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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 6:59:14 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeargentDave

I will not get foul mouthed or ignorant but isn't he is inviting hardship for his countrymen, who will endure it in the name of their faith? Using someone's faith to further a personal agenda is not acceptable. He is smart in preparing for the final war between Christians and Muslims because it is coming sooner than anyone expects. His actions, however will lead to the deaths of millions of people as did Hitlers.




Actually,  Ahamdinejad is a pretty smart dude. {Speaking rhetorically} Do you notice every time he ups the ante with his rhetoric, the price of oil goes up and you and I pay more at the pump.



- R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 7:13:26 AM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Michaelat92544

I'd like to admire him with a 9mm bullet to his forehead and a few cruise missiles in Tehrani suburbs.

Michaelat92544:
Aren't the suburbs where non combatants live.  Are you seriously calling for the bombing of women and children, schools and hospitals?
thompson

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 7:17:08 AM   
popeye1250


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Merc for President!

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 7:20:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Well, interesting responses. Gee, I didn't expect such an aversion to pragmatic political leadership. Personal attacks I expected in lieu of intellectual discourse.
quote:

Domiguy: How can you admire a man who doesn't allow the education of his people but has the wealth to make it happen...you have had some other posts...Mexican Illegals..and others...do you happen to be a member of any of the above mentioned groups?  It is one thing to have an opinion it is another to blindly adhere to a belief that cannot be backed up 
How Ahamdinejad applies his power wasn't the point. His people elected him. Their education and their quality of life must up to the expectations of their vote. Does the reference to illegals indicate you support illegal activities? Any others, or are you selective in your need for national security and sovereignty? However that debate should be on the appropriate thread.
No - not a member of those groups - are you? 
quote:

:Lucky Dog: The "capitalist theocracy" what the heck does that mean?   You think denying the Holocaust is a valid point?  Thanks for admitting you don't believe that planes took out the Towers either, that explains a lot of where you are coming from.  And there was certainly an international outcry over his conference.  And you ignored my point that his slate lost power in the recent elections.  Not a sign of support from the people.  On the American scene, David Duke compares, he was even at his conference.  I thank God we don't have any politicians taken seriously like Amanjinidad here....  Pax Irania?  Where is that?  Hundreds of millions of people live prosperous peaceful lives under the protection of the USA, where does Iran provide any such thing?
"Capitalism" has been compared to a religion with it's 'god'-money. Many, some elected in the US, identify it as the key reason we're in Iraq?

I don't think the Holocaust denial is valid. The validity is in his belief that it is. Having an open debate sheds light and identifies those that feel the same. Why isn't this a good thing even if you disagree with the premise? Where was the outcry? Every night when I watch CNN the lead story is the failure of Iraq. There was no special report, no segment on 60 Minutes, Dateline, or any major news program. All of them have regular features of dying US soldiers and the incompetence of the US Administration in all things. The denial of 6 Million deaths, and a symposium on the subject was comparatively ignored.

The point wasn't that Ahamdinejad was taken seriously. The point was integrity. He can be wrong in all his positions, but yet he's not afraid to stand behind them. Compare that to any on the forefront. Hilliary Clinton voted for the Iraq invasion. How far is she distancing herself now? Ask Obama about his liberal history and he shrugs his shoulders. The gang of 14 Republicans, left President Bush with no clear plurality in the Senate making him impotent. US politicians are solely self protecting in their positions. Ahamdinejad is clear, to the point of setting himself up as a likely target for death, not just a political campaign loss.

Afraid of a Pax Irania? Is your US prejudice showing? Now you understand what the rest of the world had to 'suffer' through for the last 25 years. Since the demise of the USSR the US has had it's way with everything that's occurred in the world. It's responsible for the starving children, the AID epidemic, global warming, and the proliferation of Trans Fats in foods. Thankfully, our elected Representatives are focusing on these important issues and making laws to protect us from our self abuse of Trans Fat, cigarettes, and the like. The fact that in Iran those things are limited to berkas on woman identifies a difference or a similarity? TV and Radio programming is also controlled similarly in the US. So, if that abuse of power was exchanged for an Iranian influence you would be afraid?

No - I didn't admit that two planes didn't take down the buildings that I used to work. I only suggested that not everyone believes that they did and offered it as a comparison. READ CLOSELY.

quote:

Macheal I'd like to admire him with a 9mm bullet to his forehead and a few cruise missiles in Tehrani suburbs.
Nuke tipped? Are you and people like 'Northern Gent', who see him as a threat, abusing and enslaving his people, in support of an invasion of this sovereign nation? What would you expect to happen? Why would French, Spain, Russia, and China support such an initiative when currently Iran is their primary 'big ticket' customer for hard military goods while getting a discount on Iranian oil? What would be accomplished by such an action?

quote:

Meatcleaver: Like all leaders that pretend to be strong, they seldom are and are really covering up their weaknesses. Take a note of Bush. The epitome of a weak character.
As MC points out - Ahamdinejad is just like Bush.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 12/21/2006 7:49:23 AM >

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 9:50:57 AM   
luckydog1


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I didn't say I was afraid of Pax Irania, I asked where it is?  I see no evidence of it ever existing, the persians 4000 years ago don',t count.  You can find people comparing anything, that means nothing.  But there isn't anything like a guardian council of capitalism, that can dismiss the president at any time for no stated reason.  Amanadinijad can be fired at will with no notice by the Gaurdian Council, he has very little power.  Kofi Anan, most every state in the EU and North America, several in Asia and Africa all condemned the confrence, I have no idea why you would consider American news headlines to be the deciding factor over wether there was na international outcry or not.  "The validity is in his belief that it is."  You must use a non standard definition of validity.  Tv and radio is similarly controlled in the US?  How can you possibly think that?

But really your whole post is summed up by the end of your last post to Meat, "As MC points out - Ahamdinejad is just like Bush. "  which negates your starting premise
"There is nobody active, or on the horizon in US politics from either party, that compares to him in the US - Pity. "  And please get a dictionary and look up"valid" . 

As for me I am just glad that the elections last week, showed that the populace of Iran doesn't agree with you.

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 10:46:27 AM   
meatcleaver


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The conference on the holocaust was idiotic because it made Ahamdinejad look like an idiot and there were many Iranians saying as much and students at Tehran University were demonstrating against the conference because it made Iranians look bigoted and backward. However, reporting the fact that many Iranians were protesting against the conference wasn't news worthy to most western media because it made many ordinary Iranians look reasonable.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/21/2006 10:47:54 AM >


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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 12:17:16 PM   
Voltare


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

No he hasn't. If Iran doesn't negotiate over its nuclear policy you can bet that if the USA doesn't destroy Iran's nuclear programme, Israel will, with tacit agreement of the USA.

He hasn't taken advantage of his country's enemies weaknesses, his enemies have been charitable in the extreme in fighting an unnecessary war (Iraq) and getting themselve bogged down and allowing its client state (Israel) in the middle east to also fight an unnecessary war that has strengthened its enemies.

Iran's economy isn't doing well and with the threat of international sanctions it will do less well.

Meanwhile there is unrest and demonstrations in the universities. The majority of the country being under 25 and not born when the Iranian revolution occured. They want modernisation and freedom. Ahamdinejad has to decide between clamping down or liberalizing. Heads the opposition win, tails he loses.

Like all leaders that pretend to be strong, they seldom are and are really covering up their weaknesses. Take a note of Bush. The epitome of a weak character.


Excellent post.

I do believe two planes hit the towers, as much as I believe anything I see live on network television (I was watching the live report of building one, when the second came crashing in.)  I don't believe people like Bush and his congressional cohorts are bright enough to manage some super-secret world order.  Having seen first hand from Headquarters Marine Corps (as a lowly clerk) people who can't even keep track of the locks in their doors simply aren't capable of the kind of co-ordination required.  Oh, and I believe the German records, thousands of tattooed arms, photographs of stacks of human hair, and millions of witnesses to the holocaust.

I will grant that Ahamdinejad's charismatic in a way.  So was Hitler.  I will grant that he's doing relatively well in a high stakes gamble.  I know Hitler was too, and if the US hadn't gone head to head with Hitler, there'd have been a very different European Union: one that speaks German, and pays with a Mark.  It doesn't mean I have anything against Germans, either.  But in the end, the louder you yell that you're going to start a war, the more attention you attract.  The more bombs and tanks you buy to prove it, the faster you end up in it. 

Anyone ever stop to wonder why there are several Muslim countries that don't feel such high anti-Western hostility?  Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar - the list goes on.  Yet, one could say the same for Mahmoud's buddy, Chavez.....


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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 12:51:08 PM   
DCWoody


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Few things to throw out there, of the candidates that were banned from running, the majority were merely wackos who you wouldn't have got even 1% of the vote, there was a complain about two of the bannings as those two people did have support, and the council reversed their bans.
To say Iran isn't a democracy is to say that the UK isn't because in theory the monarch could refuse to confirm the elected PM if they didn't like him/her.Which doesn't happen.

Also, Mahmood is a moderate in his country, the bad human rights, treatment of women etc were inherited, left overs from the (usa & uk supported dictator) Shars reign. Mahmood has famously (and when I say famously, I mean within Iran, cos I'm damn sure it wasn't reported in the west) been making/changing legislation to make women more equal.

Third thing.....USAs biggest Arabian allies?
Saudi Arabia, dictatorial monarchy.

Notable Arabian democracies?
Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Palestine. All coutries which would prefer it if the western world stayed the hell out of middle eastern business.

Do you think the west is doing a good job of encouraging democracy?



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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 1:19:43 PM   
Voltare


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I don't think -anyone- should be doing a good, or bad, job of encouraging democracy.  To be fair, I'm not even sure that democracy is all that great of a style of governing; it's never really been tried, since all we have are republics.  A minor difference, I'm sure, but since the responsibility for failure and success never really rests with the voters, but rather the figureheads they are bilked into supporting, we're left picking up the pieces.  To face the facts, Bush was re-elected because people wanted him to do the dirty work, whether they approved of his methods or not.

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 1:32:55 PM   
Lordandmaster


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But international politics isn't the Wild Wild West.  We've been doing exactly what you wrote in your first sentence--and what has that brought us?  A failed war and a worthless currency.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Basicly, he says fuck the rest of the world and opinion and does what he thinks is best solely from the perspective of his country.

I can respect that.

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 2:22:41 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Few things to throw out there, of the candidates that were banned from running, the majority were merely wackos who you wouldn't have got even 1% of the vote, there was a complain about two of the bannings as those two people did have support, and the council reversed their bans.
To say Iran isn't a democracy is to say that the UK isn't because in theory the monarch could refuse to confirm the elected PM if they didn't like him/her.Which doesn't happen.

Also, Mahmood is a moderate in his country, the bad human rights, treatment of women etc were inherited, left overs from the (usa & uk supported dictator) Shars reign. Mahmood has famously (and when I say famously, I mean within Iran, cos I'm damn sure it wasn't reported in the west) been making/changing legislation to make women more equal.

Third thing.....USAs biggest Arabian allies?
Saudi Arabia, dictatorial monarchy.

Notable Arabian democracies?
Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Palestine. All coutries which would prefer it if the western world stayed the hell out of middle eastern business.

Do you think the west is doing a good job of encouraging democracy?



There was severe oppressions under Shah but the oppression of women because they were women was not one of them.

Call for the clergy to leave politics to the politicians and you will find how democratic Iran is.

In the UK in theory the monarch has a lot of rights (Used by the Prime Minister of the monarchs behalf) but in practice if the monarch was to invoke those rights it would mean their removal.

Palestine isn't a democracy because it isn't even a country. Iranians aren't Arabs. What's your point?

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 12/21/2006 2:24:46 PM >


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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 2:36:53 PM   
humiliationsissy


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Whenever i read posts like some of these, it makes me afraid that i live in a democracy.  I think to myself, "They are allowed to vote?  They don't have a freakin clue!" 

BTW, the word "admire" or any form of the word should never be used in the same sentence as "Ahamdinejad."

Signed,
A Very Jewish Sissy

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 4:16:25 PM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: humiliationsissy

Whenever i read posts like some of these, it makes me afraid that i live in a democracy.  I think to myself, "They are allowed to vote?  They don't have a freakin clue!" 

BTW, the word "admire" or any form of the word should never be used in the same sentence as "Ahamdinejad."

Signed,
A Very Jewish Sissy


The word admire shouldn't be used for any politician, especially ones that start wars. While Ahamdinejad is a buffoon and maybe a dangerous buffoon, he hasn't started a war like, let me think.....Bush, Blair, Olmert, for example.

_____________________________

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 8:58:34 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

No he hasn't. If Iran doesn't negotiate over its nuclear policy you can bet that if the USA doesn't destroy Iran's nuclear programme, Israel will, with tacit agreement of the USA.

He hasn't taken advantage of his country's enemies weaknesses, his enemies have been charitable in the extreme in fighting an unnecessary war (Iraq) and getting themselve bogged down and allowing its client state (Israel) in the middle east to also fight an unnecessary war that has strengthened its enemies.

Iran's economy isn't doing well and with the threat of international sanctions it will do less well.

Meanwhile there is unrest and demonstrations in the universities. The majority of the country being under 25 and not born when the Iranian revolution occured. They want modernisation and freedom. Ahamdinejad has to decide between clamping down or liberalizing. Heads the opposition win, tails he loses.

Like all leaders that pretend to be strong, they seldom are and are really covering up their weaknesses. Take a note of Bush. The epitome of a weak character.


Excellent post.

I do believe two planes hit the towers, as much as I believe anything I see live on network television (I was watching the live report of building one, when the second came crashing in.)  I don't believe people like Bush and his congressional cohorts are bright enough to manage some super-secret world order.  Having seen first hand from Headquarters Marine Corps (as a lowly clerk) people who can't even keep track of the locks in their doors simply aren't capable of the kind of co-ordination required.  Oh, and I believe the German records, thousands of tattooed arms, photographs of stacks of human hair, and millions of witnesses to the holocaust.

I will grant that Ahamdinejad's charismatic in a way.  So was Hitler.  I will grant that he's doing relatively well in a high stakes gamble.  I know Hitler was too, and if the US hadn't gone head to head with Hitler, there'd have been a very different European Union: one that speaks German, and pays with a Mark.  It doesn't mean I have anything against Germans, either.  But in the end, the louder you yell that you're going to start a war, the more attention you attract.  The more bombs and tanks you buy to prove it, the faster you end up in it. 


Anyone ever stop to wonder why there are several Muslim countries that don't feel such high anti-Western hostility?  Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Qatar - the list goes on.  Yet, one could say the same for Mahmoud's buddy, Chavez.....


 
Voltare:
I believe most of us have seen the vidios of the planes hitting the buildings.
I have yet to meet one engineer or one person with a degree in physics who believes that those buildings fell as a result of the airplane crashes.  There are numerous sites on the web with sufficient information about the physics of buildings and how they fall. 
I would agree that 8th and I is not the repository of   the sharpest tacks in the marine corps  box but then col. North did not operate out of 8th and I. 
I tend to agree with your assessment of dubwa unless  he is the worlds best actor.  No I do not believe anyone can act that dumb.
As for the U.S. going head to head with Hitler ...the U.S. was a minor player in that war...had we never entered it Russia would have whipped Hitlers supermen all by themselves.  Hitler never commited more than thirty divisions to western Europe while he sent several hundred to Russia.   For example  Germany lost a quarter of a million men just in the attempt to take Moscow...that is more than all the battle deaths  for the U.S. Army for the whole war.   
You are right in the sense that Europe would be different today if we had not been there but it would be russian they would be speaking and not german.
The muslim countries that don't hate us as much as the rest of the muslim countries is because we pay them to be nice to us (kinda like someone would pay a whore to be nice to them)  Like all whores they will only suck our dick  as long as we continue to pay.
As for Hugo I am unclear as to what you ment but would be most interested in finding out.
thompson

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 12/21/2006 9:22:06 PM >

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 9:41:59 PM   
Voltare


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Briefly, I've never been to New York.  For all I know, the Statute of Liberty is just a model, and the real thing fell into the sea during David Copperfield's magic tricks. 

I do know that one day the towers were up.  Then planes crashed.  Then they came down.  I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but even Dubya could figure that out.  People with rather absurd theories will always get attention, because they present us all with what we want - a possible theory where the very worst didn't really happen, like in Evil Dead when they don't want to believe their friend is now a raving zombie.

I'd suggest that Hitler made the same idiot mistake as Napoleon - got stuck attacking Russia in the winter.  Never get stuck in a land war in Asia.  Having said that, without the invasion of Normandie, Hitler would still have been able to exploit the vast resources of Europe to invade a Russia that was already wavering the following year.  Such are the theories our friends, Woulda & Coulda through history.

It's interesting to note that the Muslim countries who hate us, also get paid by us.  We still buy Iranian oil, and Venezuelan oil for that matter, much like the snooty French waiter who spits in your soup, over-charges you, and insults you on the way out the door. 

I saw an interview with the King of Jordan on BBC, and I have to say, he didn't look like a whore. 

http://www.kingabdullah.jo/homepage.php

If anything, the sort of common sense and reason he displayed could teach our own leadership a thing or two about ethics and religious tolerance.  Perhaps we wouldn't have so many people calling for the destruction of the US if we didn't spend so much time and money trying to manipulate other nations like puppets on strings.


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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 9:57:33 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

But international politics isn't the Wild Wild West.  We've been doing exactly what you wrote in your first sentence--and what has that brought us?  A failed war and a worthless currency.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Basicly, he says fuck the rest of the world and opinion and does what he thinks is best solely from the perspective of his country.

I can respect that.



Respecting someones intentions, isn't the same as respecting their views. I can without conflict respect a persons honesty, and at the same time disrespect their views on issues.  I can't respect someone that is dishonest. So, from that view I'd say he's at least is honest. That would seem to be one step up from what we are dealing with in our own politicians.

Like I can respect fellow posters honesty, but at the same time repulsed by the concepts they believe in.


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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 10:00:47 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Yeah, I agree with that.  It's kinda hard to be a phoney when you're an outspoken Islamic fanatic Holocaust-denier.  With nuclear weapons that he's itching to try out.

But yes, I agree that he's probably honest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

Respecting someones intentions, isn't the same as respecting their views. I can without conflict respect a persons honesty, and at the same time disrespect their views on issues.  I can't respect someone that is dishonest. So, from that view I'd say he's at least is honest. That would seem to be one step up from what we are dealing with in our own politicians.

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 10:11:51 PM   
dcnovice


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LaM, why are you wasting brain cells on politics when we need you to solve the latest "Things in Common" quartet?

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 10:14:57 PM   
Lordandmaster


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You would have saved me a couple of hours of bullshit if you had asked me this yesterday or the day before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

LaM, why are you wasting brain cells on politics

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RE: President Mahmoud Ahamdinejad - My Hero! - 12/21/2006 10:18:31 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

Briefly, I've never been to New York.  For all I know, the Statute of Liberty is just a model, and the real thing fell into the sea during David Copperfield's magic tricks. 

I do know that one day the towers were up.  Then planes crashed.  Then they came down.  I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but even Dubya could figure that out.  People with rather absurd theories will always get attention, because they present us all with what we want - a possible theory where the very worst didn't really happen, like in Evil Dead when they don't want to believe their friend is now a raving zombie.

I'd suggest that Hitler made the same idiot mistake as Napoleon - got stuck attacking Russia in the winter.  Never get stuck in a land war in Asia.  Having said that, without the invasion of Normandie, Hitler would still have been able to exploit the vast resources of Europe to invade a Russia that was already wavering the following year.  Such are the theories our friends, Woulda & Coulda through history.

 
You might want to do a little more reading in this area.   Hitlers biggest mistake was going to an ass kicking contest without his  boots.  He was out manned, outfought and out gunned.  After Stalingrad was never able to mount a successful offensive.
 


It's interesting to note that the Muslim countries who hate us, also get paid by us.  We still buy Iranian oil, and Venezuelan oil
for that matter,
When Hugo Chavez sugested that he might quit selling oil to the U.S. shotgun Dick went on nationwide tv (meet the press with Tim Russert) and announced if Chavez would not sell us oil we would go take it.

much like the snooty French waiter who spits in your soup, over-charges you, and insults you on the way out the door. 

I saw an interview with the King of Jordan on BBC, and I have to say, he didn't look like a whore. 

http://www.kingabdullah.jo/homepage.php

If anything, the sort of common sense and reason he displayed could teach our own leadership a thing or two about ethics and religious tolerance.  Perhaps we wouldn't have so many people calling for the destruction of the US if we didn't spend so much time and money trying to manipulate other nations like puppets on strings.
I could not agree more.
thompson



(in reply to Voltare)
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