quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover


I'm fond of saying that the lifestyle does not descend upon us like the Holy Spirit, imbuing us with qualities and skills that we do not alreay possess.  That's not to say that people cannot improve their skills, though that takes some hard work and dedication on their own part.  In regards to "communication", I've found that it's not sufficient to simply "want" to communicate more or better.  It's been my experience that it's essential to create a structure to support and assist communication, and to that it remains consistently a part of your relationship.  Communication, like many things, can become habitual in it's use, or disuse.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
Personally, when people forget that the most important part of all this, D/s or vanilla, is the RELATIONSHIP, however we structure the relationship, verses the individual, is when communication breaks down and ceases to be called anything close to communication. It's not a dominant issue. It's not a submissive issue. It's a relationship issue, and it's an issue of each person being willing to learn what works for their relationship and then using that when they actually do communicate with each other - instead of beating each other up with their words - or lack thereof.

juliet

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

I think it can be twisted both ways, tho.  There's the "you'll do X if you are a true submissive".  And I think that communication is a valuable skill set for people, not doms, not subs, not slaves, just people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra
Personally, when people forget that the most important part of all this, D/s or vanilla, is the RELATIONSHIP, however we structure the relationship, verses the individual, is when communication breaks down and ceases to be called anything close to communication. It's not a dominant issue. It's not a submissive issue. It's a relationship issue, and it's an issue of each person being willing to learn what works for their relationship and then using that when they actually do communicate with each other - instead of beating each other up with their words - or lack thereof.

juliet

Precisely so, juliet.  As I was reading your post, in my mind I was preparing to write pretty much the same thing... people forget that, at it's core, it's a relationship and that a relationship is what you (both) make of it.  This entire thread is not about any lifestyle issue.  It's an issue about skills that contribute to the quality of a relationship.
 
John
 
P.S. - What constitutes "adequate" communication in a relationship varies widely with the individual partners.  I wouldn't want to make it appear that I advocate any particular level or quality of communication as appropriate for everyone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


And yet I find myself so confused as to why anytime we suggest that dominants be held accountable for their honest and open communication, suddenly there's loads of talk about it being the "dominants authority to clam up and not talk about whatever they want" or "submissives are just insecure and scared and can't open up directly."

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112


Accountability is a scary concept.  Even for some Dom(me)s!

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

I think it can be twisted both ways, tho.  There's the "you'll do X if you are a true submissive".  And I think that communication is a valuable skill set for people, not doms, not subs, not slaves, just people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Caveat:  This isn't anything we probably haven't heard a few dozens times before- if not even in this very past week.  But it's been rolling around in my head and I wanted to make a clear starting post from it.  Hope you enjoy, would love to hear responses of all sorts, but will be ok with no responses at all.

Oh, and as always, private emails will be read.

*****

I don't think there's anyone who would suggest the concept of communication isn't vital to the foundation of healthy relationship out there.  In fact it's probably necessary to "informed, free consent" to have any sort of real value and meaning.

And yet I find myself so confused as to why anytime we suggest that dominants be held accountable for their honest and open communication, suddenly there's loads of talk about it being the "dominants authority to clam up and not talk about whatever they want" or "submissives are just insecure and scared and can't open up directly."

There's so much scheming and worries and basic problems- we see them here on collarme countless times.  All problems so EASILY taken care of, if not prevented in the first place, with simply having direct and open communication right from the start.

Yet somehow not only do we not have that basic communication intact (all the while the people in those relationships proclaiming just how strong and devoted they are to eachother...until it crashes and burns and they come asking for help on how to deal with THAT), we actually make excuses for it!

In my years of experience and observation, there may indeed be times in which a dominant needs to withhold something, or that withholding something won't cause any real problem in the relationship.  I'm certainly willing to concede that point.

I'm also willing to concede that insecurity runs rampant in many doms and subs and that will cause them to have difficulties in communication.  While it doesn't excuse them from being accountable for it, it is understandable to have as an issue and can be worked with if at least openly admitted.

However, when it comes to day to day life, understanding expectations, building a present and future together, I simply don't see the reason for excuses.  Almost every single instance I hear of communication issues stemming from the dom, it's merely the dominant throwing a cop-out tantrum and shaming the sub into accepting silence instead of communication.  While this inevitably bites everyone on the ass later, they simply accept it at the time and limp along awhile longer. 

If people started demanding accountability instead of allowing excuses, they'd be in much more fulfilling relationships.  It would mean taking what you say seriously in terms of saying you want a solid and honest relationship, rather than giving lip-service in order to get your kinky rocks off or have the thrill of "being collared."

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Years ago when going through marketing and sales training, during a 120-hour course we had to go through three days of learning how to listen.  The class was entitled "Active Listening" and in it i learned how often we hear but don't listen.  We don't actively listen.   We learned that in the first three seconds of a person talking to us, we begin formulating our answer and at that point we stop really listening. We hear, but our brains are processing our response, not processing the other person's words.   In order for real communication to take place it's not a matter of people talking it's about people listening.