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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 9:10:01 AM   
theRose4U


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quote:

When ending a relationship, do you think it's smart to set yourself up in the next one before you end the one you're in?

I've known this kind of person. The description that even a business person would understand is morally bankrupt. Master fire was very correct in the statement that this is the kind of friend that will push you under the bus when the chips are down and not someone that will be there for you with real trouble.
Armchair psychology is that she's filling a hole in herself with men...ANY MAN. That's not the most desirable trait in a sub, partner or companion.
His deception is grounds for ending the relationship. The probelm is ending the relationship means giving up the benefits that come with it...like her housing. It seems like getting her own place and being a responsible adult would make her life more stable. This doesn't mean she can't have her rotating gallery of men (if she chooses), it just means that she'll no longer be homeless each time she makes a bad decision.
I had a room-mate like this that every week was "in love" with some new bad boy. She tried to move out each time and with the help of her daughter we were able to convince her to at least keep an independent home base. She paid less rent  for never being around (she would partially move in with these guys) but when things went bad (usually in the middle of the night) she could just come home.
I openly called her my drama momma. I don't recommend taking her into your home but helping her to find a roommate (rent a room) situation would be a good idea.
The number of issues on both sides of this situation are too numerous to list but it brings to mind something my grand-mother used to say..."if you shop in the bargain bin for a mate, you get what you pay for".

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 9:11:44 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


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Not dealing with the ending relationship and going directly into another is a recipe for disaster.  Personally if this happened to me and I decided I wanted out of the relationship I would tell him my feelings and tell him I was leaving. I think a person needs time to heal and deal with things before jumping into a new relationship.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 9:46:42 AM   
Serenityy


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Well, since you did not ask for advice on your friendship itself, I will refrain from making comments about it.
 
If I was to find out that my partner was not exactly what I had thought, I would sit myself down and decide how damaging the new information was. I would then decide whether or not I could live with the changes and act accordingly.
 
When ending a relationship, I never go into another before the first is done. That's dishonest, not only to my partner, but to myself also.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 9:54:10 AM   
gypsygrl


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In response to your first questions, if I found out a dominant I was involved with was a cross dresser, I'd want to have a conversation about it.  I might be a bit disconcerted that he didn't tell me sooner, but since its not a health risk to me and only involves minor issues of trust, I'd try to get over it depending on his reasons for keeping the information from me.

I do have a soft spot in my heart for male crossdressers because I used to have a really good male friend who liked to wear my tights, and he was so cute and happy when he put them on, thats what I usually think of when I think of cross dressers.  I don't like the whole diva thing, but I think thats just because I don't go for the glamour look myself and doesnt have much to do with cross dressing per se.  I also tend to be rather indiscriminate genderwise when choosing my own clothes, and wear a lot of guy clothes, so I figure if I can dress like a guy, guys ought to be able to dress like women.

That having been said, I don't know how I'd feel actually submitting to a guy wearing women's clothes.  Its kind of a funky thought, and I'm not sure how it would affect a d/s dynamic.  Though, as a submissive, I have done plenty of stuff I wasn't all that thrilled with because my partner was into it, and since I'm not squicked by the general idea of cross dressing, and don't have any moral reservations about it, I suppose I'd have to seriously consider it as viable.  If it didn't work, I'd be willing to find an arrangement where he could do his cross dressing thing on his own time without involveing me directly.  I don't imagine that, in and of itself, finding out that my partner was a cross dresser would be reason for ending the relationship, all else being equal. 

As far as  your second question about folks who get set up in a new relationship before ending an old one, the idea sounds kind of dodgy to me.  I have, in the past, ended up with overlapping relationships but thats because I'm not the sort of person to actually end a relationship unless absolutely necessary.  I would prefer to just let them know that I'm seeing other people and have a conversation about it on the assumption that we can still remain on good terms.  This doesn't always work out, and I've learned from experience that sometimes its best to just make a clean break rather than doing something that sends mixed messages. 

I guess the biggest problem I have is with your friend not cluing her dominant in that she has made her decision.  Her conviction that its the way "smart women" do things seems problematic but  I  know that some people approach relationships that way.  My ex husband had a girlfriend who did that and told him, when she finally broke up with him for good, that its dumb to 'quit one job before you find another.'  When I heard about that, I was like 'wow, thats cold.' It just makes me wonder about people.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:06:50 AM   
LotusSong


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<< I also tend to be rather indiscriminate genderwise when choosing my own clothes, and wear a lot of guy clothes, so I figure if I can dress like a guy, guys ought to be able to dress like women. >>

... but do you alter your speaking voice, pack a prosthetic penis and change your name to Bubba and insist on being addressed as a male?  THAT's THE DIFFERENCE.
 
I have no issue with guys enjoying the silky things..but come on now.. it takes WAY more than a pair of fake boobies and a lisp to be a female :/

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:11:00 AM   
MasterFireMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
Master fire was very correct in the statement that this is the kind of friend that will push you under the bus when the chips are down and not someone that will be there for you with real trouble.


Ummm...I don't think I said this...and it's not what I implied if you inferred it from something I did say. Just because she's not moral in one area doesn't mean she's not totally loyal in another. Of course, it doesn't mean that she IS either, which, I think, is your point. The OP implied that they've been friends for some time, so apparently there are redeeming qualities there.

Master Fire

< Message edited by MasterFireMaam -- 12/19/2006 10:15:36 AM >


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:12:04 AM   
Lashra


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I'm the Domme and my sub is a crossdresser. He wasn't when we first started out, oh no he was very different as he had been a Master in his previous relationship. Does it make me view him differently? Yes, I view him as being extremely strong for being able to stand up and tell me that it was something he'd always longed to do. He was afraid to tell me (he never dared tell his slave as he knew they'd reject him), very definitely so as he knew I could easily view him as less masculine. But I didn't, you see I don't believe that saying "the clothes make the man", I believe its what is on the inside that makes a person. To many people wrongly view cross dressers as *gay*, wearing women's clothing doesn't make one gay, loving or enjoying sex with a person of the same sex does (or at least makes one bi).

I think your friend is WRONG not only is she judgemental, but also a  cheater, decietful and along with that comes its friend lying...I honestly think he is the one getting the better end of the deal once she is gone. Hopefully she will find the alpha male of her dreams who one can only hope will cheat on her so she knows exactly how it feels.

~Lashra

< Message edited by Lashra -- 12/19/2006 10:13:57 AM >


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:13:45 AM   
gypsygrl


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The op only mentioned a skirt, fishnet stockings, heels and makeup.  So, I was treating it as an issue of cross dressing, and not more involved forms of gender bending.   

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:15:23 AM   
KatyLied


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It doesn't hurt to remind people that a fetish does not necessarily make a person less dominant or less of a dominant.  

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:22:34 AM   
Lashra


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

It doesn't hurt to remind people that a fetish does not necessarily make a person less dominant or less of a dominant.  

Very true my sub is dominant with everyone but Me. So I am sure his subs/slave never suspected that he had crossdressing desires. I think its rather sad that people equate a dress/skirt on  a man with being less dominant, perhaps even submissive. I wear them occasionally and I'm just as dominant as when I wear pants so I don't think the clothing design has any effect on personality or sexual orientation.

~Lashra


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:40:59 AM   
SusanofO


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OMG I am not sure what I'd do if I had actually decided to leave. I am not sure I'd even want to leave over something like that (she didn't know what cross-dressing was, but was ultra-familiar w/bdsm? Really?) But that's not your question...

It's hard for me to leave people, once I've made a committment to them in my heart. I don't see myself immediately seeking someone new. It took me three times to leave an ex-boyfriend I knew was terrible for me in many ways, one time. I kept moving out of his house, then moving back in. We'd have a fight (and I very rarely fight w/men, it's just not my "M.O.", I tend to cry a lot, get depressed, and just clam up. But, things were pretty weird at that point, in this relationship). Then he'd call me and we'd go out, and pretty soon I'd move back in, etc. The third time, was a "charm" though, and I left for good. 

On the other hand, the person I just broke up with I know I will never see again (but that situation involved physical abuse - non consensual, which had never happened to me before, and really threw me for a loop, so to speak). In that situation, it is different for me because 1) I am going to court and prosecuting him. There is no chance that a "friendship" will even be repaired in this case. 2) He claims he hates me now (I can deal w/that, I suppose). I myself honestly don't hate anyone, but my heart isn't exactly growing fonder of him by the day.

I am not pining for him. I do think about some of the "good times" we had, occasionally, but that's about it. I don't want to go and re-connect w/him, or anything like that. I really don't. So, I feel more ready in this case, to "move on".
It's like I think of the whole thing as a bad dream, or a mistaken interlude that was just never meant to be (or t least, I am trying to do that). So, it doesn't "count", really, or something. Which kind of upsets me, because it was my first (and only) D/s relationship. I've had a few "encounters" (two) besides that, but he's mostly "it" for me, really, in the D/s world.

I don't, in general, think a woman "needs" to find someone new immediately. I myself tend to want to heal a slight bit at least, from a bad situation.

On the other hand I did cheat once. And in no small way, either. It was not a "fling", it was a full-blown, long-term affair. I cheated on my husband when he was alive. But - that was after ten years of no sex or affection whatsoever in our marriage, and I am hard pressed still to feel very guilty over that. I tried to "make it work", for what seemed like forever (ten years). I became suicidally depressed, and convinced I was a terrible person or this would never have happened to me, and thought it was my fault for years. And then one day, something in me just snapped and I just said to myself: "That's BS. You deserve better. You deserve some happiness". I don't want to debate whether that was right or wrong here. I admit it was wrong, but I also think they were pretty weird circumstances (at least I think so), and I was on the verge of leaving him, when he got sick. I really was. But I had an affair first for over a year.

But it really wasn't because I didn't think I could not survive without a man in my life - it was because I was desperately lonely at that point. I've broken up with people and been alone before. Sometimes it's better, for awhile. Sometimes it's not. I know this isn't a very clear answer, but I do really think it all depends on the particular circumstances.  

I doubt if cheating is a great option, though, as a general rule. It's not a "nice" thing to do to someone else, no matter what they are doing (or have done) to you. It's always easier to judge someone else if you've not walked in their shoes, though.
Yes, it's wrong. I do understand it sometimes, though. I can see why it happens, sometimes.

So, I've been on "both sides of the fence". But I think the smarter option is to just leave and take some time to heal. Doesn't mean that's what people always end up actually doing, though, and I can understand it when they don't, I think.

It's not a good option to cheat. I'd not do it again. I really wouldn't. I don't do it as a general rule, it's not a "habit" of mine. I dont need a man in my life all the time. I've gone years (literally) without having a man in my life before. There have also been years I've not been without someone, too. I'm not the kind of woman who needs someone always, but I have had terribly lonely periods in my life, too. I think I can understand the heartache part, if she is  going through any of that now. 

If she's used to always having a man in her life all the time, she has probably convinced herself that's what she "needs". She probably doesn't, actually, but maybe she sort of does. I'd bet she'd be hard to convince she doesn't. Maybe she's always been around family members who also operate that way, or something. The women in my family are fairly independent. My mother was, for instance, and encouraged my sisters and I to be the same. But some people just aren't wired that way, I don't think. I'd rather have someone than not have someone in my life, I think though.

- Susan    

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/19/2006 11:38:31 AM >


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:50:06 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl
My ex husband had a girlfriend who did that and told him, when she finally broke up with him for good, that its dumb to 'quit one job before you find another.' 


Thank you gypsygrl. I quoted this because she actually did say this to qualify her smart women statement. I guess that is why I said that she seems to treat relationships like business arrangements.

I also think that you brought up another good point...one which I also tried to address with her. When you spoke of him finding another outlet on his own time that didn't involve her. I believe that could be a viable solution that would possibly save a relationship.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:53:58 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam
Just because she's not moral in one area doesn't mean she's not totally loyal in another. Of course, it doesn't mean that she IS either, which, I think, is your point. The OP implied that they've been friends for some time, so apparently there are redeeming qualities there.


Thank you for saying this. Indeed we have been friends for a long time and contrary to what some have said....she has proven to be a good friend who has been there for me "when the chips were down". I don't have to agree with every aspect of how a person lives their life in order to maintain a friendship. If that were the case I would likely not have many vanilla girlfriends either or friends with whose parenting strategies were different from my own...just as examples. Now if she were trying to directly involve me in something that went against my own beliefs...that would be a very different story.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 10:58:58 AM   
mistoferin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra
Does it make me view him differently? Yes, I view him as being extremely strong for being able to stand up and tell me that it was something he'd always longed to do. He was afraid to tell me (he never dared tell his slave as he knew they'd reject him), very definitely so as he knew I could easily view him as less masculine.


I believe this is another excellent point. I did try to explain to her that, not to excuse his deception, but that maybe he fully intended to disclose this aspect of himself but had not yet quite figured out how to do so without the fear of losing the relationship. I think that it is indeed a difficult thing to "come out" so to speak, whenever there is a part of us that is viewed as being "outside the norm". With this issue especially, and the views surrounding anything that detracts from the masculinity of a man, it would be a difficult thing to discuss with someone new....and yes, I agree it would take some real strength.

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Peace and light,
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There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 11:01:30 AM   
theRose4U


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: theRose4U
Master fire was very correct in the statement that this is the kind of friend that will push you under the bus when the chips are down and not someone that will be there for you with real trouble.


Ummm...I don't think I said this...and it's not what I implied if you inferred it from something I did say. Just because she's not moral in one area doesn't mean she's not totally loyal in another. Of course, it doesn't mean that she IS either, which, I think, is your point. The OP implied that they've been friends for some time, so apparently there are redeeming qualities there.

Master Fire


My bad and sincere apologies.

My comment was in response to the following by crouching tigress

quote:

you say she is a friend...but i warn you ....when the chips are down you would get thrown under the bus...she is not a "thick or thin" sort of person...she is demonstrating a very thin moral character.


I very much agree with the comment of this moral character. People can be good friends and still have questionable morals. Frankly you wouldn't be here airing her dirty laundry if she was above reproach.

Collecting doms or men like they're potato chips doesn't show that she's secure in herself at all. You can be good in business and be terribly insecure in relationships. These boards are ripe with outwardly successful women (doctors, lawyers and indian chief's) that are terribly insecure about their personal lives.
Personal track record shows that "friends" willing to change relationships like they're dirty socks will do the same to you. Normally when you really need them.

< Message edited by theRose4U -- 12/19/2006 11:20:37 AM >


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 11:13:00 AM   
catfood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Of course....her response was "No way...I'm not meant to live alone".

Funny, but I was thinking just the opposite.  If I were in your shoes, I would disclose what I knew of the situation to him and re-evaluate if I wanted to continue to be good friends with someone like her.

~stef


well spoken.  one can rationalize and qualify shitty behavior until the cows come home, but it is still not right.  for someone engaging in bdsm, my word is my bond, and i am rigorously honest.  i question others (as the OP did) when they are trying to invoke the old "sliding scale value system" where their values change to fit the situation.  while open disclosure may be a little ott, re-evaluating your friendship may be in order.  after all, if the situation presents itself where she "has to do what she has to do,"  and you just so happen to be on the short end of that "has to do," well...won't be such a good friendship after all.

best of luck, sorry you find yourself in this spot.



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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 11:24:50 AM   
theRose4U


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quote:

for someone engaging in bdsm, my word is my bond, and i am rigorously honest


curiosity question, why does engaging in wiitwd somehow make these characteristics more valid? I would think that these would be good traits to look for in any partner not just "lifestyle".

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 11:52:57 AM   
AquaticSub


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~Fast Reply~

Your friend sounds like one of my best friends. She won't break up with a man until she has another relationship in line, but her reason is that it keeps her from sleeping around with a bunch of guys. Remind your friend that real women are honest.

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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 11:57:25 AM   
Devilslilsister


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If i found my Dom dressed like a woman - i would probably burst into giggles.  I would try not too, but i know i would lose the battle.  I might also ask him if he would prance around in the panties for me and my face would be scarlet red from the hilarity of it.  I would probably then go on to tease him merciless.  I would ask if i could dress him like a mermaid - if i could tie him up and treat him like the naughty little girl he was.  Oh i would have a field day!  I'd tell him i didnt mind if he called me "Mommy"  ::chuckles::  It WOULD be great. 

Once i got over the hilarity of the situation, we would play 20 questions.  I might ask him if there was anything else i didnt know.  Does he bark like a dog too?  Just to tease him of course.   I might enjoy the "kink" of it because humilation can be fun (in a scene or something)!  As for my Dom in woman's clothing on "just" because he feels like it basis - i might find strange.

I honestly dont know how i'd seriously about the whole Dom in womans clothing thing.  I would have to cross that when i got to it.  I wouldnt really consider it deciet either.  Many people are frightened about opening up with the things they like because of how they'll be looked upon.

as far as one deciet equals another.  Two wrongs dont make a right and we all have to live with our own morals.  Sometimes i bend my morals sometimes i dont.  I've ended a relationship because i wanted to be with another.  But i've never found another to end a relationship. 

whatever floats your friends boat - she's the one that has to live, learn, and be herself.


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RE: Uh Oh!...What would you do? - 12/19/2006 12:32:43 PM   
agirl


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Leaving aside the *cheating*part..........She has to be a great actress if she can *pretend everything's okay*......while on the prowl..... knowing that she's going to be off...... not mentioning her distaste or her difficulty.....to be that calculated and carry it off..........would be amazing.........never mind *smart*.

agirl 

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