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Devilslilsister -> Age (12/28/2006 4:59:13 PM)
I know there are alot of posts on age, i'm not here to debate age or age related criteria or what age is okay and ect. i'm writing to make an observation and hopefully i'll have a point with a question. i was just invited into a group that is for 35 and under with partners 35 and under. 3 or 4 years ago, i might of thought nothing of it, but rather celebrated my youth. Something along the lines of "YES! i am young" and "those darn old foggies and all their darn thoughts" Er, but i'm getting older. Granted i'm only 27 - but i am not far off from 35. Alot closer then i've ever been! ::sigh:: and i will only get closer. What happens when all these in the "under X age" gets to that age? Are you mandatory kicked out when you hit 35? When the whole "group" matures - do they change the requirements for the group? Does it suddenly become "under 55"? What if the Founder of the group turns 55 and everyone else is 35? Does the group need a new founder? These are all of course, my musings. I dont expect an actual answer because i know the answer to these questions arent here. They are more rhetorical. As i am starting to feel old foggyish, i'm starting to see more wisdom in the older generation. As my father told me the other night "as children get smarter, their parents get smarter" Isnt that the truth! Why must there be a seperation of age? Whats up with the exclusive mentality? I'm either getting old and i have forgotten whats the whole point of being exclusive when it comes to this. Or i've had a bad cold for the past few days and my brain isnt in the mood to think properly. You know, i just dont see groups that are "35 and older" but then maybe i havent been invited to any since i'm not 35 and older. Seems to me there are fewer of the "only older" then the "only younger" as the older are most likely wiser then the younger and realise that a group that mixes all ages is intelligent. The whole thing just seems dumb to me and illogical. Which it just might be and if it is, then i'll sleep better. If it isnt, then i'd like my thinking clarified please - )

hisannabelle -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 5:04:12 PM)
i ran into some ageism originally when contacting the local group here, as most of the members are in their thirties or older (i think i'm the youngest by far, very few in their twenties). i think that 35 and under groups exist to combat the prevalence of groups that only have older members, and the atmosphere that can be created by that. that said, i don't think that 35 and under groups, or that age-specific groups in general (other than what is legal), are a good idea. for example, if there were a 35 and under local group, that'd be awesome, as i'm 19. however, if it were only for people whose partners were 35 and under, that would suck, as my dominant is 54. likewise, when i was originally excluded from the local group, one of my biggest bitches was the fact that he would have been able to attend but i would not. to me, it's illogical to make snap judgments based on age - that all people older than 35 are old fogies, or all under 35 are immature, childish, and inexperienced. crotchety folks and immature folks can be found at all different ages...other than legality, it really bugs me when people get so hung up on age (maybe it's because i'm in an age gap relationship). anyway, i'm curious to hear from those who have been involved with these groups to see what happens with all the administrative stuff that you mentioned in your post (such as the founder's age, etc.). i'm also curious to see what other posters think about age and age minimums/maximums.

feylin -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 5:09:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister What happens when all these in the "under X age" gets to that age? Are you mandatory kicked out when you hit 35? When the whole "group" matures - do they change the requirements for the group? Their palm light starts blinking and they trudge off to the Carousel for enlightenment. You could always start your own group? Or, just keep visiting any and all groups that you enjoy.

JohnWarren -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 5:15:10 PM)
Of course since my first set of nipple clamps were triobites... live triobites, I can't qualify for membership in ANY age limited group. Of course, some people feel more comfortable locking doors and not being around "different" people. They form country clubs, religions and klans. It's fine with me as long as they are upfront about their limitations, but I do feel they are missing something. What's really funny (and this has happened to me) is when one of these organizations want a presenter who isn't from their restrictive class and magnanimously offer to cut a hole in the barbed wire and lower the drawbridge for the person they wouldn't mix with unless he or she had something they wanted. The term "hypocrite" sorta comes to mind. Of course, what's worse is for the "honoured exception" to come through the door that is locked for all his kindred.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 5:20:15 PM)
You'll have to check with the individual groups. For our TNG chapter, I aged out about a 4 days ago...but if I was in a relationship with someone who was still in the chapter, I would be welcome to participate as part of that relationship. It varies from chapter to chapter. Master Fire

Devilslilsister -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 5:31:26 PM)
I know there is another that runs a TNG group - but i dont think its age restricted... By your post Mr Warren, i seem to have the right of things. They're missing out and its not intelligent. I think if i was in your position, i'd be more then slightly offended. Not only for myself but for my kindred. Thats a very good point, age restricted groups - block out members like you who i knoooooooow have a valid contribution. Talk about cutting off your nose despite your face. Thanks for posting, its good to see the other side of the coin in a very real light. I cant believe they realy "age" out Fire. That just seems impersonal and thoughtless and all sorts of other things.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 7:17:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister far off from 35. Alot closer then i've ever been! ::sigh:: and i will only get closer. What happens when all these in the "under X age" gets to that age? Are you mandatory kicked out when you hit 35? When the whole "group" matures - do they change the requirements for the group? Does it suddenly become "under 55"? What if the Founder of the group turns 55 and everyone else is 35? Does the group need a new founder? In both BESS and BR, you are not allowed to attend unless as a guest of someone under that age cap. Everyone understands and respects it. And yes, a new group leader is chosen once the age cap is reached. Usually this is anticipated ahead of time and I haven't heard any issues. quote: Why must there be a seperation of age? Whats up with the exclusive mentality? I'm either getting old and i have forgotten whats the whole point of being exclusive when it comes to this. Or i've had a bad cold for the past few days and my brain isnt in the mood to think properly. Again, in the case of both BESS and BR, they are the parent groups and the TNG groups are a special interest group within them. Anyone in the TNG group is also welcome at any general BESS and BR function. People can feel more comfortable, welcome, and able to connect with people with other generally shared traits. They can also offer more specific support and celebration for a special interest group than just a general wanderer to the general group.

TypeAsub1 -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 7:27:45 PM)
Because the old guys like young chicks. If you made a group for people 35+, it would consist of mostly women. Any men who joined would be 55+. .. You might get a few very young guys in their late teens/early 20's.. looking for their Mrs. Robinson. I prefer to enjoy the company of my contemporaries. A group for people <35 is a good thing, because it allows those people who have shared histories and experiences to spend time communicating with one another. I have no problem with this. I think it's normal and healthy. quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister Why must there be a seperation of age? Whats up with the exclusive mentality? I'm either getting old and i have forgotten whats the whole point of being exclusive when it comes to this. Or i've had a bad cold for the past few days and my brain isnt in the mood to think properly. You know, i just dont see groups that are "35 and older" but then maybe i havent been invited to any since i'm not 35 and older. Seems to me there are fewer of the "only older" then the "only younger" as the older are most likely wiser then the younger and realise that a group that mixes all ages is intelligent. The whole thing just seems dumb to me and illogical. Which it just might be and if it is, then i'll sleep better. If it isnt, then i'd like my thinking clarified please - )

Wildfleurs -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 7:33:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister Why must there be a seperation of age? Because some people get tired of hearing that people in the scene own socks older than you (to which I always wonder why they are so proud of being to cheap to buy new socks). Frankly I experienced far more ageism than racism in the scene, something I always found a bit strange. C~

hisannabelle -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 7:34:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1 Because the old guys like young chicks. If you made a group for people 35+, it would consist of mostly women. Any men who joined would be 55+. .. You might get a few very young guys in their late teens/early 20's.. looking for their Mrs. Robinson. our local group has men between the ages of 35 and 55...there are very few, i think, over the age of 55. (as i mentioned before, though, also very few under the age of 30.) while i'm sure my personal relationship must be a prime example of "old guys like young chicks," i think that generalizing that all groups are like that is a pretty huge (and unfair) statement.

FelinePersuasion -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 7:42:08 PM)
I think it's a fine idea to have a generation x 35 and under group. It allowes people who feel the need to be in an age restricted enviroment to feel more secure. When you're just barely 18 and starting out there's hardly any other 18 and just starting out likely in the same group. And people will tell you at 18 and 19 and 20 why you're just a baby still. or I have kids older than you, or yeah clothing items older than you. Lots of the older people look down their noses in disdain at the "youngins" too. The age limit groups helps stop some of that.

Devilslilsister -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 8:51:07 PM)
i still think its cutting of your nose despite your face. Take Mr Warren for example, is it logical to exclude him from a group? I guess i was always of the understanding that the majority of this lifestyle is about education, self exploration, internal growth, learning about yourselves, fullfilling yourselves and so on. I personally find advice from those who are older much more valuable from lets say an 18 year old. Or even some one my age. I might enjoy being around others "my age" but i doubt i'm going to learn much from them. Sure their are wise people in my age group. Sure their are dumb people who are older. I think a group with all age mixes offers everyone a mix of opportunity. So WHAT if they have socks older then us? So what if their an ass. So what if they're dumb... so what if they're snobby, uptight.. irratating.. . so what? No one said "find the jerk in the group and talk to him" Aye, so the older generation is ... older. Hasnt anyone ever thought "if i knew what i know now when i was younger...." "damn, if only i had listened to those who were older with more experience" (where do you think you'll learn it?) I've always heard "respect your elders" and granted all elders arent the best to listen to, but i tend to be able to spot the ones that are. There IS a reason the saying "Respect your elders" has been around for ages. Its not all just hog wash to get the younger generations to fall in step. Our elders have so much to share with us and to exclude them is to exclude more then just "a person" Now granted, i'm argueing the logic of it all. I'm not argueing ethics, right or wrong, nor am i campaigning for their feelings. Thats a whole nother arguement. But i will say.. when it comes down to race.. oh we love to argue it all.. oh no.. equality and all that shit. Yet everyones equality only goes so far as they wish it to be. In reality, people only really care about themselves and whats good for them. Which is why i am argueing on logic here. People will do what they please, feel as they feel and go about their lives as they will. They will have age restricted groups, they will have the klans and gangs and all sorts of stuff. I'm still going to think its stupid. Illogical. NOW if some one like Latigress, or LaM, or KOM, or Mnotter, Mercnbeth or a few of the others on here that show a lot of wisdom in their posts - saying different then i could stand corrected. <shrugs> i just see no wisdom in doing things this way. Not that finding it stupid will change anything.... like i said.. its just my own musings

juliaoceania -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 8:51:23 PM)
quote: Of course since my first set of nipple clamps were triobites... live triobites, I can't qualify for membership in ANY age limited group. Oh you are not a fossil yet by any means!

TypeAsub1 -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 8:59:47 PM)
It's based on MY experience over the past 6 years online. My profile states explicitly that I do not want to hear from anyone more than 10 years older than me. Fully 80% of the emails I get are from men 55+. Then there are the young'ns.. a much smaller number, but those boys do exist too. The group you refer to - is it specificly for people aged 35+? That is what I was referring to. If someone made a group that didn't allow anyone under the age 35 to join - you would find precious few men in that group under age 50/55.. I promise you. I recently turned 40 (Dec. 16th). On another site I get notifications when someone hotlists me. The night I turned 40 I got home and logged into that site just after midnight. Suddenly, my inbox was FULL of hotlist notifications. TONS of them! All of them were men over 55.. many in their late 60's and a couple in their 70's. Apparently the old boys had the age range set 20+ years below theirs. You can enjoy whomever you wish for your life. But the fact is - old guys like young chicks. Always have... always will. One of the reasons I refuse to date a man that much older is because of this fact. You see.. if I date a man who is 20 years older than me and he kicks the bucket at 75.. i'll be 55 and single. It's hard enough to find a suitable Dom at 40 - no way do I want to be doing it at 55. Hell, all the old boys are chasing the 40 year olds at that age! People have to make choices for themselves. I don't begrudge you the ones you make for yourself. However, if you think my statement was incorrect --- wait until you're 40+ [:D] You'll be singing a different tune. quote: ORIGINAL: hisannabelle quote: ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1 Because the old guys like young chicks. If you made a group for people 35+, it would consist of mostly women. Any men who joined would be 55+. .. You might get a few very young guys in their late teens/early 20's.. looking for their Mrs. Robinson. our local group has men between the ages of 35 and 55...there are very few, i think, over the age of 55. (as i mentioned before, though, also very few under the age of 30.) while i'm sure my personal relationship must be a prime example of "old guys like young chicks," i think that generalizing that all groups are like that is a pretty huge (and unfair) statement.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 9:24:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1 wait until you're 40+ [:D] You'll be singing a different tune. As a 41 year old with an "old guy" for a Master (he is 58), I can only say I would have missed out on a hell of a lot had I turned away because of his age. I'd still be singing my unfulfilled and depressed tune had I not jumped at the opportunity he provided. And while it's true he will likely "kick the bucket" well before me, I would not trade one moment of my life with him for anything. As for liking young chicks, that's not his make up. He was concerned I was too young for him when we first began speaking, as he is accustomed to owning women much closer to his own age. I don't begrudge you your choices, just as you do not begrudge others. But not everyone at 40+ sings the tune you're speaking of. But I do think it's cool you think we're still "young chicks" [:D]

Wildfleurs -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 9:26:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Devilslilsister Which is why i am argueing on logic here. I don't see a lot of logic in the assumption that age=wisdom or age=experience in BDSM/SM/DS. And yes I'm absolutely comfortable with a group that excludes John Warren. I think he's a fine person, but there are groups that are for particular interests and tastes and subsections of the scene. There are groups for spankers only, groups for men into SM only, groups for women into SM only, groups for queers into SM only, groups for people only into the Master/Slave dynamic, groups for people of color... why in the world does a group for people of a certain age get all the flack? I see no reason to make all of the BDSM groups in the scene inclusive for every single person in the BDSM, and hell by their nature BDSM groups are excluding people who don't do BDSM, so even BDSM groups are excluding people. AARP membership is only for people over 50, can we get some complaints about their exclusionary policies? C~

hisannabelle -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 9:32:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: TypeAsub1 wait until you're 40+ [:D] You'll be singing a different tune. As a 41 year old with an "old guy" for a Master (he is 58), I can only say I would have missed out on a hell of a lot had I turned away because of his age. I'd still be singing my unfulfilled and depressed tune had I not jumped at the opportunity he provided. And while it's true he will likely "kick the bucket" well before me, I would not trade one moment of my life with him for anything. As for liking young chicks, that's not his make up. He was concerned I was too young for him when we first began speaking could not have said it better myself. i could have and in the past have gone into all the reasons i don't worry about being a widow at 40 or 50 (namely the fact that my health isn't spectacular, either), but i think people miss out on a -lot- because of squickiness about age. however, as things go, everybody has their own preferences, i guess. hell, i even have a laundry list of my own. i just make a regular practice of, well, pretending it doesn't exist.

maybeican -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 9:33:59 PM)
Well you are only as old as you feel and as young as you dare. I feel that people that set age limits, are limited in their own choices.

hisannabelle -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 9:35:04 PM)
for once, not a fastreply... i complain about a lot of people's exclusionary policies :P i don't think anyone here is saying that tng groups are teh evil and must be stopped. we're just discussing reasons why they may and may not work, or may and may not be preferable to some of us. last i checked...the board exists to express our opinions, be they for or against. and since it's a bdsm board, then we choose to express our opinions about (gasp!) bdsm groups, as opposed to, say, the aarp.

FatDomDaddy -> RE: Age (12/28/2006 10:10:33 PM)
I came into the local scene when I had just turned 40. I had dabbled a few years earlier but never found the right group. When I got there I found I was a bit of a tweener. I sensed early on the resentments from quite a few people who were 45 and older to the younger members who had found the group through the Internet, especially those members in their 20's and in particular to the 20's who found their way through the "Goth" scene. I think much of the resentment stems from the virtual ease in which newer generations to the BDSM scene seem to be able to not only play but live the lifestyle. Many younger (under 40) BDSM'ers are far more open about who they are than the "Old Guard" folks ever were. I would always hear on how newer people were not paying their dues, that they did not have to search long and hard to find the "scene" or that their openness and quick to play scenes were dangerous. Well who wants to hear that when they are 25??? I think under 35 groups are great for those who want to be in them and they have every right to set their own rules and limits the way they see fit. But I would add this.... There really cannot be exclusions of post 35 years olds if you make exceptions for a few you like or because one 30 yo sub wants to bring in her new 43 yo dom in or because a 29 yo dom has this hot 47 yo slut princess he wants to show off. If the Rule is not partners over 35 that's fine, stick to them. And if you say partners are fine up to X age, go for it. By all means make your own rules but be consistent.

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