quote:

I posted it here, because that is what has been discussed here often - by you and others. There are other things that don't turn us on - extreme sadism, anything involving urine, scat, blood, etc

Hmm, that seems like a list of things that do more than "not turn you on" but actually "turns you off." sissy Doesn't enjoy urine or scat play either ... it's a hard limit for him because the idea of being defecated or vomited on turns him completely off, as well as it being a serious health risk IsHO. Ditto bloodsports ... sissy is a little queasy WRT anything to do with blood that should be on the inside of his body being on the outside of it, and that also makes it a serious health risk. These are not things that sissy feels ambivalent towards ... they are big TURN OFFS and hard limits.

Are you telling sissy that crossdressing and sissification (which, BTW, are not the same thing) are hard limit TURN OFFS for you ? Or are you simply ambivalent towards these activities ?

sissy maid lola




< Message edited by sissymaidlola -- 4/5/2005 5:21:13 PM >

_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
whereas crossdressing/sissification has been brought up in this thread more than once.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola

Are you now telling sissy that crossdressing and sissification (which, BTW, are not the same thing) are hard limit TURN OFFS for you ? Or are you simply ambivalent towards these activities ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
whereas crossdressing/sissification has been brought up in this thread more than once.

And I'm still trying to figure out why! This is a thread about forced masculinity.

- LA

quote:

I don't care for mustard - its not my thing. I do not keep in my house. But I do not think less of someone else for liking mustard. Mustard is okay, it is just not for me.

Ah, but the difference is, chris, you haven't started a thread at CollarMe called Forced Ketchup Appreciation and invited fellow ketchup kinksters to post there how much they like all things ketchup and tomato-purée based, as well as how much they don't like, or even despise, other condiment based kinks. But let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you had. If now some mustard kinkster posted on your thread not even saying that ketchup was bad, or mustard was better, but simply something that was humorous about the history of condiment perversion in general, and having no sense of humor you mistook it for a direct attack on your beloved ketchup kink, would that give you and others the right to fill people's screens with mustardphobic comments ?

Not liking mustard is fine, chris, and even enthusing on a public message board how much you enjoy ketchup, something that many might consider a direct alternative to mustard, is also fine. Stating why you personally don't like mustard yourself is also acceptable. Even telling a mustard kinster not to post on your thread - because you don't bring up the topic of ketchup on mustard-centric threads, so you don't want any mention of mustard on your ketchup thread - might also be acceptable, although sissy thought that was possibly going a little too far. To ask a mustard kinkster not to post pro-mustard comments on your thread, while allowing ketchup kinksters to make as many anti-mustard comments as they cared to, is a little censorious, dontcha fink? Anyway, none of that is overtly mustardphobic, chris, and IsHO did not cross the line.

But now imagine that someone who was African American posted on your thread and upset you, for whatever reason, but instead of debating them - or even politely requesting that they bypass the thread, or even requesting them to retract their posts, or possibly PMing them to ask WTF, etc. - you made a post that was ONLY insults, including telling them to shove it using the "N" word for maximun effect. Would people be correct in saying that was an inappropriate racist post ? How about you used a mustardphobic equivalent of the racist "N" word insult ? Would accusations of mustardphobia now be justified ? What if your own mustardphobic comments then made it open season for any angry bitch Domme with a foul mouth to join in the hate fest with Her own wealth of bigoted slurs, thus causing a moderator to intervene ?

This is not quite the same, "Mustard is okay, it is just not for me" situation that you posted about, now is it Pollyanna ? sissy Is just bringing a touch of reality back to your fantasy, chris.

sissy maid lola




_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to onceburned)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola
would that give you and others the right to fill people's screens with mustardphobic comments ?

quote:

Back to the discussion; I believe it would be something of an art form to "tease out" this aspect of a male's latent traits.

quote:

Finally, FYI, there is no such kink as "forced masculinity." It exists, too, only in Your own head, LA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

Back to the discussion; I believe it would be something of an art form to "tease out" this aspect of a male's latent traits. Just as it would be interesting to see what other hidden talents might be discovered along the way.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola
Finally, FYI, there is no such kink as "forced masculinity." It exists, too, only in Your own head, LA.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes
Actually, lola, ANYTHING can be a kink and/or fetish. Just because it isn't popularized on websites does not make it less of a kink for her - and others.

Not sure why You posted this against chris ... does nobody posting on this thread know how to use "tree stye" ? But the post was clearly directed at lola so sissy will address it.

To some extent You have opened up a Pandora's Box with that comment. There are some people that define a "kink" as being separate from a "fetish" - and You acknowledge that difference with Your use of "and/or." Setting aside that distinction for a second, there are some that will define "kinky" as meaning "not of the norm" (i.e., "kinky" = "not vanilla") while others might define a "kinky activity" as anything that produces sexual arousal in its participants. The differences between a "kink" and a "fetish" and what constitutes either could well be the topic for a whole thread in itself, and sissy doesn't want to go there here.

But if you subscribe to the latter definition of "kink" then, as You say, ANYTHING at all can be a kink as long as there exists someone, somewhere in the world that is regularly "turned on" by it, and by this definition "forced masculinity" is a kink. Even if LA was the only person so turned on by it, under this definition, it would still be a kink. And if sissy gets a hard-on every time he folds silk PJs, then folding silk PJs is a kink too. But the problem sissy has with this definition is that it is too broad and weak - under it almost anything can be classified as a kink - and it becomes a relatively meaningless term. Even traditional "vanilla" activities - such as making love to one's spouse in the missionary position - also become kinks adopting this approach. Thus using this definition of "kink" renders the concept of "vanilla' meaningless.

The word "kinky" clearly has an implied meaning of "different from the norm" - even if this is only one of its meanings and doesn't entirely embrace the full meaning of the word. Although we all have a pretty good idea what the norm or mainstream standards for sex or intimacy are in our society without having to rigorously define what "vanilla" means, nevertheless every kinkster's definition of what "vanilla" embodies, and from which they clearly see their own proclivities as deviating, probably still differs from individual to individual. Again, this could also be a topic for a whole thread in itself.

So, with those caveats in place, let sissy state that what he meant by his post statement was "different from the norm." This thread is about males being masculine, or more masculine than when they started off. The idea of men being masculine would fall into the vast majority of people's definition as being normal and therefore the activity is by sissy's definition, not a kink, but lies purely in the realm of the vanilla. Every loving wife / girlfriend / SO who, by being feminine, makes their husband / boyfriend / SO feel particularly masculine and protective of her when they are together, is doing what this thread addresses. It is NOT a kink, it is part of the way all normally wired people behave.

Here's the litmus test. Do You think this topic could have been discussed on a non-BDSM message board if it had not originally been given such a contrived name and context, and all of the participants did not have to do what they do to stay in character for this board (such as sissies curtseying or Dommes saying, "address Me as Miss," etc.) ? Tell sissy what there is about the core topic of this thread (making males get in touch with their "masculine side") that makes it a BDSM site only topic.

Understand, sissy isn't saying that the thread shouldn't have been started because it isn't about a real kink, sissy is just defending his statement. And even if You can come up with some reason that makes it "X-rated" so to speak, sissy is still right in claiming the thread title is somewhat bogus ... even LA has admitted that the title is tongue-in-cheek.

To some extent this thread topic reminds sissy of crossdressers that crossdress back to their original gender. As in the movie Victor / Victoria. Julie Andrews played the role of a woman impersonating a man who then crossdresses as a woman. Hello, that is what she started off as ... how long do we continue this potential infinite regress ? Is it double crossdressing or just un-crossdressing ? In a forum full of sub males that want to be feminized or sissified, this thread might look like a hot BDSM topic because it's so different than all the other "forced feminization" threads ... but just a minute, is this a double kink or just vanilla ?

sissy maid lola




< Message edited by sissymaidlola -- 4/5/2005 2:57:54 PM >

_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to SweetDommes)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola

Not sure why You posted this against chris ... does nobody posting on this thread know how to use "tree stye" ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella
Sadly Angelika, some people have the lamentable habit of taking one person's opinion entirely out of context & creating a lot of drama around this mistake of theirs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella
I have spoken my mind from experience & observation, not conjecture. I have returned discourtesy when it was heaped upon me. I don't feel the need to jusitfy my actions/words simply because it upsets someone that knows nothing about me. I will not rise to the bait of these barbs simply to engage in a mudfest.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella
Back to the discussion; I believe it would be something of an art form to "tease out" this aspect of a male's latent traits. Just as it would be interesting to see what other hidden talents might be discovered along the way.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

quote:

Finally, FYI, there is no such kink as "forced masculinity." It exists, too, only in Your own head, LA.

Actually, lola, ANYTHING can be a kink and/or fetish. Just because it isn't popularized on websites does not make it less of a kink for her - and others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: GddssBella

Back to the discussion; I believe it would be something of an art form to "tease out" this aspect of a male's latent traits. Just as it would be interesting to see what other hidden talents might be discovered along the way.

Hmm... maybe as we try it we should post about hidden talents? That sounds like it could also be a fun and interesting thread.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissymaidlola
Not sure why You posted this against chris ... does nobody posting on this thread know how to use "tree stye" ?

quote:

My gosh, if that isn't nit-picking I don't know what is. ?

Actually, chris, if you read the threads in "tree style" as sissy does you would know that it is not just a nit-pick. If you read in "flat style" then you forego all structure and context for a thread in preference to getting to read the posts in strict chronological order. So you won't even notice if someone is posting all over the place, and that comment may be indeed appear to be a nit-pick to you. sissy Prefers to read the threads in "tree style" because the clear indication of the context of the posts is more important to him than the strict timing of the posts because most people don't do their posts in real time like you do, chris. They go online every so often and make all their posts in a batch, so the timing of the posts is pretty irrelevant ... they might be posting against posts made over a week ago and which are 20, 30 or more posts old if the thread is listed in strict chronological order. sissy Makes his posts mostly in batch mode like that.

Most threads are no more than one or two pages long so a misplaced post, although a little annoying, is easily found. That is possibly, as you say, a nit. But this thread is now eleven pages long and a misplaced post can end up 4 or 5 pages away on some totally unrelated sub-thread. That is very annoying and requires a lot of paging backwards and forwards between pages to relate the context of the chain of posts that logically should all be grouped on the same sub-thread. If you have to hop around too many times you end up getting disoriented and forget where you started from.

sissy Has been annoyed WRT improperly placed posts by this thread much more than by any other thread he has read. As sissy hinted at above, that may simply be a function of this thread's overall size which might serve to magnify the problem (the incorrectly placed post appearing four pages away rather than three messages further down the same page) as well as create more absolute instances of the problem. If sissy understands SweetDommes response above the problem may be a consequence of using the "Fast Reply" feature. In which case, if that is true, a responsible, courteous user should simply avoid using that method for making their posts. OTOH, it may also be more of a reflection of the totally self-centered me-oriented personalities of certain members that are drawn to posting on this thread.

Yes, chris, this was not a particularly egregious case of misplacing a post. sissy Drew attention to it to let the person know that he considers what They are doing to be disrespectful of others. If someone had posted that comment to sissy he would have apologized for his faux pas and made an extra effort to catch himself if he looked like doing it again. But hey, that's just me. Different strokes for different folks. Others at CollarMe feel that a profane rant is the appropriate response for most things.

Making properly spelt, grammatically correct and contextually accurate posts shows a respect and courtesy to other users. As does not filling one's posts with lies and deceit, gratuitous profanity and bigotry. If any intelligent reader bothers to carefully read this thread from beginning to end they will find all of the above traits exhibited in the posts of three of the main Domme contributors to this thread. sissy Could name them, but he'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

BTW, chris, why did You take sissy to task for what you considered to be a nit-pick, while you were quite happy to sit on the sidelines and applaud when LA accused sissy of "renaming Her thread" because he gave his post its own name. Now that really was a nit-pick if ever there was one, and it was incorrect, to boot! Naming a post does not rename a thread. Where was the nit-pick police then, chris ? Or did teacher's pet have to stay late after school that day?

Respectfrilly yours,

sissy maid lola




< Message edited by sissymaidlola -- 4/5/2005 11:47:11 AM >

_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to onceburned)