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Handling Feminist Friends - 12/30/2006 11:23:37 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

Today I had the most uncomfortable situation of being told that I'm "setting women back" and that I've internalized oppression, which really doesn't make sense. I know in my head that there isn't all that much that I can do but it's so frustrating to have a friend tell you that the collaring ceremony you wish for quietly is so wrong. I know that really I can do is tell my friend that I'm sorry but I can no longer allow them access to facets of my personal life. He will no longer be welcome at some of my social gatherings and no longer as welcome in my home. To me, this is very much like telling me that I am wrong for bisexual and I have a hard time dealing with it. To talk as though my dominant is oppressing me, to act like he is a bad man, perhaps even an abuser... I can't even find words to describe my fury.

I have learned a lot about different lifestyles during my time on the forums. I wish that I could get my friend to read the forums and learn more about the actual lifestyle part of BDSM, but he mocks the time I do spend here so I know it's not going to happen. He doesn't believe that this can be a lifestyle and he hates that in most vanilla relationships there is a partner who generally gets their way. This person went so far as to tell me that feminism isn't about choice, though he didn't tell me exactly what is was about. In the end, I handled the situation by firmly telling him that I wouldn't talk about it anymore, got in my car and simply left. I was just getting too angry and too upset with him (particularly since he had spent the afternoon mooching off me).

What I would like to ask for is advice. How do you handle this brand of feminist? I am still attending college and go to a particularly liberal one. I'm sure I will run into this attitude again. Do you think avoidance is the best policy or should I try to stand my ground? All advice is appreciated.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

Post #: 1

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:03:30 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I have some very close friends who, as much as they try, simply can not grasp the concept of me being submissive. These are really good friends too, who have helped me through some huge upheavals, and for whom I have done the same.

"You're setting women back 50 years" is something I hear. Or, "You need to just tell him that he needs to _________" (whatever it is they think he needs to do). Or, "All I can see is you are going to end up really hurt."

They mean well. It comes from their hearts. They can not possibly relate and I no longer expect them to. Does it hurt? Yes, sometimes. Sometimes I wish I never told them. Sometimes I think, Well, I did tell them and they still love me and it's all good. But for the most part I just limit what I tell them anymore. Speaking to them of him only invites unwanted comments, spoken out of their care for me. When I do speak of him, he is "Mr. Wonderful" because they can't stand "The M word." When they ask periodic questions, I give them vague'ish answers, and when they make comments, I just say, "Well, our relationship isn't like that." There really isn't anything more to tell them.

But they love me. And they try. And I love them in return. But I limit what I share. It's easier for all of us that way. I have other friends I can share such things with, so it's not like I am isolated.

I don't feel a need to impose my way on others, and our friendships are based on many deep principles. They accept me, and try to understand me (that's a challenge on it's own!) and that's really all I can ask of any friend.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 2

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:04:55 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

First of all if I had this attitude thrust at me by someone I would draw myself up into an indignant stance and tell them as politely as possible that as a woman who gets to make decisions about what I want to do with my body and my life it is none of his concern. I would probably not remain friends with this person either. I would try one more time to explain that it is as if he was ridiculing you for being gay, and since he refuses to educate himself about it, his ignorance may destroy your friendship.

In essense he is rejecting you, because your submissiveness is a part of you. And you can tell him some dominants are feminists, like my Daddy for instance.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 3

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:10:04 AM

SweetDommes

Posts: 3313
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline

Remind them that the Feminist movement was NOT to force women into a certain role, it was to prevent women from being forced into the role of housewife. It was to allow women to CHOOSE to do what they wanted - and what you want is what you have. After that, if it comes up again, simply tell them that you are aware of their opinion and you don't wish to discuss it with them.

My mom and my aunt have been going round and round about this for years because my aunt has always looked down on my mom for being a stay at home mom (who also raised my aunt's kids, for the record).

< Message edited by SweetDommes -- 12/31/2006 12:12:05 AM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 4

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:10:44 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Remind them that at the core of Feminism is the right of the woman to choose her path for herself. This is the path that you are choosing and thus you are exercising your right as a Feminist to do so. That you've chosen a different path than her simply leaves her dealing with "her stuff" about it. Her reaction to what you choose really has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her and "her stuff". Enjoy your choice.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 5

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:11:12 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

If you choose to be submissive, then how are you possibly setting all women back? AS a Gender in the whole, what one does doesnt necessarily influence what another does. I do not feel as if my position as a dominant liberated female is being jepordized becasue I know submissive women. I respect their decision to submit to someone else.
I have pondered something, though. What would these same soap-box femenists say to a D/s lesbian couple? Is a submissive lesbian OK since they arent giving their power to men?
Its a lot of the same thing that submissive men get, whe they get found out. no one understand how they can completely submit to a womans will without being henpecked or pussywhipped.

Personaly, I just tell them look, this is what I am. If you dont like it, then I guess this is where we part ways. Its ben nice knowing you, but if you cant deal with who I am as a person, then we have nothing more to say to one another.
Ive had that chat a few tmies with friends who cant get around my being Dominant and how I treat my slaves.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 6

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:25:17 AM

Emperor1956

Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline

Dear AquaticSub: I have several feminist friends and I handle them frequently. I... oh, wait. that's not what you meant.

Never mind...

And happy new year, everyone.

E.

_____________________________

"When you wake up, Pooh," said Piglet, "what's the first thing you say?"
"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 7

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:34:26 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

In essense he is rejecting you, because your submissiveness is a part of you. And you can tell him some dominants are feminists, like my Daddy for instance.

I think you have hit the nail on the head on what is so hurtful about this for me. He goes to various BDSM play parties, but he goes much like a leech - invited because you couldn't invite so-and-so without him. He is my friend and I will defend him in a many situations but I have to be honest about that because he views play parties as a place for him to get kinky sex and doesn't understand why I refuse to spill details about ones he hasn't been to. I don't know who keeps their d/s in the closet and I don't want to be the one who "outs" someone by accident. I find this rejection even harsher as he tops frequently in his sex life so I feel like he should understand. It seems I will have to either come to terms with this, or remove this friend from my life. Which is something that my dominant endorses anyway.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 8

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 12:35:27 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Emperor1956

Dear AquaticSub: I have several feminist friends and I handle them frequently. I... oh, wait. that's not what you meant.

Never mind...

And happy new year, everyone.

E.

*chuckles* Thanks for the giggle.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Emperor1956)

Post #: 9

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 2:36:50 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

aloha aquatic,

interesting question you ask, thing is the way i look at it is, that sharing anything about D/s is the same as talking about anything of a sexual nature.....it really is to personal, too intimate and too sacred to share.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 10

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 3:35:45 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

aloha aquatic,

interesting question you ask, thing is the way i look at it is, that sharing anything about D/s is the same as talking about anything of a sexual nature.....it really is to personal, too intimate and too sacred to share.

I understand your point of view, but I would have a hard time concealing it. I don't think I jump to share, though my friends agree I have a problem with TMI. This particular person is someone who I couldn't have concealed it from anyway as he used to attend the same play parties as me

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/31/2006 3:37:52 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 11

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 3:41:17 AM

BLsMst45

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/1/2006
Status: offline

The Feminist Movement is about Choice. Tell your friend in no uncertain terms, that YOU have made one! Stand firm and without resolve. This is your life and you should live it as you decide.
The old addage; "take me as I am" comes to mind.
Or as Popeye always said; "I am's whats I am's and dats all whats I am's"
And who can argue with cartoon logic?

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 12

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 3:54:22 AM

eyesopened

Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline

i want to comment so badly but will bite my tongue because i really fail to see how the feminist movement really improved anything. Women ARE becoming equal in heart-disease, and other stress-related illness, children are being cared for by benevolent strangers, more men hate and fear women than ever before and i fail to see how any of this has helped our society in the least.

How to handle unwelcome comments? Simply say "Your comments are not welcome and if you are my friend you will find another subject. How 'bout them Blue Devils?"

_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 13

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 3:58:42 AM

nephandi

Posts: 4470
Joined: 9/23/2005
From: Cold and magickal Norway in a town near Bergen!
Status: offline

Well they did give women the right to vote, now most women in the west get an education so if their husband leve them or they become widows they do not starve. Women whit no intrest in BDSM and D/s dont have to cater to her husbands every need becouse she is not considerd equal and have equal rights. Ofcurse that freedom comes whit a price, is that price worth paying? That is for te induvidual to deside.

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 14

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 3:58:59 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

i want to comment so badly but will bite my tongue because i really fail to see how the feminist movement really improved anything. Women ARE becoming equal in heart-disease, and other stress-related illness, children are being cared for by benevolent strangers, more men hate and fear women than ever before and i fail to see how any of this has helped our society in the least.

How to handle unwelcome comments? Simply say "Your comments are not welcome and if you are my friend you will find another subject. How 'bout them Blue Devils?"

We've got choices. If we are using them wisely is a different matter. Plus birth control is really nice.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to eyesopened)

Post #: 15

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 4:02:14 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

quote:

This particular person is someone who I couldn't have concealed it from anyway as he used to attend the same play parties as me

hmm...i wonder did he tell all the subs at these play parties his feelings? are there some subs that he does not feel that way about? if he is your friend i might suggest asking him more about his reason for saying that, what does he feel the feminist movement accomplished that you have now put in jeopardy for millions of women?

i think his comment was incendiary, and i think it represents a strain in your friendship, i am guessing the "mooching thing" is getting uncomfortable, and he knows it, so he pushed some buttons to deflect the issue so he does not have to face it...

kind of standard manipulation tactic...sadly...i know this from experience.

i would gently talk to him about the mooching thing....and let him know that he is putting undue strain on the relationship and ask him if he is aware that he is pushy you away and if he is ok with that.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 16

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 4:11:00 AM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

quote:

This particular person is someone who I couldn't have concealed it from anyway as he used to attend the same play parties as me

hmm...i wonder did he tell all the subs at these play parties his feelings? are there some subs that he does not feel that way about? if he is your friend i might suggest asking him more about his reason for saying that, what does he feel the feminist movement accomplished that you have now put in jeopardy for millions of women?

I highly doubt he told everyone but he may have. He's been banned from some of the houses they are hosted at, for reasons of genaral jackass-ery.

quote:

i think his comment was incendiary, and i think it represents a strain in your friendship, i am guessing the "mooching thing" is getting uncomfortable, and he knows it, so he pushed some buttons to deflect the issue so he does not have to face it.

kind of standard manipulation tactic...sadly...i know this from experience.

i would gently talk to him about the mooching thing....and let him know that he is putting undue strain on the relationship and ask him if he is aware that he is pushy you away and if he is ok with that.

I don't know if he is aware that he is mooching. I do know that I need to talk to him about it. It's an different prospective on the situation then I had considered before. Thank you, though I have a feeling that the damage he's done with this (and I'm fairly sure he won't be apologizing) is just beyond what is reasonable to repair. He's been a good friend but he's also been a huge asshole to me and a lot of people that I care about.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to crouchingtigress)

Post #: 17

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 4:15:12 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

I pretty much agree with CT. If he's really your friend, just tell him you prefer NOT to discuss this subject as it is obvious you don't agree and leave it at that. If he pushes or continues to discuss, well, in my opinion, he isn't much of a friend.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 18

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 4:32:57 AM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

yeah i see that (the asshole thing) i am guessing he is a really nice guy but has some intimacy and boundary issues that cause him to self destruct in social situations....too bad...

aqua i know i am very off beat and all....and this is going to sound crazy, but perhaps he could be sat down with some friends who do care about him and be told that his behavior is is going to cause him to be ostracized ...

when i was about 15 i used to compulsively lie.....about everything....i will always be grateful to my friends that had the courage and compassion to sit me down and tell me the effect my behavior was having on their lives.

i only say this because you seem to really care about him on some level....so i am guessing you probably dont want him to self destruct....

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 19

RE: Handling Feminist Friends - 12/31/2006 5:25:07 AM

RedSavageSlave

Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

What I would like to ask for is advice. How do you handle this brand of feminist? I am still attending college and go to a particularly liberal one. I'm sure I will run into this attitude again. Do you think avoidance is the best policy or should I try to stand my ground? All advice is appreciated.

Personally??? I laugh my ass off and thank them for giving me so much power over where ALL the women in the world are headed in their own interpersonal relationships with others. It can be quite overwhelming but I am sure that once you get past the anger..you too will feel your awesomeness in choosing the path of so many people who of course rely on you for their own empowerment as women. Good luck as you continue to rule the world babe!

And from Merriam Websters Online dictionary:

Main Entry: 1friend
Pronunciation: 'frend
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English frend, from Old English frEond; akin to Old High German friunt friend, Old English frEon to love, frEo free
1 a : one attached to another by affection or esteem
2 a : one that is not hostile
4 : a favored companion

You may want to rethink whether this person is in fact a friend or not?

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 20

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