RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted

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Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:09:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy the total oil reserves in the Alaskan wilderness could supply the US oil needs for a week to ten days. Sinergy I'd love to see a source for this (I can't insist on a link, since I don't do those myself). My understanding is that even exploration has been pretty well blocked and we have no idea how much oil is there. If the oil industry didn't think there was enough to cover the extreme cost of exploration, extraction and transportation, followed by profit, it wouldn't be an issue. Your estimate strikes me as being a tad low. Or is snarkiness an STD? I have a tendency to get a bit metaphorical in my style of communication and often make the mistake of assuming that others are smart enough to pick up on that. Beyond the unknown quantity of ANWR, we also have the offshore deposits that cannot be tapped due to environmental restrictions and shale oil that cannot be refined without a tremendous environmental price. Nice beaches to surf on are obviously much more important than the lives of our troops as well. Fair enough. Read Al Franken's book "Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell" and peruse the bibliographical information in the back of it. (I did, I would post it but it is in my dock bag) We have lots of offshore oil reserves. Of course, most of these are currently being drilled by slant drilling methods from on-shore. Although the snarky comment about surfers is amusing. The major objections to off-shore oil drilling platforms comes from wealthy property owners (who probably voted for Bush) who bought an ocean view and dont want to have it spoiled by a derrick. What source do you have that the quantity of oil in ANWAR is unknown? It is not just the environmental price of extracting oil from shale. It is extremely expensive to drill. Sinergy

HerEmeraldEyes -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:09:55 PM)
I have to admit that I am a bit of a political moron. My master talks about politics all the time but I have a tendancy to get even something as simple as libertarian and liberty bell mixed up LOL I try to read these kinds of posts in an attempt to learn things. I however understand what war does to those that fight in it. My beloved uncle, who was like a second father to me, was in Vietnam. Out of his entire unit only he and my 4 other "uncles" came back. (friends of his that he spent the rest of his life with) Collectively they had came back with a fake eye, fake leg, and three missing fingers. For his entire life we (family) had to be careful how we woke him (from the door way, throwing shoes at him) because we never knew if he would lunge up as us screaming, his hands reaching for our necks. Uncle Toby (one of his unit "brothers") cried in his sleep because his own subconscious could not handle the amount of killing and attrocity they witnessed. I have a penchant for loving to take slaves that have been in or are in the military as subs/slaves (after all the military trains 'em sooo well :D :D ) A former submissive of mine came back about 14 months ago with a new plastic foot. He is will be 24 in a few months. He has nightmares too. Except his are of women shoving babies in his hands and him having to throw them to the ground for fear they would blow up in his face. He and others I know (I know many) have said nothing about a single Iraqi saying thank you - but of thrown rocks, spitting, and in some cases being urinated on. And then there are the returns home that have been told to me BY friends of mine that are just ordinary ground troops. Not "higher ups" but just the bullet proof vest boys used BY the higher ups . . . Of a group of men and women all returning home at the same time, in uniform, being accosted by Americans in airports - spit on, things thrown at them, and they are going home to cry in the night about the horrors they've seen. I am not listing a single personal war opinion. I will not state whether I am pro or anti war. But I do know what war does. Those it does not kill, wish it had. Thank you to EVERYONE who has posted their opinion here. Even those I do not agree with. It makes me glad that at least our freedom to say what we believe has not been destroyed yet. Lady Emerald (Edited after master found and pointed out spelling and proofreading errors.)

Zensee -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:15:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich Nice beaches to surf on are obviously much more important than the lives of our troops as well. How about leaving some wildlife besides rats and cockroaches for our grand children? How much is that worth? Z.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:16:49 PM)
You know, even though you will not go to links provided here, you could conceivably use google yourself and debunk him if you believe him wrong. I googled this and here is what wikipedia states about it, although there are differing opinions about how long this reserve would last. We use millions of gallons of oil a day here, the development of this region would not significantly help us, and like he mentions, it would take more energy to extract than would be gained, but it would certainly boost profits for the oil companies without significantly helping our energy security. Here is the thing, why not get away from fossils period? Fossils will be history, and so will our economy unless we get a clue and move on to other forms of energy independence. Here is the wikipedia link with outside links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy

Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:25:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HerEmeraldEyes I am not listing a single personal war opinion. I will not state whether I am pro or anti war. But I do know what war does. Those it does not kill, wish it had. My final thesis in college dealt with this issue, HerEmeraldEyes. Thank you for putting it so succinctly. Sinergy

WyrdRich -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:41:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy Read Al Franken's book "Lying Liars and the Lies They Tell" and peruse the bibliographical information in the back of it. (I did, I would post it but it is in my dock bag) I've never cared for Franken. Unfortunately, my complete lack of respect for his credibilty (not to mention his pathetic attempts at talk radio) is going to bleed over onto whatever sources he claims to have used. Got anything by Dennis Miller? We have lots of offshore oil reserves. Of course, most of these are currently being drilled by slant drilling methods from on-shore. Although the snarky comment about surfers is amusing. The major objections to off-shore oil drilling platforms comes from wealthy property owners (who probably voted for Bush) who bought an ocean view and dont want to have it spoiled by a derrick. And the wealthy don't surf? Please don't project the behavior of others onto me. Sliding the needle through at a shallow depth is a long way from snarky. I still have up-angle during the withdraw before I get to snarky. What source do you have that the quantity of oil in ANWAR is unknown? General readings, basic news stories at Yahoo or AOL, I suppose. And a logical leap that people don't go exploring when they already know. It is not just the environmental price of extracting oil from shale. It is extremely expensive to drill. Hehehehe... I imagine it would be incredibly expensive to drill. It is shale, a variety of rock commonly used for flagstones and patios. You quarry it, or mine it like coal. Sinergy 'Fraid I have that ugly alarm clock to deal with. Have a nice night.

Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:50:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyrdRich I've never cared for Franken. Unfortunately, my complete lack of respect for his credibilty (not to mention his pathetic attempts at talk radio) is going to bleed over onto whatever sources he claims to have used. Got anything by Dennis Miller? Thank you for the response Wyrdrich. I personally have 0 (zero, nil, none) interest in whether you like Al Franken. I asked you to review the bibliographical sources given in one of his books. On the other hand, you have previously stated that your approach is to state your opinions without bothering to back them up with empirical information, as well as to avoid researching information which might contradict your (not researched) opinion. Enjoy your sleep. Sinergy

WyrdRich -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 7:50:37 PM)
It's the video links I don't do Julia, for simple reasons of connection speed. I see 'youtube' and keep right on scrolling. Wiki and most others are no problem at all.

HerEmeraldEyes -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:00:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: HerEmeraldEyes I am not listing a single personal war opinion. I will not state whether I am pro or anti war. But I do know what war does. Those it does not kill, wish it had. My final thesis in college dealt with this issue, HerEmeraldEyes. Thank you for putting it so succinctly. Sinergy I'm sorry Sinergy, I am probably misunderstanding you. Which issue did your thesis deal with? (NOT being sarcastic) I am honestly interested

Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HerEmeraldEyes quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy quote: ORIGINAL: HerEmeraldEyes I am not listing a single personal war opinion. I will not state whether I am pro or anti war. But I do know what war does. Those it does not kill, wish it had. My final thesis in college dealt with this issue, HerEmeraldEyes. Thank you for putting it so succinctly. Sinergy I'm sorry Sinergy, I am probably misunderstanding you. Which issue did your thesis deal with? (NOT being sarcastic) I am honestly interested Thank you for asking, HerEmeraldEyes. My thesis dealt with the breakdown in initiation rituals in society, and dealt with the psychology behind male juveniles joining the military, joining gangs, engaging in dangerous behaviors, as a means of proving to society at large that they had transitioned from adolescence to adulthood. While I researched a lot of the ancillary issues, my degree is asian history with an emphasis on the Vietnam War (US policy towards Asia post World War 2). In order to prove my thesis, despite it not specifically dealing with their issues, was that I had to research extensively into the psychology of the people who returned from Vietnam and the sequelae of their involvement there. The grade I got was A+ with a note that it was ready for publication. Just me, etc. Sinergy

NaiveTempest -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:26:35 PM)
I was over there when the war first started so I did hear the thank yous. Nowadays though the spitting and such would not surprise me after all, the very people who are suppose to be "saving" them probably seem as bad as the terrorist they claim to be there to stop. I have worked at a brig and the Iraqi men (and men of other Islamic regions in the area) DID urinate, spit etc... And for us females that dared to be in the military, there was getting hit with the cup of semen or being flashed. I have many friends that have sleeping or other issues. I remember friends crying during the bombing, I remember losing eight members of our "family" to this damn war. I remember the "higher ups" running or cowering in fear and it have to be the regular soldier, sailor or marine that has to step up. I remember having to see those missiles coming in and feeling helpless. And I remember the scorn of the American public (that I still bump into on a regular basis) for being in the military. Hell, we're being warned not to go out in public in our uniforms as if our service is something to be ashamed of. I remember the counseling sessions (group and private) we still get. So some may see my actions as illegal and blast me, oh well and so be it. I don't mean you per say EmeraldEyes. I joined before this war and before 9/11 and I joined for a reason that is still valid to me. No matter what I say, people will always find some way to blast it. I'm prepared to accept that so go ahead and blast away if it makes you feel good. I've heard a quote before that went something along these lines. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it." So hang me already.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:34:44 PM)
quote: And I remember the scorn of the American public (that I still bump into on a regular basis) for being in the military. Hell, we're being warned not to go out in public in our uniforms as if our service is something to be ashamed of. I remember the counseling sessions (group and private) we still get. In my community there are yellow ribbons bedecking tree after tree after tree. That is not the sentiment in my neck of the woods. I do not know who talked crap to you, but from my perspective most people love our men and women in uniform and love you all dearly, and sometimes we cry when we see what you have had to deal with (at least I do, and my Daddy has seen it, as I have seen him do the same when speaking about what is happening over there). I want our people to get the best of everything, that is supposed to be our commitment to you, and we are failing you miserably... not us, but those who have been elected to the government. I plan on keeping the pressure up to get our men and women in uniform medical services and other benefits they were promised. My uncle has a Purple Heart from Vietnam. Many people have loved ones that have served in war.

MzMia -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:40:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NaiveTempest I was over there when the war first started so I did hear the thank yous. Nowadays though the spitting and such would not surprise me after all, the very people who are suppose to be "saving" them probably seem as bad as the terrorist they claim to be there to stop. I have worked at a brig and the Iraqi men (and men of other Islamic regions in the area) DID urinate, spit etc... And for us females that dared to be in the military, there was getting hit with the cup of semen or being flashed. I have many friends that have sleeping or other issues. I remember friends crying during the bombing, I remember losing eight members of our "family" to this damn war. I remember the "higher ups" running or cowering in fear and it have to be the regular soldier, sailor or marine that has to step up. I remember having to see those missiles coming in and feeling helpless. And I remember the scorn of the American public (that I still bump into on a regular basis) for being in the military. Hell, we're being warned not to go out in public in our uniforms as if our service is something to be ashamed of. I remember the counseling sessions (group and private) we still get. So some may see my actions as illegal and blast me, oh well and so be it. I don't mean you per say EmeraldEyes. I joined before this war and before 9/11 and I joined for a reason that is still valid to me. No matter what I say, people will always find some way to blast it. I'm prepared to accept that so go ahead and blast away if it makes you feel good. I've heard a quote before that went something along these lines. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it." So hang me already. My heart and thanks go out to you for serving our country. NOW, I do not support this "war" and I protested in D.C. MONTHS before it even started as I did years ago with Daddy Bush. I am proud of the buttons I got from both protests. That said, you can support the troops 100% and not support this war or the reasons we are there. My heart goes out to each and every one of you, I save the Post when it shows the pictures of those that have been killed over there. My heart goes out to each and every family that has lost someone. My father served in Vietnam TWICE and he does NOT support this war. MANY Vietnam vets do not support this war. AGAIN, you can love your country and support the troops and NOT support or believe in the Commander in Charge. GOD BLESS you for serving your country, where would we be without you?

Sinergy -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 8:43:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NaiveTempest I was over there when the war first started so I did hear the thank yous. Nowadays though the spitting and such would not surprise me after all, the very people who are suppose to be "saving" them probably seem as bad as the terrorist they claim to be there to stop. I have worked at a brig and the Iraqi men (and men of other Islamic regions in the area) DID urinate, spit etc... And for us females that dared to be in the military, there was getting hit with the cup of semen or being flashed. I have many friends that have sleeping or other issues. I remember friends crying during the bombing, I remember losing eight members of our "family" to this damn war. I remember the "higher ups" running or cowering in fear and it have to be the regular soldier, sailor or marine that has to step up. I remember having to see those missiles coming in and feeling helpless. And I remember the scorn of the American public (that I still bump into on a regular basis) for being in the military. Hell, we're being warned not to go out in public in our uniforms as if our service is something to be ashamed of. I remember the counseling sessions (group and private) we still get. So some may see my actions as illegal and blast me, oh well and so be it. I don't mean you per say EmeraldEyes. I joined before this war and before 9/11 and I joined for a reason that is still valid to me. No matter what I say, people will always find some way to blast it. I'm prepared to accept that so go ahead and blast away if it makes you feel good. I've heard a quote before that went something along these lines. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight for your right to say it." So hang me already. Whether you were involved in the war shortly after Dien Bien Phu, or shortly after Nixon carpet bombed the country into a lifeless moonscape, I would like to make it clear that I have no issue with you going there and doing your job. I have an issue with those who ordered you to do it, but the complexities involved in that entire time period make me unlikely to even blame those in charge. I am glad you came home in one piece. Sinergy

Sincere2serve -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 9:45:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia [ NOW, I do not support this "war" and I protested in D.C. MONTHS before it even started as I did years ago with Daddy Bush. I am proud of the buttons I got from both protests. That said, you can support the troops 100% and not support this war or the reasons we are there. AGAIN, you can love your country and support the troops and NOT support or believe in the Commander in Charge. GOD BLESS you for serving your country, where would we be without you? That is an intellectual fallacy that you can support the troops while giving aid to the enemy in your protests. Supporting the troops IS supporting their cause not weakening them by supporting our enemy. You give great moral support to the islamic terrorists when they see your protests. You weaken the political will to do what it takes to win, our boys are dying because of politically correct 'rules of engagement". With the media, democrats, and protesters doing everything they can to cause us to lose our boys still know BS from reality. The reality is if we lose there, the relgion of death(islam) gains a huge victory. You'd soon see bombs going off in a shopping mall near you. Those that keep saying there was no reason to go to Iraq are of the same moral fiber as people that look the other way during a gang rape in a NY alleyway in the middle of the day.

juliaoceania -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 10:19:23 PM)
quote: Those that keep saying there was no reason to go to Iraq are of the same moral fiber as people that look the other way during a gang rape in a NY alleyway in the middle of the day. Sometimes I am in awe of the inner workings of the Neoconservative mind, how does so much irrationality exist between two ears, all I can say is wow.

SubNY278 -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 10:31:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sincere2serve quote: ORIGINAL: MzMia [ NOW, I do not support this "war" and I protested in D.C. MONTHS before it even started as I did years ago with Daddy Bush. I am proud of the buttons I got from both protests. That said, you can support the troops 100% and not support this war or the reasons we are there. AGAIN, you can love your country and support the troops and NOT support or believe in the Commander in Charge. GOD BLESS you for serving your country, where would we be without you? That is an intellectual fallacy that you can support the troops while giving aid to the enemy in your protests. Supporting the troops IS supporting their cause not weakening them by supporting our enemy. You give great moral support to the islamic terrorists when they see your protests. You weaken the political will to do what it takes to win, our boys are dying because of politically correct 'rules of engagement". With the media, democrats, and protesters doing everything they can to cause us to lose our boys still know BS from reality. The reality is if we lose there, the relgion of death(islam) gains a huge victory. You'd soon see bombs going off in a shopping mall near you. Those that keep saying there was no reason to go to Iraq are of the same moral fiber as people that look the other way during a gang rape in a NY alleyway in the middle of the day. No, actually, when we protest, it is the sign of a healthy democracy, a sign that our liberties and freedoms still exist (at least, to an extent). Blindly following our "leaders" and agreeing with any war or political action they declare and blindly agreeing with any decision they make regarding our nation's troops is more akin to the type of dictatorial, hierarchical society you seem to be so terrified of. The troops that are over in Iraq have also increasingly begun questioning their own presence there. Perhaps that would alert you to some of the inherent problems with this "war," unless you wish to imply that those soldiers are also aiding and abetting the "terrorists." As to your last comment, you haven't ever actually been to New York, have you? You really think that's what goes on here in every back alley. Amazing.

Sincere2serve -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 11:08:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: Those that keep saying there was no reason to go to Iraq are of the same moral fiber as people that look the other way during a gang rape in a NY alleyway in the middle of the day. Sometimes I am in awe of the inner workings of the Neoconservative mind, how does so much irrationality exist between two ears, all I can say is wow. Standard liberalism is a mental disease symptom there. When confronted by reality resort to name calling because you have no arguement. Please do explain how your protests, and comments which headline Al jazera TV and websites support our troops? How many million more did Saddam need to kill before your 'rationality' could see the need to stop him? Let me guess you think Vietnam was wrong too? Get a head count of the dead (after the Americans left) in the gentle hands of your fellow liberals? 5 million dead between vietnam and cambodia. Good job on those protests!! You protest the killing of murders while cheering the killing of babies in the womb and your calling conservatives irrational? Up the meds!

Zensee -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/7/2007 11:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sincere2serve *Standard liberalism* is a *mental disease* symptom there. When confronted by reality resort to *name calling* because you have no arguement. Wow! One thin post exceeds my recommended daily dose of irony. Z.

meatcleaver -> RE: Pelosi warns Bush: Troop surge won't be accepted (1/8/2007 12:09:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sincere2serve Please do explain how your protests, and comments which headline Al jazera TV and websites support our troops? How many million more did Saddam need to kill before your 'rationality' could see the need to stop him? Let me guess you think Vietnam was wrong too? Get a head count of the dead (after the Americans left) in the gentle hands of your fellow liberals? 5 million dead between vietnam and cambodia. Good job on those protests!! You protest the killing of murders while cheering the killing of babies in the womb and your calling conservatives irrational? Up the meds! OK. Now tell us all you are joking because if we weren't talking about war I would piss my pants. Of course Vietnam was wrong, most intelligent people saw that at the time and Pol Pot came to power because the US carpet bombed Cambodia! Which is why Kissenger is considered a war criminal in most parts of the 'civilised' world. Not wanting to defend Saddam but probably more Iraqis have probably died due to the American led invasion than were probably killed by Saddam. Two wrongs don't make a right springs to mind. It has been pointed out many a time, that if the US was really interested in saving people from dictatorships they would have invaded a few other countries that they are happy to do business with.

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