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no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 8:43:32 AM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		Hello, this is my first time here.
I am fortunate enough (as I realise from reading a few online forums here and there) to have a beautiful young wife who has wholeheartedly embraced the female domination lifestyle. This is rather new to us, and has come about, not because either of us had secret desires we've just let out, but simply because our marriage has evolved into it. We were both quite dominant people originally, which led to a lot of rows, and in order to co-exist peacefully I decided to submit more often. As time went by, I found submission to be more exciting than I ever thought it would be (never having had any previous interest in BDSM), and we began reading some literature (Elise Sutton's website/book, and a few others). To cut a long story short, my wife loves her position as head of the household, and I (sort of) love my position as her servant.

HOWEVER, there is very little sexual element to our play. My wife is VERY fond of her riding crop, and uses it constantly to enforce her rule. She absolutely loves whipping me, and it excites her tremendously. This excites me sexually (although it hurts a lot) but it never develops into any sexual activity between us. It usually just ends in me being denied orgasm. Occcasionally, if I've been very good, she will masturbate me to orgasm, but that's about it. Most of the time, I'm very sexually frustrated. "But that's the point!" I hear you all cry:-) Yes, I kind of get that, but it doesn't make it more fun, if you see what I mean. I feel like I'm just playing along, I don't feel like I'm really being submissive. It just feels like I'm being bullied, or in an abusive relationship (although it isn't that: we do love each other!) What I actually would like is to be broken down into a true submissive. This is hard to explain, so please bear with me: but basically, all I seem to be getting at the moment is violence. And I don't really like it that much, despite the erections it gives me, and despite how much it pleases me to please my wife. However, I would quite happily endure the punishments if there was more of a sexual element. I absolutely love my wife, and could never contemplate seeking sexual gratification with anyone else. I would even be happier if she allowed me to orally service her more often, but this happens infrequently. A couple of times, she has inserted a butt plug into me, which I found really increased my submission tenfold. I feel that this would be a useful way forward, despite the discomfort, and would dearly love for her to take me with a strap-on. This, I feel, would both make me submissive for real, and satisfy my sexual needs. Unfortunately, she absolutely refuses to do this, on the grounds that it is too "gay". She feels (fears?) that anal play will turn me gay. I've tried to explain to her that, at 46 years of age (she's 29), if I'm not gay by now it's unlikely I ever will be:-), but this has failed to convince her, and of course, any opinion I offer that contradicts her own, no matter how respectfully submitted, just earns me another beating.

I'm aware of "topping from below", and have no desire to do this, principally because I'd prefer it if my wife does what SHE wants, rather than doing what I want her to do. ("But that's just what she IS doing!" I hear you cry again). Well, yes. That's true, and it's also true that she should find her own path and not do the things she doesn't want. But do you see my dilemma? I know in my heart that more anal play, especially strap-on play, would increase my submission, which, as an end result, is something she really wants. But she doesn't want to take that particular path, even though she wants to reach that destination. Any attempt by me to convince her of this is seen as an attempt at "topping".

The bottom line (er, no pun intended), is that I feel this lifestyle should be fun for BOTH of us. Neither of us should really be dissatisfied with it. Of course, by it's very nature, there are some things that are enforced, but this enforcing is usually about delayed gratification: I understand that. But I don't seem to be getting quite what I'd like out of it. I loved my wife before, and I love her even more now she's becoming the woman she was meant to be. I guess I'd like our play to be part of our love-making, rather than replacing it entirely, which is what seems to have happened. Am I wrong to want to enjoy this lifestyle? Is my position as her submissive not meant to be fun for me too? Or do I just need a paradigm shift?

I'm sorry if this sounds like confused rambling. It's just we don't know how to get to a place we both want to go.

We haven't tried bondage, or chastity devices, or anything really other than the whip, and occasionally the butt plug. Perhaps there's other methods people could suggest we try? Any advice from more experienced people would be gratefully appreciated.

Many thanks in advance, and my apologies for such a lengthy post.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 8:47:58 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I am curious, is there now no sex or just no sex that is mixed with play?

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to devoT)
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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:02:10 AM   
MsCece2u


Posts: 85
Joined: 9/10/2005
From: DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I am curious, is there now no sex or just no sex that is mixed with play?


Thank you for asking that question.  I am confused also.  I need to have that part better explained.

_____________________________

Ms Cece
Tis better to let people think that you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:02:18 AM   
minnette


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		devoT...I completely understand your dilema.  Although I can not relate to a male sub, for I am a female slave, I can relate to your problem.  I have had the same issues at one time.  It took a lot of talking to get Master to see the sexual part of it.  I had to put things in a different perspective for him because he only saw the basics.."Okay, she's on her hands and knees like a dog...so what".  Now he sees..."Okay, she's on her hands and knees like a dog...imagine all the things I can do with her ass in the air like that!"  Just a small example.  I also beg Master if I want to particular activity.  It is up to him to say yes or no and I have to accept his answer. 

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:05:04 AM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		Well, I wouldn't say no sex entirely, it just happens very, very infrequently. A year or so ago, before we got into this, we used to be at it like rabbits. Now, my wife says penetration hurts her (without bragging, I am slightly bigger than average, but this was never a problem before). But she now seems to prefer masturbating me to having sex, and that's only about once every 2 weeks, whereas before we were having sex regularly 2 or 3 times a week. We last had vaginal penetration about 4 months ago.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:07:42 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		Maybe if you stop verbalizing your disappointment over not getting enough sexual attention and focus more on pleasing her she'll relax and incorporate more sex once she's not feeling pressured to do so.
Draw her hot bubble baths, clean the house real well, give her a nice massage with some scented oil or something pampering like that.
Servicing her in nonsexual ways may relax her enough she starts wanting intimacy from you & will help you to feel more submissive to her.
Begging or whining is not a very good method to get someone's juices flowing if anything it's just going to repel her more.

Maybe go talk to a sex therapist or try counseling to get beyond this issue.
There are BDSM councilors that would be perfect for this sort of thing.

Good luck to you & I hope things work out for you two.

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:08:07 AM   
minnette


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		It sounds like you have sexual element, just not intercourse.  Maybe you two should try to find out why it hurts her to have intercourse.  It didn't hurt before, right?  If you start with the root of the problem, maybe you can overcome it or solve it or work around it.

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:10:09 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoT

Well, I wouldn't say no sex entirely, it just happens very, very infrequently. A year or so ago, before we got into this, we used to be at it like rabbits. Now, my wife says penetration hurts her (without bragging, I am slightly bigger than average, but this was never a problem before). But she now seems to prefer masturbating me to having sex, and that's only about once every 2 weeks, whereas before we were having sex regularly 2 or 3 times a week. We last had vaginal penetration about 4 months ago.


Okay, keep in mind I am a verrrrrrrrrryyyyyyyyy cynical person but my gut instinct is telling me there is probably something else going on that is affecting this situation. I am not stupid enough to toss a few guesses out there BUT were it me, I would be doing some snooping around in a behind the scenes sorta way. Just knowing human nature and all. Nothing wrong with a little CYA.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:11:10 AM   
minnette


Posts: 7
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		OneStandingStill gives very good advice.  I was not referring to begging and whining.  It is just a ritual to ask for something I am wanting.  And I don't do it very often or it would diminish the purpose.  Pleasing your mistress comes first above all.  That is your only need and desire. 

(in reply to minnette)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:18:50 AM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		OK, trust me, I VERY quickly learned to stop verbalizing any disappointment I felt!:-) It only earned me a savage beating. I already do all the other things you mentioned. So that's not it.

And I think what LaTigresse is perhaps getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that she may have another lover? I doubt this very much. For one thing, we don't really spend too much time apart (we both work from home), so there wouldn't be much opportunity. Second, she works in the fashion industry, where most of the people she meets are other women, and 90% of the guys she meets are gay. And no, she's never shown any lesbian tendencies herself. Third, we've only actually been married about 18 months, although we've been seeing each other about 3 years. It's kind of a bit early in the marriage to be bored with it I think... I know some marriages don't last long, and it's not a total impossibility, but it does seem kinda unlikely.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 9:38:11 AM   
draba


Posts: 81
Joined: 2/22/2006
Status: offline 		 
Maybe you need to be a good romantic husband one night. My wife dommes me but prefers to have romantic sex. She likes it when I take charge and am aggresive in bed. This is why I only rarely see my Mistress side of my wife.

(in reply to devoT)
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Consistent, Easy, and Honest Communication - 12/27/2006 9:47:05 AM   
LadyBeckett


Posts: 865
Joined: 2/4/2004
From: Scotland/Tennessee
Status: offline 		Good thread!  One of the things mentioned here, devoT, is your endowment.  The vagina is moist and elastic, and when healthy will gradually stretch easily to accomodate a boy of longer/thicker endowment.  It is your responsibility to be gentle, take it easy, and perhaps not attempt to fully penetrate until it can be accomplished easily.  It is also very important that a boy make absolutely certain that his partner is ready (very moist), and that her pleasure is his priority.  Until his partner is able to receive his endowment comfortably and with pleasure, his pleasure/release would not be a consideration.    This could involve several sessions, so patience is paramount. 
 
In regard to how you wish to see the relationship evolve...communicate with her honestly and openly about this.  It isn't disrepectful to her, or the relationship for you to express what you would like.  It is the i want and/or the when do i get? that is disrespectful and most likely not received well. 

_____________________________

Lady Beckett

_______________________________________________

"Submissive boys yearn to fall into their proper place, so the rest of their life will." ~ Lady Beckett

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 10:06:49 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoT

Well, I wouldn't say no sex entirely, it just happens very, very infrequently. A year or so ago, before we got into this, we used to be at it like rabbits. Now, my wife says penetration hurts her (without bragging, I am slightly bigger than average, but this was never a problem before). But she now seems to prefer masturbating me to having sex, and that's only about once every 2 weeks, whereas before we were having sex regularly 2 or 3 times a week. We last had vaginal penetration about 4 months ago.


Some people's sex drive changes after marriage. Perhaps she discovered this was more sexuality exciting and fulfilling to her. Maybe she had sex before because it was "expected" (not from you necessarily but from the idea of what a vanilla marriage was about) and now she feels more free to say "no".

Honestly you won't know until you both get out of scene space and have some serious discussions. You may want to consider a counselor or therapist to help you talk in a way that is less threatening and more focused on positives for each person.

I think you completely correct though. It is suppose to be a great thing for you both. If a need isn't getting met that is a problem. You may not know what are needs and what are desires though until you really sort through things.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 10:18:14 AM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		Draba, very interesting idea, and definitely one worth discussing with my wife. One thing we're both clear on, is that she doesn't want a pet, she wants a tamed beast, if you see the difference. More like a warrior queen riding her battle charger, as opposed to a pampared princess with a lapdog. One of the things that first attracted her to me was my strength of character and dominant, self-confident nature, traits I am allowed to express when we're out in public, or not playing. She definately doesn't want to lose this side of me (and quite frankly, neither do I LOL).

While submitting to my wife in a sexual way, and allowing her to be the penetrator, and me being penetrated, is definitely something that floats my boat, given my wife's antipathy towards it, you may have hit the nail on the head. Perhaps that level of submission on my part is just simply turning her off, perhaps it's just a bit too much too soon. We're still new to this, and I guess we're still finding the balance that's right for us. Perhaps she fears turning me into a pathetic, whimpering sissy (nothing wrong with that, just not for us LOL).

LadyBeckett, as I said above, I wouldn't DARE use the 'I want' or 'When do I get' approaches: I know just what I WOULD get:-) I tell you, this particular warrior queen could single-handedly repel an enemy invasion!

(in reply to thetammyjo)
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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 10:30:10 AM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline 		Devo... THIS is why I say that one can be too young (mentally and experience-wise) to practice D/s BDSM.
 
She sounds as if she knows only the character of a dominatrix.  There is a heart, mind and compassion that needs to go along with it.  It almost sounds as if she is taking her internal anger out on you.  Downright dispassionate cruelty has no place in this.  A Domme CARES for her property.  (this is my opinion.. and probably why I've remained married so long as well have a slave for 10 years- but "what do I know" - PLENTY )
 
I'll even address the elephant in the living room... there is quite an age difference.  You have gotten yourself a "young thing" (by comparison) and are in fear of failing her and looking foolish.
 
Sit her down.. eyeball to eyeball.. and tell her what you have told us here.  You have nothing to loose other than a bad situation (because it would improve) OR loosing an abusive spouse.

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.


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RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 11:50:44 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoT

OK, trust me, I VERY quickly learned to stop verbalizing any disappointment I felt!:-) It only earned me a savage beating. I already do all the other things you mentioned. So that's not it.

And I think what LaTigresse is perhaps getting at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that she may have another lover? I doubt this very much. For one thing, we don't really spend too much time apart (we both work from home), so there wouldn't be much opportunity. Second, she works in the fashion industry, where most of the people she meets are other women, and 90% of the guys she meets are gay. And no, she's never shown any lesbian tendencies herself. Third, we've only actually been married about 18 months, although we've been seeing each other about 3 years. It's kind of a bit early in the marriage to be bored with it I think... I know some marriages don't last long, and it's not a total impossibility, but it does seem kinda unlikely.


Actually that is only a fraction of what I was suggesting. Obviously I have no clue as to the daily dynamics of the relationship or the people involved so it would be presumptuous to assume anything. The big picture is that there could be a hundred different reasons her interest in sex has changed. I was just suggesting that from your words it is a rather slippery slope to question her about it therefore some care needs to be taken.

I think Lotus has said it best. The two of you went into this relationship based upon mutual compatibility and getting individual needs met. It sounds to me like that has changed. Her needs seem to have changed yet you don't appear to have a clue why. It reads as though she does not like to be questioned about it at all but rather prefers to punish you harshly for it. I don't see that as being a relationship based upon mutual compatibility and both parties needs being met.....NOW.

I think you need to find out the particulars of her change but since you have suggested that talking to her has not been sucessful you are at a bit of an impasse. That was part of my thinking in my initial response. It doesn't sound like you really enjoy the beatings, you are not getting any sexual gratification. So, what is in it for you to continue on as it is? Sooner or later you are going to get sick of the situation and then what?

Personally if I felt my sub/slave could not approach me about such an important issue I would feel it was MY failing.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 12:04:25 PM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		LotusSong,

Yes, she's quite a bit younger than me. I normally wouldn't have considered someone as young as her as a life partner, but we found we had so much in common that we considered each other as soulmates, so that was that. Besides, when it comes to this femdom lifestyle, we have as much experience as each other.

As an attractive woman, she was used to being firmly in control over all her previous boyfriends. If I'm allowed to blow my own trumpet (no pun intended. Again), I too have been told I'm what women consider "a good catch". Part of the attraction she had for me was precisely the age difference: I was more grown up, wiser, she could look up to me. It's true to say that at the very beginning of our relationship, SHE was the submissive and I was the dominant. But as our relationship progressed, and her confidence grew, her natural dominance began asserting itself, and this clashed with mine. Conflict happened, and it made us unhappy. Since my decision to defer to her, she has grown considerably, and now she prefers having her way 24/7. She enjoys being in charge, and I enjoy her being in charge. In all other respects we couldn't be happier. We have a lot of fun in all other areas of our life together. She does care for me. She does love me. She doesn't beat me out of anger, or resentment, or repressed issues, but simply because she enjoys it. It's just the sexual side of it seems to have taken a dive. I don't regard her as an abusive wife, I just said that, with just all violence and no (or very little) sex, our relationship feels like an abusive one, but only in that respect. In all other areas, we get on just great, we enjoy life together, and enjoy each other's company. In all other areas, we're blissfully happy.

I don't fear failing her, or looking foolish, or demeaning myself for her sake. At times, I will deliberately err, just so I can get a whipping, as it's practically the only "sexual" attention I get from her these days.

I also don't lack the confidence to know that I could get another woman if I wanted, no problem. But I don't want another woman. I want my wife. And I want our life together to be fulfilling for both of us.

We have talked about this, but her reaction is usually to prematurely end the discussion with another beating. Hence my posting here, in an effort to get some advice as to how to move beyond this point. While I haven't really got the advice I was hoping for yet, I do think Draba's post came close. It switched on a light bulb, anyway. Perhaps, just coz we're new to this, we've tried rushing too far ahead too soon. Perhaps, because of her youth and general life experience being slightly less than mine, I'm pushing her too far without realising it. Perhaps I just need to give her more time to get used to this idea of being more in charge than she's ever been before. Perhaps strap-on sex will come with time, and I just have to be more patient. Perhaps, as her dominance and my submission grow, she will naturally gravitate towards this method of sex, whether I want it or not.

If I'm really honest with myself, I don't actually mind if I don't insert my penis in her body again, if that's what she prefers. When she masturbates me, it's fantastic, and I love it. I absolutely adore giving her an orgasm (she ejaculates, so it's a sight worth seeing), and always will, so I don't even mind if I'm not allowed orgasms myself very often. I have always put her pleasure first. It's just that I can't deal with nothing, or next-to-nothing for myself. I have to have some stimulation that leads to some sort of gratification, and either orally servicing her, or anal stimulation for me, or both, would be something I could quite happily live with. I'd even be prepared to wear a chastity device, as long as I was getting some sort of alternative sexual stimulation to penis manipulation. But all I get is more beating.

(in reply to LotusSong)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 12:19:24 PM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		LaTigresse,

we crossed posts. Thanks for coming back. I hope some of the things I said in my reply to LotusSong painted a slightly clearer picture. I realise that without knowing our entire life stories, it's had to make a true judgement, but I do value all input nevertheless.

You're absolutely right. Something has changed, and I need to find out what, and the only person who can tell me that is my wife. We do need to get beyond the beating to properly communicate. I don't know how to though.

What's in it for me? I love her. I'll do just what she wants. If this is what she wants, and I'm destined not to get my wants fulfilled, then maybe I should just put up and shut up? But at least I'll try first to see if there's any hope of my sexual fulfilment.

I think I'll try being even more submissive. It's the only option available to me really isn't it:-)? After all, my submission is not a bargaining tool: "I'll be really really submissive for you, if you'll fuck my ass with a strap-on...". That's clearly NOT the route to take, LOL.

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 12:42:46 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: devoT

LaTigresse,

we crossed posts. Thanks for coming back. I hope some of the things I said in my reply to LotusSong painted a slightly clearer picture. I realise that without knowing our entire life stories, it's had to make a true judgement, but I do value all input nevertheless.

You're absolutely right. Something has changed, and I need to find out what, and the only person who can tell me that is my wife. We do need to get beyond the beating to properly communicate. I don't know how to though.

What's in it for me? I love her. I'll do just what she wants. If this is what she wants, and I'm destined not to get my wants fulfilled, then maybe I should just put up and shut up? But at least I'll try first to see if there's any hope of my sexual fulfilment.

I think I'll try being even more submissive. It's the only option available to me really isn't it:-)? After all, my submission is not a bargaining tool: "I'll be really really submissive for you, if you'll fuck my ass with a strap-on...". That's clearly NOT the route to take, LOL.


I think just letting things go is a certain way to ensure that things get worse.

You need to stop the scening and have a husband and wife talk. It may take several talks. It may take a professional to be your guide.

Refusing to talk about it, whether that is you or her, would be a clear sign to me that your problems go much deeper than sex and scening at the same time.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to devoT)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: no sexual element? - 12/27/2006 12:48:26 PM   
devoT


Posts: 41
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		thetammyjo,

yes, you're right too. OK, I'll raise the issue. I'll try and let you know what happens.

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 20
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