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Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:27:54 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		For some reason I've been thinking about this lately. When I was first exposed to bdsm a few years ago, it really seemed to "fit" for me. I felt very at peace I found out about this option, and that the bdsm world exists, in general.

And - I thought that this (D/s) was the way "things" were supposed to be between hetero, straight males and females anyway (from a biological standpoint and from an emotionally fulfilling standpoint, too, really, even though that must sound terribly "unprogressive" of me)...

But - there was this teensy part of me that suspected maybe I was simply learning about something new, and it was a "phase" (though I certainly had never had a "phase" related to much of anything sexual or deeply relationally oriented, like this before) - and that it might "pass".

I thought maybe I was just interested and fascinated because  D/s orientation seemed "intriguingly different".

Well - that hasn't happened. And - I've since concluded I was just born this way, and being submissive is really and truly where I "fit" and what makes me happiest.  

And when I joined this site, I realized there were a lot of Dommes and male submissives, too - and I realized truly there are other people who are find the opposite side of the coin just as fulfilling (and more power to them, too).

I know this might be a cliche' topic, but - I can remember my mother saying I was this really placid baby and toddler. I apparently just wanted to make people smile, and would give my toys to other kids who were crying, for example, and try to make them smile. I did what my mom said, too (or tried to), almost all of the time. And if somebody took my toy, or something, I'd cry a little, but not scream or raise a big fuss, really. I wasn't always an angel, of course, but mostly pretty "laid back." 

So - maybe I've always been submissive - from my earliest days... 

But, my middle sister, my mother said, was just a "screamer". She was apparently  pretty aggressive with other children, and always seemed to get her way. If someone took her toy, she not only screamed loudly, but would smack them. She wasn't deliberately nasty, just pretty aggressive. Apparently from birth. She is a nice person (really), but really, she is still much like that today, from a personality standpoint (although she doesn't hit people, she is very "assertive" - and quite a successful defense attorney). If she were "into" bdsm, I am pretty sure she'd be a Domme.

***question: So anyway, do you think you were born like this, or just somehow fell into learning about it, and just "adapted" to it, and like doing it and relating this way - but it isn't a "core" part of you that you were born with?

Thanks for any replies.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/27/2006 1:48:09 PM >

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson
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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:33:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		My standard answer- orientations are innate while expressions of orientations are learned and shaped

http://www.collarchat.com/m_691960/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#691984
naturally Ds?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499963/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#499979
Nature or nurture?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_307130/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#307130
Do you feel being a dom/me is innate or can be learned?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_461558/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#461558
hard-wired, why why why!

http://www.collarchat.com/m_143698/mpage_1/key_born%252Craised/tm.htm#143698
nature versus nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_468650/mpage_1/key_nature%252Cnurture/tm.htm#468650
nature vs nurture

http://www.collarchat.com/m_35901/mpage_1/key_learned%252Cborn/tm.htm#35901
born or learned, how we become dom?


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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:34:01 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

***So anyway, so you think you were born like this, or just fell into learning about it, and just "adapted" to it, and like doing it and relating this way - but it isn't a "core" part of you that you were born with?


Master and I were actually talking about this recently. He said something to me along the lines of 'you were born to be a slave', which I found to be quite contradictory to my own thinking. When I met my first Master, I was as vanilla as they came; through the years with him I found that I enjoyed the exchange of power to the point that I knew that it was something I would want in future relationships.

I don't think I was born this way; yet Master says I was. LOL.

Interesting debate he and I have had over this.

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Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:35:47 PM   
shadevarr


Posts: 360
Joined: 7/2/2006
Status: offline 		Elements of this life had always appealed to me from a young age but it wasn't until I was much older that I had all the pieces together and figured out that this is not something new, it is who I have been my whole life just finally being expressed instead of repressed.

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:38:33 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		LA: Thanks for the reply - that males sense to me. Also the references you so kindly provided.

Kalira: I agree it's an interesting question I guess everyone answers for themselves. I like to hear other people's opinions on the topic. Thanks for yours.

shadevarr: Thanks for the reply. Yes, I can remember having submissive fantasies from about the age of 9 or 10 years.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/27/2006 1:41:07 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:38:56 PM   
DiamondOrchid


Posts: 172
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline 		In my case, I'm fairly certain I was born this way. I wasn't introduced to bdsm... I didn't even know that such existed when I was becoming sexually active. All I knew was that what 'got me off' were activities that my partner at the time found to be too rough and... odd. I did some searching & reading, and viola! I found some sites with explanations that seemed to fit my desires/needs, all under the umbrella of bdsm (although I'm more on the sadistic side of things).
 
D.

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:40:47 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		DiamondOrchid: That's interesting. I am glad you "found a home", so to speak.

- Susan 

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:45:12 PM   
canupleaseme


Posts: 775
Joined: 7/9/2006
Status: offline 		I cant say that i was born to be this way but my life has certainly shaped me i think and i feel at my most comfortable in life when i'm in this kind of relationship so maybe i was born to be this way who knows!!!


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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:47:40 PM   
DiamondOrchid


Posts: 172
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

DiamondOrchid: That's interesting. I am glad you "found a home", so to speak.

- Susan 

lol.. Thanks Susan! I'm glad too...  ... all I need now is more time for a relationship and enough inclination to start one .
 
D.

_____________________________

Relationships are like full time jobs and should be treated as such. If your boy/girlfriend wants to leave, they should give you two weeks' notice and severance pay. Also they should have to find you a temp.

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:48:29 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		thanks for the reply, canupleaseme.

DiamondOrchid: Good luck!

- Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/27/2006 1:52:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:49:32 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I think most of who we are as people are developed in the human brain from birth to four years old. There's a short growing spurt again in puberty for about 3-4 years.
These times are when the brain forms most of your identity, habits, and preferences.
I agree a large part of our personalities were in place before we had names or outlets for them.
I did not discover anything sexy beyond vanilla hot sex & exhibitionism till I was 40.
Since then most things in my earlier life are valuable lessons and tools I use to help me be the best/most comfortable sub I can be.
I think either you're wired that way or not, but someone has to take your blinders off before you can see the way.
suzanne

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:51:03 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		I have always been a rabid advocate of "nature" in the "nature vs. nurture" debate.  And I am unaware of any logical argument to the contrary.
 
It's the same argument once engaged in regarding sexual orientation.  And settled (soundly) by science.
 
John

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 1:54:55 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		onestandingstill: Great reply. I think that may be exactly the conclusion I've reached as well. 

Rover: I tend to very much agree with you.

CM and all of the reading material here (and LA being willing to provide threads form the past, too), has "taken the blinders off" for me in many areas unrelated to submission, too. I've learned about male submissives and Dommes, for instance (I didn't now much about them before), and that many expressions of "kink" exist beyond what I'd known even existed before.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/27/2006 1:57:17 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:02:48 PM   
Grlwithboy


Posts: 655
Joined: 2/8/2005
Status: offline 		I definitely wasn't the pack leader in my early days, but I definitely wasn't a follower either.  My work ethic is: starvation before another stupid boss. I definitely think that my orientation was influenced by my mother/grandmother dynamic, oddly enough.

But I remember things that don't seem too far off from an early age, and programming seems like a possibility.

I don't buy the idea that all the social alphas are "natural Doms" and no "natural Dom" could gravitate to a service industry job - the things we do in private and public life aren't mirrors, happily.

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:03:21 PM   
NaiveTempest


Posts: 345
Joined: 11/20/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Good question. Was this something I was born into or did outside influences as I grew up influence me to be this way? I don't think there is any real way to answer such a question. You are now aware of a desire/ instinct in you that you did not know about/acknowledge before. I think all anyone can really do is accept their new knowledge/understanding of who they are and not dig for a reason why; at least not too deeply. It almost smacks of the "born gay or not" debate I often here.

(Sorry if mentioning that might offend anyone).

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:07:00 PM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline 		that's funny, Master and I were discussing the same things ourselves yesterday, whether my own submissive nature is innate, and how my tendencies were and were not influenced by my upbringing.  I got a laugh too out of having the notion of "things" being this way (D/s) between hetero men and women ("progressive" or not).  I know exactly what you mean, Susan...imagine my surprise when I found out it wasn't!  talk about a huge let down...

anyway, my own actions and experiences are tied into a greater need to serve, beyond D/s...I feel we are all endowed with certain gifts from our Maker, and that my particular gift is to serve others, out of the realm of D/s and beyond my Master, in my local community, ie doing charitable work.  that is something I've always known about myself, even at a very young age, and it has also been the source of tremendous satisfaction in my life.

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:10:49 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		Grlwithboy: My mom and grandmother were both aggressive, independent women - and that role model did help me in the work world I know (when I was there, which I haven't been for a few years) - while there, I just worked my butt off, and I have an enterpenueristic bent, too (even though I did end up working for other people most of my life, I had a small free-lance consulting business at one time).

Because I can appreciate the possibility of being my own boss when it comes to making a living. But for me, there were years I had to make sure I had health insurance that was affordable, etc., so worked for "the man" (corporations) instead.

NaiveTempest: Thanks for the reply. I know, it is a lot like the gay - nature or nurture question (is the same question, really, just a different orientation, kinda). I know there is no way to know the real answer.

lighthearted: I appreciate your reply very much. Thanks.

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 12/27/2006 2:30:09 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:14:33 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline 		I did my dissertation on "Genetics and Free Will".  While I was hoping to support the idea of free will when I started, my work with the Human Genome Project and review of the work done by the Minnesota Twins Seperated at Birth studies (and others like it) shattered all hope in me that we are really able to make choices more important than what we have for breakfast.  Everything else is "programmed" in; our likes, dislikes, the types of people we choose, etc.

The only exception seems to be trauma....then all bets are off.

Ok.....so now I can just say I am born this way!

Sunshine


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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:15:44 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

***question: So anyway, do you think you were born like this, or just somehow fell into learning about it, and just "adapted" to it, and like doing it and relating this way - but it isn't a "core" part of you that you were born with?


I think that it depends on the individual. I think some people are innately like this, I think some people become fascinated with it later in life, I think that some people switch and explore because they have no specific orientation. I think that all possible combinations exist out there.

As for me, I think it is innate.

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Do You Think You Were "Born This Way" ? - 12/27/2006 2:19:43 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		My sisters are also submissive, as are most of my female cousins, as is a brother in many ways. I am convinced to some degree this is genetic, as my cousins and my siblings were raised quite differently.  I believe I was born as a submissive individual, and my upbringing helped to develop that.  Then my Master came into my life and refined it.

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