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Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 8:15:03 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		How DO you punish a Masochist?

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 8:25:24 AM   
PlayfulOne


Posts: 1047
Status: offline 		If one felt there needed to be a punishment you would punish them the same as anyone else.  Everyone is an individual there is no "punishment" laid out in the handbook.  The purpose of the punishment would be to disuade the behavior from happening again so the actual punishment would be something they would not want to repeat.  One persons punishment would be anothers joy so choose wisely.

K

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 8:25:37 AM   
SmokingGun82


Posts: 575
Joined: 6/19/2004
Status: offline 		This becomes a semantics issue that I know I'm in the minority on... which is why I didn't bring it up in the "Terms you hate" thread. I feel that "punishment" is bad, for both parties, and "play" is fun, even if fun equals pain for the masochist/sub. So, the few times I've been in a situation where "punishment" is called for, it's been something non-physical. Does she hate being left alone? Then go sit in the corner while I do whatever. Or no contact for a few days. I suppose I took it literally when my parents would say "This is going to hurt us as much as it hurts you" before handing down one of numerous groundings.

(Note: I understand punishment roleplay. I even understand the usage I refer to above. I mean no disrespect towards anyone's manner of play, just mentioning my own.)

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 8:35:13 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		I have always kept punishment and play separate. What I use for punishment, I never incorporate as play.
 
This is how Wikipedia defines it:







Definition:



1. sexual pleasure through humiliation: sexual gratification achieved through humiliation and physical and verbal abuse



2. psychological disorder: the psychological disorder in which somebody needs to be emotionally or physically abused in order to be sexually satisfied



3. search for abusive sexual partners: the active seeking out of sexual partners who will dominate, humiliate, and physically and verbally abuse



4. enjoyment of hardship: the tendency to invite and enjoy misery of any kind, especially in order to be pitied by others or admired for forbearance



_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 9:07:52 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I apologize LotusSong....and anyone else who takes offense at this but this topic drives me up a wall.

I can understand "punishment" when it is done in the context of "oh you bad girl, you did______.....you know you're going to have to be punished now...drop your drawers and come here". It's a great reason to have an impromptu scene.

But punishment in the context of trying to actually correct a behavior issue.....nope....just don't get it. In my own personal opinion, we are supposed to be responsible adults here. Responsible adults hold themselves accountable for their actions. They make mistakes and they learn from making those mistakes. If you are in a relationship, chances are that you have a desire to make that a fulfilling experience for you and your partner. We all make mistakes from time to time. That should negate the need for punishment.

If you are a person who can not control yourself and your behavior and find that you need to be punished in order to learn lessons or just stay in line....I would suggest that you lack the maturity to be in an adult relationship.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 9:21:37 AM   
MasterNdorei


Posts: 658
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		One look of disapointment, and i am punished. Anything that happens beyond that is to either clear my conscience, or allow Master to express His frustration.

Because His happiness really IS the most important thing to me, and i am devastated to have provided less, He can use the same actions He rewards with, or He can use others... it is the mindset that makes the difference with U/us.

Humbly,
Master's dorei

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 9:26:35 AM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I apologize LotusSong....and anyone else who takes offense at this but this topic drives me up a wall.

I can understand "punishment" when it is done in the context of "oh you bad girl, you did______.....you know you're going to have to be punished now...drop your drawers and come here". It's a great reason to have an impromptu scene.

But punishment in the context of trying to actually correct a behavior issue.....nope....just don't get it. In my own personal opinion, we are supposed to be responsible adults here. Responsible adults hold themselves accountable for their actions. They make mistakes and they learn from making those mistakes. If you are in a relationship, chances are that you have a desire to make that a fulfilling experience for you and your partner. We all make mistakes from time to time. That should negate the need for punishment.

If you are a person who can not control yourself and your behavior and find that you need to be punished in order to learn lessons or just stay in line....I would suggest that you lack the maturity to be in an adult relationship.


I agree with this point of view up to a point.  Let me play devils' advocate here though and suggest another idea.  Many times BDSM allows us forms of cathartic therapy.  How wonderful it is to recieve punishment, and when the punishment is done, the issue is resolved unless it comes up again.  I think it an interesting alternative way to view punishment.  This idea may not work for everyone, but I can see the value of it.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 9:46:27 AM   
amaidiamond


Posts: 1793
Joined: 2/6/2006
From: Watford / London
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperedsighs

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I apologize LotusSong....and anyone else who takes offense at this but this topic drives me up a wall.

I can understand "punishment" when it is done in the context of "oh you bad girl, you did______.....you know you're going to have to be punished now...drop your drawers and come here". It's a great reason to have an impromptu scene.

But punishment in the context of trying to actually correct a behavior issue.....nope....just don't get it. In my own personal opinion, we are supposed to be responsible adults here. Responsible adults hold themselves accountable for their actions. They make mistakes and they learn from making those mistakes. If you are in a relationship, chances are that you have a desire to make that a fulfilling experience for you and your partner. We all make mistakes from time to time. That should negate the need for punishment.

If you are a person who can not control yourself and your behavior and find that you need to be punished in order to learn lessons or just stay in line....I would suggest that you lack the maturity to be in an adult relationship.


I agree with this point of view up to a point.  Let me play devils' advocate here though and suggest another idea.  Many times BDSM allows us forms of cathartic therapy.  How wonderful it is to recieve punishment, and when the punishment is done, the issue is resolved unless it comes up again.  I think it an interesting alternative way to view punishment.  This idea may not work for everyone, but I can see the value of it.


I am one of those subs for whom the real "punishment" is that I have disapointed or shamed the man who is my entire world, a look of dissapointment from him is like a knife going into my guts.
Now I am a responsible adult and I can control myself however for me a punishment is a clensing, a catharsis as it were, when it is done, it is over, a line is drawn and the slate is clean and I am redeemed, things are well again in my world and I can let it go.
If not punished, or rather, if not given that line drawn underneath i have a tendency to punish myself, dwell on the dissapointment I caused, brood and it will chip away at me inside, I'm not saying thats right or wrong but it's the way i am.
I fully understand the punishment for absolution and closure because that is the way my mind works

(in reply to whisperedsighs)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 9:50:08 AM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond

quote:

ORIGINAL: whisperedsighs

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I apologize LotusSong....and anyone else who takes offense at this but this topic drives me up a wall.

I can understand "punishment" when it is done in the context of "oh you bad girl, you did______.....you know you're going to have to be punished now...drop your drawers and come here". It's a great reason to have an impromptu scene.

But punishment in the context of trying to actually correct a behavior issue.....nope....just don't get it. In my own personal opinion, we are supposed to be responsible adults here. Responsible adults hold themselves accountable for their actions. They make mistakes and they learn from making those mistakes. If you are in a relationship, chances are that you have a desire to make that a fulfilling experience for you and your partner. We all make mistakes from time to time. That should negate the need for punishment.

If you are a person who can not control yourself and your behavior and find that you need to be punished in order to learn lessons or just stay in line....I would suggest that you lack the maturity to be in an adult relationship.


I agree with this point of view up to a point.  Let me play devils' advocate here though and suggest another idea.  Many times BDSM allows us forms of cathartic therapy.  How wonderful it is to recieve punishment, and when the punishment is done, the issue is resolved unless it comes up again.  I think it an interesting alternative way to view punishment.  This idea may not work for everyone, but I can see the value of it.


I am one of those subs for whom the real "punishment" is that I have disapointed or shamed the man who is my entire world, a look of dissapointment from him is like a knife going into my guts.
Now I am a responsible adult and I can control myself however for me a punishment is a clensing, a catharsis as it were, when it is done, it is over, a line is drawn and the slate is clean and I am redeemed, things are well again in my world and I can let it go.
If not punished, or rather, if not given that line drawn underneath i have a tendency to punish myself, dwell on the dissapointment I caused, brood and it will chip away at me inside, I'm not saying thats right or wrong but it's the way i am.
I fully understand the punishment for absolution and closure because that is the way my mind works


Thank you, you said it in a way I was struggling to find the words to express!

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to amaidiamond)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 10:15:45 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

How DO you punish a Masochist?

However you want.

One of the biggest myths of bdsm is that you can't use pain to punish a masochist- of course you can.

Punishment is in the MINDSET, not the action.  If they know it's a punishment, and are internalizing it as such, then it will be a punishment.

If they don't internalize it, then it doesn't matter if they are a masochist or not, no amount of impact will turn it into a punishment.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 11:38:16 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		No, I will not spank you. Go to your room.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 11:46:30 AM   
Caitriona


Posts: 327
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline 		There is a big difference for me in being spanked for pleasure and being spanked for punishment.  My Lord knows that I am not pleasured in any way by being spanked when I am in trouble.  It's more about the mindset during the action, not the action itself.

_____________________________

Property of Shadowraven
Serving alongside ciarra

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 11:46:33 AM   
Aine


Posts: 820
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline 		I definitely agree with LA.

For it to be a punishment for a mis-step, bad behaviour etc....it has to be perfectly clear that it is a punishment, not play, not part of a scene.

Adding in what others have said...the look of disappointment from one's Dominant, knowing that you've done something wrong, definitely helps in the submissive/slave internalizing it and therefore resigning one's self to whatever punishment a person deems necessary, whether it be physical or purely mental and/or emotional.

Ideas that I personally think would work well for anyone, not just masochists are things like lack of physical contact with their Dominant, silence from their Dominant, having to write something in regards to the infraction.  Explaining on paper (or typed) what the sub thinks that they did wrong and how it made them feel to know that their Dominant was upset and/or disappointed in them for their behavior, generally within a certain numerical constraint like 200 words or something.  (Which is something I've had to do in the past during a short period of training, and for me was effective)

For those that are attention-whores/brats, having to sit in the corner with no attention being paid to them, not being allowed to speak, especially in front of company (kink-friendly, of course).

Masochists, a complete lack of physical contact for a period of time, or no floggings, spankings etc for a set amount of time.

I personally think that any of these things used together would be effective on the right sub/slave, depending on the personalities and dynamics.


_____________________________

Honey, you obviously missed the "want to be used as a toilet fetish" thread or "where do I get instructions on setting my sub on fire" thread. LOL

Thank you, DelRay for that one.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 12:07:45 PM   
Daddysredhead


Posts: 23574
Joined: 11/6/2005
From: Northern (yet still part of the South) Virginia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: amaidiamond
I am one of those subs for whom the real "punishment" is that I have disapointed or shamed the man who is my entire world, a look of dissapointment from him is like a knife going into my guts.
Now I am a responsible adult and I can control myself however for me a punishment is a clensing, a catharsis as it were, when it is done, it is over, a line is drawn and the slate is clean and I am redeemed, things are well again in my world and I can let it go.
If not punished, or rather, if not given that line drawn underneath i have a tendency to punish myself, dwell on the dissapointment I caused, brood and it will chip away at me inside, I'm not saying thats right or wrong but it's the way i am.
I fully understand the punishment for absolution and closure because that is the way my mind works


I can identify with this as well.  I am a mature adult, however there are some things that I desire to have some accountability to my Master so that certain habits or non-affirming behaviors can be stopped because they are not positive or healthy for me.  Most of the time, I keep these things under control, but when I haven't, I tell Him.  It's almost like "confession" (if I were Catholic), where I admit that I have had struggles and failures at avoiding certain behaviors or what have you.  I have asked Him in the past to help establish some boundaries and consequences for when those boundaries have been broken.  Now, if something comes up, I know that there is a pre-determined consequence as a result, that which I have asked Him to be a party to.  I don't think that makes me immature, I think it's about accountability and teamwork.  I want to please Him and I want to better myself, if having "motivation" such as a certain punishment is part of it, then fine.  That works for us.

_____________________________

Founding Member, Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's

Do not challenge me to a battle of wits & come to fight unarmed.

Are you really that stupid? ~ Bless your heart

13th doughnut


(in reply to amaidiamond)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 5:39:57 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		I'm with everyone else, its a cleansing effect.  For us, it's a starting fresh.  Something happens - i screw up, or i get pissed, or i just get snotty or something and i throw up walls and then i tend to misbehave like its going out of style.  I will misbehave on the simplest little things too.  I will also hold my ground for months on end if allowed.  I'm a very stubborn and hard headed individual.  It is one of the ways that he uses to come in and break down my walls.  He knows as well as i do that i will tell him until i am blue in the face and be convinced of it, that things are great.  It is one of his ways to get me to a head space that clears out all the walls and puts things back into place.  It may be odd, but it works for us.

Generally speaking, he does not punish me for miss behaving as he knows it is symptomatic of something bigger going on that i am unable to speak of.  He usually waits it out to see if i can resolve the issue in one way or another.  Either that or it starts to get wildly out of hand. 

Sounds odd, but it works for us when needed.

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 12/10/2006 5:42:44 PM >

(in reply to Daddysredhead)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 6:06:09 PM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

How DO you punish a Masochist?


Well if you really need to know, it sure as hell isnt with a crop, cane, flogger or other disciplinary implement, otherwise your giving a masochist a reward! Opt instead for taking things they TRULY enjoy away from them instead. Im guessin your posting this thread moreso for newbies than yourself, are you bored dear? <g>

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Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 6:31:42 PM   
whisperedsighs


Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline 		The group of people I spend most my time with do not use pain as a punishment.  Unless, it is just a mischievous response to mischievious behavior.  Pain is reserved for the good masochists.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
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RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 6:39:37 PM   
slavemaia


Posts: 395
Joined: 8/26/2006
Status: offline 		There are many ways to punish a masochist. Simply find out what they really don't enjoy and have them do that as punishment.

_____________________________


She reaches up, not for the apple, but for what causes it to be there.
slave to love - - Chairman's maia

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 6:44:19 PM   
Mikal


Posts: 3673
Status: offline 		Ignoring the whole 'punishment is right/wrong' thing... from another thread, it seems that the majority of masochists can NOT stand to be tickled or lightly touched repeatedly. So, assuming your masochist is the same, I'd tie 'em down (very well - you don't want to get hit with a flailing limb) and tickle them, then stroke lightly, and tickle... repeat until you're satisfied. Then leave the masochist for a while to cool down, before untying.

_____________________________

You know that I am a sexy penguin.

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Punishing Masochists - 12/10/2006 6:53:14 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SirLordTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: LotusSong

How DO you punish a Masochist?


Well if you really need to know, it sure as hell isnt with a crop, cane, flogger or other disciplinary implement, otherwise your giving a masochist a reward! Opt instead for taking things they TRULY enjoy away from them instead. Im guessin your posting this thread moreso for newbies than yourself, are you bored dear? <g>


Nah, it was just a funny thought.  I know subs that seem to relish being beaten and if the Master/Mistress isn't "brutal" enough, they feel they are weak. 
 
I discaplined my sub once having another domme met the punishment.  He was going to take it until he passed out (he said).  Friend Domme took him to task and ADVISED him strongly  to safeword and then go find his Mistresse "..if he still had one"
 
This took place at a gathering at my home. I had retired to my dungeon in back of the house where I sat in the dark, waiting.  He found me and knelt.  Slave and I had a ritual where by we would begin every meeting with me putting his collar on him and in the end.. removing it. I had removed his collar before the pain part of it.  He found me holding it when he knelt at my feet.  I told him he will either represent us with dignity or he can pack his bags. I tossed it on the floor before him and as I left the room, I told him it's his choice.  Put it on and join me once he has chosen or simply walk out the door.  It was no more than two minutes and he was again  seated on the floor by my side.  His head was down and when I reached to lift it to see his eyes.. I saw a pair of dialted pupils with fear in them.  I told him it's ok.  Afterward, we talked and he said the worse part was putting his collar on by himself.  It was the loneliest he had ever felt.
 
There are many more details as it all unfolded. I just listed the highlights.  There has never been another time I had to punish him.  I would never do anything like that again.  T'was early in my dominance.  I learned a heck of a lot about us both.  He's been with me almost 10 years.
 
My mental "tortures" are far worse than my "physical" ones.
 
 
 

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


(in reply to SirLordTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 20
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