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RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 7:35:25 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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The good news is that you're dealing with this NOW- not after dragging some poor soul in with promises of long term happiness only to have it blow up with everyone hurti n the end.

The good news is that you have all the time in the world to work it out together. There's no need to make the ultimate choice today. Keep talking, keep exploring. When you have things fully settled and happy together, then will be the time you go where you have decided to go.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 21

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 7:47:16 AM

LovingKitten

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

True, I have no doubt that this won't happen for a LONG time...rofl.

_____________________________

The art of submission lies not only in serving, but serving with grace.

Collared to LigatioAmor

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 22

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 7:48:20 AM

afeathr

Posts: 248
Joined: 6/1/2006
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingKitten

To everyone else, I really appreciate all the insight you have brought into this. I apologize for not answering each of your posts individually, at the moment I am rather sleep deprived and don't have the patience to do so. (My apologies again)

As for the situation, it was brought up as a joke in the beginning, but more and more lately it has become a serious issue in our discussions. Yes, I have tried to talk with my Master about it, and we have come to an understanding of where the other lies in the situation, but at the same time we haven't come to a medium or a solution. To say that our relationship was rocky to start with and that it has gone over quite a few rough roads in the space of a little over a year I have been collared is an understatement, thus my insecurity. I do know that I am confident in my abilities, at least I know what I can do, and what I need to work on. (not claiming ANY perfection here lol)

I just wanted some outside opinions on the subject.

Now this statement tells a lot more. I can see why you would be having some of the feelings that you are, given the situation. (Sleep deprivation aside).

If this is a situation that was brought up recently, or fairly recently, after some "rocky" times had occurred, I can see exactly where the jealousy could come from. You feel that things are not up to par with your Dom and that he may be looking for someone to replace you, while still keeping you in the wings until that person is ensconced in the relationship with him. Then... he would be free to decide which he would rather have all the while claiming this is a "poly relationship" thereby trying to quell your potential jealousy... am I close?

It would seem that a real heart-to-heart needs to be had, here. It's one thing to have some twangs of jealousy over the thought of losing him to another in a normal situation (things are rough, but you want to try and he has the "wandering eye" syndrome), but if he is using this as a lure or a way around being honest with you, then that's really not fair nor is it kind.

I think that many people have jealousy for various reasons, and I also think that we often confuse jealousy with envy (I know I do), but I am not sure now, that your OP was not more closely related to "how do I keep from feeling like I'm going to be dumped" than a jealousy question.

I think it's time you and your Dom had a talk.

_____________________________

afeathr

-Going where the wind blows me...

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 23

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 8:17:21 AM

acctonthelook

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline

LA one of your links brought me to read a previous post of yours. for me this is the problem and why i get jealous.

many times it's too soon or someone lied and expected me to 'just except it'. if i don't except it, i'm not allowed to move on together. seems some Dom's feel, we as subs/slaves, do not have a right to give an ultimatum, 'her or me'. you are expected to share or you lose.

i find many Dom's who are looking for their kink here and they are comfy cozy at home with their vanilla wife. those men really bother me because it's so cowardly not to say ' hey honey, i love you and your the mother of my kids, but hey you just don't cut the mustard in the bdsm arena. gotta go. ' they are too concerned with child support, visitation, oh she's a good woman (but not good enough), blah blah blah. it all comes to an end result that you are a coward for staying and misleading your vanilla wife. those Dom's i DON'T want because if he could do that to her, what's he going to do to me, long term. i'm not professing that i've been perfect, but have some guts to say it doesn't work and try to be honest with yourself and all you meet. i left my partner of 8 yrs because it didn't work, so why can't they. please the excuses don't work anymore. the coward in a Dom is just pathetic. i'm a sub and have more strength. what's wrong with that picture...?

i choose me over a Dom's requirement of me to 'just except it'. so i'm alone and at least i don't have to feel guilty, demoralized, or constantly on a back burner.

one day a Dom WILL come my way that has life experience, good moral values, honesty, and will take the time to actually build something of quality with me as his sub.

one day i will feel safe enough to actually share (in play only, not poly) because i do want him to feel pleasure, whether he is enjoying her or me. but to get to that point the D/s aspect of our relationship must be built together, alone, learning, discovering each other and not with interferance of another soul. for me it doesn't work, poly that is. i don't think i would ever be wired quite that way. it works for others but i know it's not for me.

for today and possibly tomorrow, lol i want someone for my own, at least for awhile anyway. call it selfish but for now i'm ok with that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
A specific piece of advice is that if any of you feel like you have to micromanage the others relationship, it will more than likely cause complications. You either trust eachother or you don't. If you each feel you need a battle plan for each date and scene, you just might not be ready for it. Hot chicks will always be around, better to wait until your primary relationship is really solid before treading water. While being VERY clear on limits and expectations is advised, and this comes from lots of discussion between everyone, there comes a point when it becomes pacifying your own securities rather than allowing the relationship to simply be what it is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

That's an odd way to me of looking at things. Jealousy is ultimately destructive- it shows a weakness within the structure of the relationship and within the person themselves.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_469964/mpage_1/key_jealousy/tm.htm#470560
Define Jealousy

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 24

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 10:40:16 AM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

In my opinion jealousy is not a good thing in any relationship.
The fact that I could get a 3rd and my slave would have no say so , does not mean that I will just because I can. I am more consurned for her health both mentally and physically then that.

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 25

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 11:54:11 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingKitten

I know it isn't supposed to be an issue/even be brought up

Why not?

quote:

This is my question to you though, do you not want them to be jealous so your fantasies can be fufilled without guilt, or because you don't want their emotional state to be damaged?

You can't force someone to NOT feel something that they're feeling...and, to be a healthy adult, you shouldn't ignore your feelings. I would want mine to not feel jealous simply because that would indicate that we've talked through the jealousy and now they're comfortable with the idea/relationship. But, it doesn't work that they decide they don't feel jealous and then they don't...at least for most people that I know.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 26

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 11:58:30 AM

Voltare

Posts: 841
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Santiago, Chile
Status: offline

I dislike jealousy. I also dislike paying taxes. Nothing good seems to come out of either.

Seriously, just like any other negative character trait, everyone has some degree of jealousy. It isn't really a problem in terms of existing, it's a problem when it's not controlled - just like any other emotion. I don't fault someone for feeling angry - I fault them if they act on that anger. If someone seemed to get angry easily, and often lash out as a result, I probably wouldn't stay with that person. Same goes for jealousy.

_____________________________

http://www.vv3b.com/

"There is always some madness in love, but there is always some reason in madness." - F. Nietzsche

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 27

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 12:56:32 PM

Grlwithboy

Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline

I'm with MasterFire and Voltare's opinions here --

There is going to be jealousy in my arrangement. It doesn't mean that the jealousy of one male for another's goodies (switch pronouns around however you care to) is going to influence the outcome of my behavior, it does mean that there may be serious discussion. And I accept that if the negatives outweigh the positives it's time for that person to move on. So far, the jealousy factor is a minor negative, or sometimes even a delicious source of emotional masochism (some of us are wired weird) and normally nothing that can't be smoothed over with a little more care and attention. I won't let the jealousy of those in relationships with me control me, but I *do* view it as a kind of a relational "check engine" light. It's going to happen - so just saying "I won't accept it" is a little head-in-sand I find.

In the OP's case I think what's been said about having a solid primary is gold, and I'd also suggest that you think about what exactly you are concerned about "losing out" to someone else? Is it time, attraction, the attention of ritual and discipline - and I'd recommend expressing those concerns to your D in a respectful and candid way. The only way to get your real needs (NEEDS not just wants, because if he caters to your wants you'll grow to resent it) is to know exactly what they are and be prepared to let him know what you think they are.

< Message edited by Grlwithboy -- 12/22/2006 1:05:18 PM >

(in reply to Voltare)

Post #: 28

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 1:38:47 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear LovingKitten, Ladies and Gentlemen;

In my mind's eyes I see, jealousy and or envy is wanting something that is denied, delayed, given to another but, not you (in a very general sense.)

That said, I don't like surprises myself so, I put my life's wants, needs and goals up front as well as I know it and as best as I can explain it.
I also feel it is only the correct/right thing to do, as to treat all slaves equally. So, everybody has equal portions of my time, affection and service time and wish no more slaves then I can handle.

In my mind's eyes I see, when a slave has a possessive feeling over me, it is a mental, emotional and at times physical manifestation of envy, jealousy, controlling and or manipulation. I dislike a slave to manipulate and or control me. I do know as hard as a person can, there will be envy and or jealousy--its just human nature. What is important is coming to terms with it, acknowledge it, understand it, manage it. It all comes to communication as well as understanding the whole picture before it is painted. It is the same with fear.

In my mind's eyes I see, that all slaves that approach me, must understand all slaves in my collar are not in a competition. This is not a sport, this is not a game. This is my household to which I want slaves who want to be there and share what they have with others. Rare as 'giving' spirits are--they will understand that my focus and duty to them is paramount. I only wish a peaceful and loving household, to be kind and good to others, to include each other and to me and or my guests. It doesn't mean that feelings won't be hurt once in a while but, its just the exclaimation point why there needs to be communication as well as the willingness for all, to include Dominants to be willing to admit fault and or apologize when communication fails and or broke down. Any relationship regardless of size, requires communication.

In my household, each slave had a day with me alone. There was a day when all slaves were there with me and serving. There was also a day away from slaves from me. If a slave needed time with me out of turn, the one who gave up their time was rewarded with two days alone with me. The slaves took turns with chores but, one day everybody cleaned same time. My slaves also had days away from me, as to do their own business and have a break also. It really was a schedule to where all of us could be excited about.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 29

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 2:06:41 PM

alovelylady4U

Posts: 67
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: leeli
Status: offline

i know i am seriously considering a poly House. i have read so many threads and so many different ways and ideas. And yes~ Master D is right~ each situation is unique to the I/individuals of the House. i myself hope to enter into this in the frame of mind to complete not compete.

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 30

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 2:09:28 PM

moftop61

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/5/2006
Status: offline

i can tell you what my Master would say (because He has said it)

a slave serves her Master's desires and if the Master desires another slave then the slave should, if not desire, at least support the Master in all His decisions.

m

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 31

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 2:13:43 PM

whisperedsighs

Posts: 349
Joined: 11/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingKitten

I know it isn't supposed to be an issue/even be brought up, and I am sure this subject has been debated hundreds of times before, but I felt the need to ask.

I have seen that many Dominants demand that their slaves/submissives not give into jealousy, especially when the subject of a poly lifestyle is brought up. This is my question to you though, do you not want them to be jealous so your fantasies can be fufilled without guilt, or because you don't want their emotional state to be damaged? If you have a different reason I am all ears (not much discrimination here, only those who discriminate against me for my age).

I would often think (through my years of experience) that a Dominant (male or female) would enjoy the jealousy, because it would be an assurance to the place they hold in the submissives mind/heart. It may be greed to keep the person to themselves, but in many cases its out of devotion, fear, love and/or need. I understand that most believe that jealousy is a waste of energy, but its one thta has always been difficult to overcome. (thank you katylied for bringing this insight, I forgot to bring it up).

Input?

As far as not coming up HORSE SHIT!!! Communication is the most important thing we do. We all have our emotional pitfalls and if you are not able to discuss them openly then there can be no trust.

I went to a poly discussion this past summer, where the female of a couple discussed her moments of jealousy and how it was handled in the relationship. Now this was a couple I have a great deal of respect for and appreciated the fact that she shared that there were times that she was jealous. It is something they worked on together to help her find ways to work through it. Just because someone is poly, doesn't mean that from time to time jealousy isn't an issue.

_____________________________

oh my god that was so wrong! .... again please!

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 32

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 3:17:08 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: moftop61
a slave serves her Master's desires and if the Master desires another slave then the slave should, if not desire, at least support the Master in all His decisions.

m

I agree with this IF the master made it clear that getting another slave would be a possibility before any commitments were made, if the master makes sure that he has the resources and capability to make such a choice and does not have unrealistic expectations of a relationship forming between the slaves themselves.

Unfortunately, the percentage of masters who do all of the above are a very small percentage of the masters who try and make a go at owning multiple slaves.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to moftop61)

Post #: 33

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 8:15:57 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
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well here is my simple take on it...If you went into the relationship with the possibility of poly or even play as an agreement then thus no jealousy should even be considered..after all you agreed!...If you went into monogomous relationship and the Dominant decides to then want to have a poly or play thing then you have a right to feel some dislike of the situation as it was sprung upon you..Here now is where you make a decision...either accept that he has decided to create a poly life..and accept another into you relationship or leave and find a Dominant with some ethics,that stands by his word, as to what had been agreed upon in initial negotiations........Tempting

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 34

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/22/2006 9:49:41 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

well here is my simple take on it...If you went into the relationship with the possibility of poly or even play as an agreement then thus no jealousy should even be considered..after all you agreed!...If you went into monogomous relationship and the Dominant decides to then want to have a poly or play thing then you have a right to feel some dislike of the situation as it was sprung upon you..Here now is where you make a decision...either accept that he has decided to create a poly life..and accept another into you relationship or leave and find a Dominant with some ethics,that stands by his word, as to what had been agreed upon in initial negotiations........Tempting

Are you trying to say that a person doesn't have a "right" to have certain feelings?

How does that follow exactly?

For example, I worked from the time I was 12 years old to get a full scholarship to college. I loved college, I flourished in college. It was completely right for me and I knew it from start to finish.

That doesn't mean there weren't times I struggled, times I hated it, times I felt completely NOT right with it.

SHould someone have told me I had no right to those feelings because I had agreed to that commitment and wanted it for myself?

Feelings are what they are. Telling someone they have no right to feel what they feel is completely unrealistic and not at all helpful. You can help them see new perspectives, and process their feelings in a different way, but to suggest they shouldn't even be having them to begin with does nothing for the situation and IMO is pretty unrealistic.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

Post #: 35

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/23/2006 6:14:49 AM

LovingKitten

Posts: 29
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline

I thankee all for your insight (yes I have read thoroughly through each one) and I have realized that the common feeling here is that jealousy only wreaks havoc on a relationship. I definitaly agree, thus I wanted to bring it up in discussion. One thing I have noticed with a common thread is that people acknowledge that jealousy is something that is very hard to prevent, though when it comes around, it usually can be handled in a very benefical way.
I agree.
To those who own a poly household, I have another question.

Is there a bit of competition between your submissives/slaves? If so what kind and what for exactly?

_____________________________

The art of submission lies not only in serving, but serving with grace.

Collared to LigatioAmor

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 36

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/23/2006 10:43:08 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LovingKitten
I thankee all for your insight (yes I have read thoroughly through each one) and I have realized that the common feeling here is that jealousy only wreaks havoc on a relationship.

No, that's not what we're saying at all.

Most of us are saying that jealousy is completely natural and almost to be expected.

We are saying that allowing jealousy to FESTER and not deal with it appropriately is what will wreak havoc.

quote:

Is there a bit of competition between your submissives/slaves? If so what kind and what for exactly?

No, I don't temper that and quash it if I see any even beginning to build.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 37

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/23/2006 10:56:04 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemptingNviceSub

well here is my simple take on it...If you went into the relationship with the possibility of poly or even play as an agreement then thus no jealousy should even be considered..after all you agreed!...If you went into monogomous relationship and the Dominant decides to then want to have a poly or play thing then you have a right to feel some dislike of the situation as it was sprung upon you..Here now is where you make a decision...either accept that he has decided to create a poly life..and accept another into you relationship or leave and find a Dominant with some ethics,that stands by his word, as to what had been agreed upon in initial negotiations........Tempting

Are you trying to say that a person doesn't have a "right" to have certain feelings?

How does that follow exactly?

For example, I worked from the time I was 12 years old to get a full scholarship to college. I loved college, I flourished in college. It was completely right for me and I knew it from start to finish.

That doesn't mean there weren't times I struggled, times I hated it, times I felt completely NOT right with it.

SHould someone have told me I had no right to those feelings because I had agreed to that commitment and wanted it for myself?

Feelings are what they are. Telling someone they have no right to feel what they feel is completely unrealistic and not at all helpful. You can help them see new perspectives, and process their feelings in a different way, but to suggest they shouldn't even be having them to begin with does nothing for the situation and IMO is pretty unrealistic.

I am glad you explained this. I went into my relationship fully knowing I should not expect to be his only slave. I went into it fully expecting I would be okay with that. Reality hits you in the face, however, and the first time it came up I did not handle it well at all, and then I beat the crap out of myself for not walking my talk. Often times we want so much to be okay with something that we convince ourselves we are...only to be blindsided to learn that we're not.

It has since taken a lot of work on both our parts to bring me to a point where knowing he is with someone else doesn't tie my stomach in knots. I had to become secure enough with myself and within our relationship to get to that point. But I also had to understand what I was feeling and why - - not stuff those feelings away unattended to. This resulted in a lot of constructive dialogue between he and I, and that's always a good thing.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 38

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/23/2006 4:10:58 PM

jthorne

Posts: 99
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline

Again, some people are wired for poly and some aren't. It's not a question of "being jealous" when your lover is indeed capable of giving you everything you need, but also doing the same for others. Or when you are the one who can be everything to more than one person. When you accept this, and you're fulfilled, where's the jealousy? No place for it. If you feel it, it is time to talk with everyone you're directly involved with, and fix what's wrong. I point out to people that I am poly and probably always will be, right off the bat before anything gets going. I couldn't handle being on the other end of that, thinking you've got someone all to yourself and WHOOPS hey they're poly, so I wouldn't do it to anyone. Anyone who can't handle poly...well, they and I are not suited for a romantic match. Better off as friends. If you seek only the truly poly people, jealousy will be at a minimum. I dare not say completely gone, as jealousy is human, but the relationships that WORK (believe me, there are many that don't) don't tend to have real jealousy problems.

It's not Happy Heinlein Time by any means *snicker* but you can learn to tune out the little green monster and focus intead on compersion, because that's so much more fun.

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 39

RE: Jealousy in a Submissive - 12/23/2006 4:25:06 PM

LadyHugs

Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Dear LovingKitten, Ladies and Gentlemen;

You asked further down in your thread if any of my slaves had a bit of competition between them.

In my personal household experiences--yes. Mostly, it was a competition between themselves in out doing each other's creations food wise. It wasn't mean spirited but, they just liked out doing each other. No different when the lads went to the driveway and shot baskets with a basketball.

As far as a competition over me--I make great efforts as not to have that absent from my household by giving each slave equal time and attention. There was no Alpha per se. Each lad took turns at being Head Boy/First Slave/Alpha; which nobody was in charge all the time. For specific functions, the best qualified slave was in charge, the other lads supported him as he shouldered his responsibilities.

I also want my slaves to come to me directly with anything that bothers them. I find nipping the issue in the bud, before it festers the best for me. I also make sure, up front in negotiations, that a position with me is not a competition or some sort of game, to where the winner has all my attention and praises. I rather have it more of a 'family' atmosphere rather than being some coach of a ball team.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to LovingKitten)

Post #: 40

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