I was only scanning through the replies when I posted, and I missed your post.  I basically echoed what you said - sorry!  But I guess that means your perception of my journey is pretty accurate :)  Thank you for your additional comments.

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:49:02 AM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		I personally have a tendency to be a very controlled person..(not sure if that is good or bad as of yet however)..so hence if  I am a controlled personality, I feel I would respond better to one who is also a controlled individual.To my way of thinking a  Dominant who is uncontrolled would lessen himself in my eyes...so thus not a good match.........clear as mud?...Tempting

(in reply to slavejali)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:51:15 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		No-one is in control over anything more than where you choose to focus your attention.

Everything else is an illusion, and when we pass, even that may be lost....


(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 9:53:48 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Not a problem, hope my comments about your past posts came across in the spirit in which i meant them, as an example of a healthy D/s relationship.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 10:06:38 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		They did, and I thank you for that

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 10:09:43 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I think it all rather depends on what you control about yourself and how.

No way am I in control of every aspect of myself and my life and I doubt I ever will be. It doesn't mean I am a walking disaster, merely that I find some things come a little easier or naturally than others. I have no problem recognising my strengths and weaknesses ( and if I did, I have a master that has no problem pointing them out ...LOL)

There are obvious benefits to having certain aspects of ourselves under a modicum of control, at least. There are quite a few areas where I wish I wasn't so lacking in self discipline but I'm not going to change hugely now.

If I had absolutely NO  self-control about ANYTHING, the best place for me would be a Secure Unit.

agirl



(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 10:48:15 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

I often see this concept of "If a dominant is not in control of themselves then they cannot control anyone else."  I agree with it to a point.  However, I also think the flip side is just as relevant.  If a submissive is not in control of themselves then they do not have any control to give any one else.

What do others think of this?  Do you think that both need to be in control of themselves to build a healthy relationship or does that responsibility lie solely with the dominant?

Knight's kyra


No, I do not think a submissive needs to be in control of him/herself to build a healthy relationship.  In various dynamics such control may be needed to keep and maintain the relationship, however.

I was a mess when Master found me.  I had very little self control, no self esteem or self confidence, and had no idea who I was or what I even liked.  None. I was a toss-out, and in such a depression I really didn't care much about anything anymore.  I had given up on my slavery, and was close to giving up on my life.  But he saw something in me, and he touched something which got my attention.  He gave me some tasks to test (yes, to those of you who despise tests, he tested) my potential, and later said I responded to him like no other girl has responded.  He said I was the most detailed, careful-to-get-it-right girl he had seen, and he knew if he could get through to me, and if I would continue to follow his lead, I could be quite a slave.

Over time he taught me to love myself, to think highly of myself, and to be the best slave, person I can be.  The self control I have is that which he either taught me or gave me.  He takes over where I am lacking, or where he simply wants the control.  If I did not have control enough to obey that would be a different story.  I think that was all the control I needed.  I'm not even sure that was control, though.  It was an inner drive and need.  I think if I had had too much control, I would never have completely given my mind over. 


I liked this post...  It brings to mind the questions of what does it take to learn self-control?  Some people learn this in childhood and others seem to become adults with little understanding of this concept but then learn it over time.  Some people have it and then lose it.

I know that over time I have become better and better at this, though I am not perfect.  There were also periods of my life where I completely lacked this and my life was in chaos.  It was very gratifying to take that control back.

The other point that strikes me is the last sentence...  I met my Lord after almost a decade of being independent and single and letting go of that is a big struggle for me.  Going from an independent, self-sufficient person to an interdependent relationship with two other people creates a lot of chaos in my head.  Letting go of expectations of how something "should be done because that is the way I have always done it and I know it works, damnit!" to just going with the flow in a relationship with someone who can change directions on a dime... creates a lot of chaos.

So can self-control be a double edged sword in a relationship?

The questions are for anyone who wishes to answer and not just ownedgirlie.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 10:57:37 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

This is where the forgotten "d" in bdsm comes in- discipline.  Most subs just use discipline as another word for punishment, or expect it to be completely externally imposed.

For me, discipline is all about self control and holding to the commitments you agreed to.

I agree, but discipline can be learned.  I don't think it is needed to build the relationship from the start.  I believe you can start with nothing, but if your will to learn is there, you can achieve anything. I agree it is very beneficial to already have self control/self discipline, but I do not see it as absolutely necessary, in every case.   I guess I'm seeing the word "need" as an absolute, and I'm taking it literally.  I know Kyra hates absolutes (*waving to Kyra) so maybe she did not intend it that way.


*g* yes, I very much dislike absolutes.  It is a bad habit that I am unlearning.  To be honest, I have not thought of the word "need" as an absolute before.  Maybe it is; I will have to think about that. 

I only agree with the statements I wrote in part.  Mostly because people are not perfect and I think each person has their own healthy balance of self-control vs. out of control that is right for them. 

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 11:17:41 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
I liked this post...  It brings to mind the questions of what does it take to learn self-control? 


Well for me it took years with a lot of tears, wailing and gnashing of teeth.  But to give you a more complete answer, I need to think on this a bit.  So...I'll get back to you on that. 

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Controlling Yourself - 12/9/2006 11:30:15 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		The only things that make our relationships any different than any others are: 1) we have chosen to have highly structured relationship AND 2) we have decided that there will be a transfer of authority. Why some people think that this releases them from the same relationship responsibilities they have in vanilla ones, I dunno.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Controlling Yourself Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109