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The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:18:24 AM   
TPEOwner


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline 		In my not so humble opinion, the ultimate lie is the one you tell yourself.  The reason I say that is because if you believe the lies you tell yourself, then everything you tell others is also a lie.  The one I run into so often on sites like this is "I'm seeking a real life relationship".  I can't even begin to count how many women I've contacted, or who have contacted me, who are "seeking a real life relationship", but yet somehow never seem to meet anyone.  It starts with "I want to get to know you on line and build trust first", but then it goes on and on.  Even if you play the getting to know you on line game, the excuses and backpeddling start right away, as they come up with reason after reason why they can't or aren't ready.  If you are silly enough to stay with it and try to calm their fears, eventually, after they've wasted as much of your time as they can, they will finally break down and admit they are not going to meet you.  Afterwards, they convince themselves that whoever they were talking to wasn't what they really wanted.  He was too pushy, or too meek, or liked baseball, or whatever it takes to continue their lie to themselves that they are seeking a real life partner.  And they go to their munches or chat rooms to wail and complain that there are no good whatevers out there, and everyone is playing games.

I know how many liars, game players and idiots there are out there.  The ones who think interest in bdsm and the annonymity of the internet means they can be as rude, crude and obnoxious as they want.  They come dominant and submissive, male and female.  But I also know there are some really great people out there and you can find them with a little persistance.  I also know that objective self analysis is extremely difficult.  But at some point, when you always seem to find a way to not do the thing you claim you want to, isn't it time to stop lying to yourself?  You may really, really believe you want to meet someone, but you also know you never will.  Life is just far too scary for you to handle, and better not to try than try and fail.  Ultimately, you have the right to waste your life.  What you don't have is the right to waste other people's time.  If you aren't going to meet anyone, put it on your profile.  Don't contact people who are seeking real life unless you make it clear that you are not.

I've learned to cut my losses.  As soon as the backpeddling starts, I walk away.  But I've still wasted time I could have put to better things, like sending uirban legend warnings to everyone on my contact lists.  Did you know that Yahoo is going to start charging 10 cents per e-mail?

End of rant.
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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:21:30 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		If you meet 20 people online who don't want to meet you in real life, is it you or them?

Yours,


benji

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:25:15 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline 		Well...if you want to meet someone, then go to a REAL LIFE meeting...as in munches, dungeons, clubs etc. I am amazed at the people online who continue to complain about others online who refuse to meet in real life. Since when did the interenet become the 'road' to happy ever after?
/scratches head in confusion
 
( no offense to those who have successfull online first meet relationships. I know there are exceptions out there )

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:29:14 AM   
OedipusRexIt


Posts: 634
Joined: 11/15/2005
Status: offline 		Leaving aside the rest of it, the main point of the OP about lying to yourself being the ultimate does resonate.

People who lie to themselves find it easier to lie to others.  Part of the self-lying is being able to convince yourself that it "really wasn't a lie" or "it's only a little white lie" or "everyone does it" or even "I have a good (albeit self-serving) reason for lying".

Lies beget lies.  Liars are just that, no matter to whom they lie.

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:31:02 AM   
TPEOwner


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

If you meet 20 people online who don't want to meet you in real life, is it you or them?

Yours,

benji


No one is compatible with everyone.  I'm not talking about people who don't want to meet me.  I'm talking about people who say they do want to meet me, but don't.

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:31:14 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Leaving aside the rest of it, the main point of the OP about lying to yourself being the ultimate does resonate.

Yes, I will concede that

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:33:34 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline 		I too got sick of all the BS on the web as far as meeting people.
I started to mostly meet new people at Munches or local Face to Face groups instead of in web sites.
I found I was not willing to sit here typing my life away and got up and started living those several hours a day I no longer spend in here.
LOL I'm down to a little over an hour a day now vs the three I used to be in here.
I mostly just read this message board and post in here online and that's about it.
If there's no munches near you start one and mention it to people you know and groups in your area.
I've found it cuts out a lot of the fake online crap.
I guess the best thing I can say is it does happen all the time. For reasons and excuses more numerous than the sun there are people who don't meet someone after so much time's been invested, but at least you are not alone.
Hell due to circumstances beyond my control I had to push some meetings a couple of times in the past myself.
suzanne

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:35:53 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		if i lie to myself, my self never believes me...LOL

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:36:45 AM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I have yet to find someone who is entirely honest with themselves.

It's a thin line between lying to yourself and not knowing yourself well enough to understand what you want.

I tend to think I know myself reasonably well, and I find myself lying to myself all the time.  But coming to understand yourself well enough to recognize those lies you tell is a long road.

Every change you make within yourself starts with the lie "I know I can do it."

Yours,


benji

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:41:54 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Sometimes, the hardest thing in life is learning that what you thought you wanted isn't really it...or that you're not ready for it...or that you're afraid of it. For more of the people I know, their greatest fear isn't failure, it's success. For if we are successful, what would we have left to complain about?

Master Fire


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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 10:57:01 AM   
TPEOwner


Posts: 73
Joined: 9/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

Sometimes, the hardest thing in life is learning that what you thought you wanted isn't really it...or that you're not ready for it...or that you're afraid of it. For more of the people I know, their greatest fear isn't failure, it's success. For if we are successful, what would we have left to complain about?

Master Fire


I happen to be extremely well qualified to speak on that.  I am  Red Sox fan.  Until 2004, it could be argued that we were the most masochistic group there was.  For as far back as I can remember, people argued about how winning a world series would change Red Sox fandom.  Perpetual victims was a big part of our identity.  I can safely say that it hasn't changed us at all.  The passion and pathos are unchanged.  The fact is, that people who are determined to be unhappy won't let success deter them.

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 12:25:29 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

I have yet to find someone who is entirely honest with themselves.

It's a thin line between lying to yourself and not knowing yourself well enough to understand what you want.

I tend to think I know myself reasonably well, and I find myself lying to myself all the time.  But coming to understand yourself well enough to recognize those lies you tell is a long road.

Every change you make within yourself starts with the lie "I know I can do it."

Yours,


benji


Omg, this is so true.  I find myself playing this game all the time.  I want to do something, and convince myself I can do something, start feeling and acting like I've already done it, then, in a really scary moment, realize I haven't done jack shit, and then have to hurry up and do it because I really hate the thought of being a liar.

Since my separation/divorce, I've done all my dating through through the internet and it works pretty much like that.  In some wacky mood, I commit to a meeting, then have major second thoughts and realize I so much don't want to, but still meet because, well, I said I'd do it, and I don't want to be a liar. 

Maybe instead of lies, they're advances on the truth. :)

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 1:11:11 PM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline 		Again TPEOwner, you have hit it square on the mark..and I also strongly resonate. In this context- a personals site, Ive spent too many months chasing that which wouldnt be caught. I'm starting to wonder if many women have strong submissive fantasies, but fear the reality of being one subconsciously, and sidestep any move to irl meet you or surrender with every defense and ruse imaginable, while refusing to acknowledge they are even doing so.

Good post. I learned. Thats 2.

TY
MGD


< Message edited by mgdartist -- 1/4/2007 1:12:56 PM >

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 1:16:36 PM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline
quote:

Did you know that Yahoo is going to start charging 10 cents per e-mail?


Seriously?
lol, yahoo will find itself unused for email whatsoever, and ive already rplaced their chat client with meebo.


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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 1:27:39 PM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdartist

Again TPEOwner, you have hit it square on the mark..and I also strongly resonate. In this context- a personals site, Ive spent too many months chasing that which wouldnt be caught. I'm starting to wonder if many women have strong submissive fantasies, but fear the reality of being one subconsciously, and sidestep any move to irl meet you or surrender with every defense and ruse imaginable, while refusing to acknowledge they are even doing so.

Good post. I learned. Thats 2.

TY
MGD



That part of your post needs to be writ large. No doubt there are some women that will meet but I bet they prove the rule. It only took one woman to prove to me that many so called submissive women on the internet are playing out their fantasies and when it comes to meeting in r/l will use every conceivable excuse in the book not to meet and when they run out of excuses, they simply turn the computer off.

I had my belly full of cock teasers at high school, I don't need them as an adult.

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 4:29:00 PM   
HatesParisHilton


Posts: 3513
Joined: 12/27/2006
Status: offline 		to be honest, out of the half dozen + people or so people I've been naughty with off the net, only 2 were from sites like this.  the others were from non-relationship non-sex sites.

So I think RE the OP that people sometimes "accidentally and unwittingly" lie to themselves.  The classic line "Sorry, I'm just not ready" comes to mind (and I know at least one GUY who's used that, not just women).

Translation:  "I'm just not ready to sleep with YOU."

The next day he/she might hook up with someone, suddenly "ready".

Were they lying to themselves?  Maybe.  Women seem to be very conditional in their reactions and sometimes it works in reverse: I met someone off the net whom just wanted to hang out as a fellow creative, her life was stressful and her libido at an all time low.  Agreement for "no sex", fine by me, my life was more complicated and stressful than hers right then, besides I had no idea what she looked like.

3 hours after meeting, chatting RE artsy crap and life in general, I was happily plunging her rectum, and according to her was the first to do so.  From her various reactions (all willing, all "happy", but clearly "this is REALLLLLLY different, wow") I'd say that was truthful.

But we had that agreement.

Did we lie to ourselves?

If so, on that day,  did it matter?





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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 7:53:18 PM   
mgdartist


Posts: 328
Joined: 5/13/2006
From: irving tx
Status: offline
quote:

The classic line "Sorry, I'm just not ready" comes to mind (and I know at least one GUY who's used that, not just women).


YR, youre just sayin that. I don't know any. given a nice enough lass....even paris hiton...lol


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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 8:04:37 PM   
bandit25


Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline 		Deleted cuz it just doesn't matter.  People are going to believe what they believe. 

< Message edited by bandit25 -- 1/4/2007 8:09:19 PM >

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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 8:55:00 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mgdartist

Again TPEOwner, you have hit it square on the mark..and I also strongly resonate. In this context- a personals site, Ive spent too many months chasing that which wouldnt be caught. I'm starting to wonder if many women have strong submissive fantasies, but fear the reality of being one subconsciously, and sidestep any move to irl meet you or surrender with every defense and ruse imaginable, while refusing to acknowledge they are even doing so.

Good post. I learned. Thats 2.

TY
MGD




I just love these ornate theories about how 'the women on this site' (and all their flaws and issues) are responsible for the fact that somebody can't get no.

Friend, if you aren't finding yourself in some reasonably high grade hookups (of whatever kinky type or kind you might prefer) within at most a few months of being on this site, you'd better be able to tell me you're living on that famous Antarctic ice shelf

... the one that broke loose and floated out to sea last year.

Otherwise I'd despair of you getting laid in a whorehouse with crisp new hundred dollar bills sticking out of each nostril.

They are fucking lined up and panting for it, brothers.

True, there is some kibble so foul it will chase even a hungry puppy from her dish. But I'm sure that can't apply to two such august personages as yourselves. That being the case, maybe you should put some of that immense psychological firepower into figuring out what it is about you that leads all these women to think you're so runawayfromable.

That's right. I said what it is about YOU, not THEM.

I ask you to imagine if you will--strictly in the interest of science--a hypothetical scenario in which all of the women the rest of us are getting and/or politely rejecting are not the fundamental cause of your lonliness.

If you can compose a sentence in English and then tie your two shoes so that they remain independant of one another I don't see how you can miss around here. Word. And that's speaking from the standpoint of someone who personally applies absurdly high standards only to meet (and enrich my life in the company of) women who exceed them!

These fields are ripe, amigos. The fruit is hanging low. You savvy?

I just can't even IMAGINE how much trim (etc.) a guy could corral around here if he were just looking to sample the goods.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I've had a few run away. Screaming, even. But not before I'd given them some good, tangible reasons--first hand, as it were. And I honestly think it was good for both of us, as the saying goes.

On the bright side, I'm sure you've both just improved your odds immensely with all the CM women harboring that delectable Whiner fetish, or that special kink for guys-with-raging-external-locus-of-control.

Now pardon me while I head over to BeachChat.com to read the threads about the immense difficulty of managing to get some sand in your trunks.



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RE: The ultimate lie - 1/4/2007 8:58:31 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I can't even begin to count how many women I've contacted, or who have contacted me, who are "seeking a real life relationship", but yet somehow never seem to meet anyone.  It starts with "I want to get to know you on line and build trust first", but then it goes on and on.


Who is at fault for letting it go on and on, them or you?  It comes down to this for me, if I want to manifest something in my life I take the steps necessary to make that happen. I used the internet as a tool to meet someone. I talked to many many people on a friendly level, I did not expect anything from them, and discouraged expectations relating to me because I had not met them. Perhaps you have too many expectations that set you up with disappointment? You feed into that disappointment for allowing yourself to be put in a situation that leads to it.

quote:

Afterwards, they convince themselves that whoever they were talking to wasn't what they really wanted.  He was too pushy, or too meek, or liked baseball, or whatever it takes to continue their lie to themselves that they are seeking a real life partner.  And they go to their munches or chat rooms to wail and complain that there are no good whatevers out there, and everyone is playing games.



I bet some of the men I talked to could say the same about me, they weren't what I was looking for. Perhaps they felt jipped by me and the time they spent writing me, but my intent was to meet the right person and be real life with that person. I was not playing them. Perhaps these women seriously do decide the person they are talking with is unsuitable for whatever reason.

quote:

But at some point, when you always seem to find a way to not do the thing you claim you want to, isn't it time to stop lying to yourself?  You may really, really believe you want to meet someone, but you also know you never will.  Life is just far too scary for you to handle, and better not to try than try and fail.  Ultimately, you have the right to waste your life.  What you don't have is the right to waste other people's time.  If you aren't going to meet anyone, put it on your profile.  Don't contact people who are seeking real life unless you make it clear that you are not.



I would ask who you are to judge whether or not someone is lying to themselves. What makes you qualified to do this? I could just as easily say that you must not really want a real life relationship because you keep attracting the people that do not want one either. We attract what we put our emotional energy into. Perhaps you believe the people you talk to are "fakes" "lying to themselves" or whatever other negative thing is only drawing that very sort of person to you. Perhaps if you expected to only attract people interested in a real life relationship that is the sort you would get?

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Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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