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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 10:25:54 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I went to my first club last month. I think maybe compared to most it is quite small, there were only around 30 people there. The dungeon masters were great in my opinion. I had a guided tour of the club with instructions on how to use certain pieces of equipment, he gave me the rules of the club and even took some pics of me chained to a wall as a souveneir of my first visit. I was told should i have any problems what so ever to find a DM and they would help me. He also said that he would be wandering around at all times so should i be unable for any reason to go find help someone would not be far away. Now admittedly i did not play in the club but i did observe said Dms wandering around the club keeping an eye on things and offering advice. They even sought me out at the end of the night to make sure i had enjoyed my visit etc.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 10:36:39 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not buy that shit. Surely she could have made better decisions, but that in no way excuses the top for not making sure she was ok after making her into a pin cushion. It in no way excuses those around her if she was passed out on the floor and no one cared to even check if she was ok or needed medical attention. I would not leave anyone passed out on the floor... uncaring, unfeeling... and then blame them for it.

Call this submissive whatever you will, but that is not the issue in my mind. I guess I am from a small little town bordering Yosemite National Park... you just do not treat people like that no matter how "stupid" they are. How many hikers have been idiots and lost their way along the trails of the Sierras where I grew up? I lost count... we still sent search and rescue after them.

I haven't seen anyone "blaming the victim."  We are, however, trying to keep responsibility where it does and does not apply.  You can't blame the DM for what only the bottom can be reasonably responsible for any more than you can blame the bottom for what the top can be reasonably responsible for.

If I saw someone passed out on the floor in a non-scene area, I personally would look around to see if anyone was attending to them already, and, if not, call for a DM and go over to check on them myself.  If I saw someone passed out on the floor in a scene area, I'd likely walk right by them, because I've known plenty of people to pass out during scenes (heck I've done it myself) and be left alone for a minute or two. 

In my years of experience, there are plenty of doofuses in a dungeon, and some of those doofuses will be known as "Well Known Experienced Dominants."  But as far as actual dangerous people, or people not caring about things when there truly is something suspicious going on- I've only ever seen positive and immediate responses, sometimes to the point of too much!

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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 10:40:53 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

FR

Here is the deal, this whole discussion reminds me of incidents where someone is gang raped because they get drunk and passed out. Well it is her fault because she drank so much, and it is her fault because she did not know whom she was drinking with, and ... and .. and .. and...

I do not buy that shit. Surely she could have made better decisions, but that in no way excuses the top for not making sure she was ok after making her into a pin cushion. It in no way excuses those around her if she was passed out on the floor and no one cared to even check if she was ok or needed medical attention. I would not leave anyone passed out on the floor... uncaring, unfeeling... and then blame them for it.

Call this submissive whatever you will, but that is not the issue in my mind. I guess I am from a small little town bordering Yosemite National Park... you just do not treat people like that no matter how "stupid" they are. How many hikers have been idiots and lost their way along the trails of the Sierras where I grew up? I lost count... we still sent search and rescue after them.

I'm thinking us saying she did not use good judgment vs she got what she deserved is very different.
The person in the OP is saying the sub was a blameless victim, the Dom was just a tool and all of this is all the DM's fault.
That's why it seems we're blaming her, because the OP's blaming the wrong person and we're trying to explain where the responsibility lies.
I mean in your example if a person got lost in the woods and blamed it on those that forged the path and took no responsibility themselves what would you think?
I don't agree she should have been left alone, but I also don't agree she didn't ask for assistance if she felt she needed it.

I still say as long as the DM helped her when she fainted he did his job.
"You are sent to the kitchen. You are left in a room full of people you dont know to get out of sub space.  You crash hard, and faint out.  Some one comes to check you.   You think its the DM, but you cant tell because you are fairly new to the scene."
No one left her lost in the woods once she fainted and they saw her need.
I do indeed feel pity and anger over the treatment of this girl for her, but none the less she did play a role in her demise and we shouldn't just over look that and coddle her should we?
How's she going to learn to be responsible for her self if her errors are not also mentioned.
Hell if I left my apt unlocked and my door standing wide open then someone or a group of guys came in and raped me I would indeed carry some of the weight of responsibility in that wouldn't I?
If she was my friend I would not have blamed her harshly, I would have helped her use this bad scene as a reminder of why picking good partners and communication is essential before a scene.
In my opinion I don't think the Dom held up his responsibility to her either but based on the circumstances I think he was a selfish ass more than a predator here.
suzanne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 10:55:32 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

In my years of experience, there are plenty of doofuses in a dungeon, and some of those doofuses will be known as "Well Known Experienced Dominants."  But as far as actual dangerous people, or people not caring about things when there truly is something suspicious going on- I've only ever seen positive and immediate responses, sometimes to the point of too much!


The entire story struck me as being very high school jock-like. Threatening girls that want to tell on them for outrageous behavior. It really sits wrong with me. I do not know if the story is even true, or which side is true. But the description of her having to make her way to the bathroom and fainting is pretty pathetic. I have almost passed out before myself from play, and I cannot imagine having it happen the way that was described. I wonder how young this submissive is, because sense often comes with age, and the young often do not have experience to give them sense.

I mentioned this story to Sinergy over the phone because it bothered me, he has never seen the like of it before, and would help someone if they needed it too. I do not know where the DM was when this girl passed out, or what steps were taken to help her afterwards... I do not blame the DM because in the OP this was the way it was described

quote:

My question to this story is this....   What sort of DMs and what sort of care is going on in a Dungeon like this?    Why didnt the person who saw the sub crash to the ground go get the DM?   Did that person think to go get the DM, or was that person the DM?     When something like this happens in a public-type play party, should everyone pretend that this didn't happen?   Because the Top is "well known" should all parties who witnessed this event keep their mouths shut?        Or have I just been out of the party scene for too long and THIS is the way parties are now held?   



The OP does not know the answer. It is hard to judge the DM if the DM was not informed.

My response was who helped her at all? And yes I think the top she played with owed it to her to make sure she was ok. If I get someone drunk, let them drive away from my home I am legally liable if they have a wreck. 

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(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:00:15 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Hell if I left my apt unlocked and my door standing wide open then someone or a group of guys came in and raped me I would indeed carry some of the weight of responsibility in that wouldn't I?


No you would not, leaving your door open and unlocked is not an invitation to be raped. Wearing a mini skirt is not an invitation to be raped. There is no way a woman just going about her daily business asked for it. But that is just my opinion.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:02:31 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I mean in your example if a person got lost in the woods and blamed it on those that forged the path and took no responsibility themselves what would you think?


No, it would be like someone leading a novice hiker into the deep forest and leaving them to find their own way back after dark without a trail to go by (I am speaking of the top)

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:09:43 AM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Hell if I left my apt unlocked and my door standing wide open then someone or a group of guys came in and raped me I would indeed carry some of the weight of responsibility in that wouldn't I?


No you would not, leaving your door open and unlocked is not an invitation to be raped. Wearing a mini skirt is not an invitation to be raped. There is no way a woman just going about her daily business asked for it. But that is just my opinion.

I did not say it gave them the right, just that I AM first and formost responsible to protect myself from harm.
If I don't lock my door I LEAVE MYSELF open to lots of things coming in I may not like.
It is (in this hypothetical instance) not my fault I was raped, but my responsibility for not doing what I needed to do to prevent that.
Protecting the self is our responsibility before any one elses once we are adults.

quote:

I mentioned this story to Sinergy over the phone because it bothered me, he has never seen the like of it before, and would help someone if they needed it too. I do not know where the DM was when this girl passed out, or what steps were taken to help her afterwards... I do not blame the DM because in the OP this was the way it was described

in my post you saw as you discussed it in your last message I showed you SHE DID have help once she passed out.
Here it is again as you must have missed the couple of times it's in the thread already.

"You are sent to the kitchen. You are left in a room full of people you dont know to get out of sub space.  You crash hard, and faint out.  Some one comes to check you.   You think its the DM, but you cant tell because you are fairly new to the scene."
Once the people in the dungeon were aware she was not OK they did do something.
No one left her passed out on the bathroom floor and I'm not sure where you got that from as it's not this thread.
suzanne

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:34:08 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

in my post you saw as you discussed it in your last message I showed you SHE DID have help once she passed out.
Here it is again as you must have missed the couple of times it's in the thread already.


'I was responding to LA and what she said about responding to people, if you felt I was addressing your points of the OP, I was not

quote:

did not say it gave them the right, just that I AM first and formost responsible to protect myself from harm.
If I don't lock my door I LEAVE MYSELF open to lots of things coming in I may not like.
It is (in this hypothetical instance) not my fault I was raped, but my responsibility for not doing what I needed to do to prevent that.
Protecting the self is our responsibility before any one elses once we are adults


Responsibility denotes "fault" in a legal sense. So when you term a "responsibility" then I see it in the light a judge and jury would. If the victim bears some responsibility, then the perps are less culpable for the crime of rape. I often do not lock my doors in broad daylight, I have never been raped, and if I was I would not feel the least bit responsible for "letting it happen". I do watch where I am going, I do protect myself, but I do not feel in the least bit responsible for the actions of others intent on harming me. My Daddy calls it "target denial", and we should keep ourselves safe, but that does not give us responsibility for the actions of others.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:42:26 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		We are in agreement- no matter how stupid or idiotic or naive this woman acted, there is no justification for someone treating her badly.

However, I'm more against the suggestion that because this woman had this particular bad experience, that you are concluding that public play is unsafe, and without people who care or will help in a bad situation.  That's certainly not the case in my experience. 

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 11:55:26 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		But the difference julia is that the bottom consented to the scene.
She knew it was going to be needles (WTF a newbie is doing negotiating a needle scene right off the bat I don't know)
She walked away under her own power and returned even walked to the kitchen under her own power, Guessing from my own observations that means at least 10 minutes of being casually observed.

The big mistake here is the same one we all so often face especially here online, In the immortal ords of some people's hero
"That depends on what your definition of is is"

If well taken care of means a phone call the next day then damnit say so during negotiations not the next day bitching about it online to your freinds who were not there to see for themselves.
If well taken care of means I'll make sure you can walk and talk on your own before I am through with the scene, then say so, so they don't expect that u're going to keep your attention on them for 6 hours post scene just to be sure they don't trip over their cool down blanket on the way to their car.

Why is it that folks can't seem to communicate actual ideas when they negotiate instead of spouting off meaningless drivel?????
"Well taken care of" Amazing that the slave/ submissive definitions are individual folks don't jump all over this idea instead. It sure as hell is more important. So long as negtiations were happening the onus or respopnsibility is on both parties to comunicate, and failure of that communication lies with both parties not one or the other.



(in reply to onestandingstill)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 12:21:02 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

But the difference julia is that the bottom consented to the scene.
She knew it was going to be needles (WTF a newbie is doing negotiating a needle scene right off the bat I don't know)
She walked away under her own power and returned even walked to the kitchen under her own power, Guessing from my own observations that means at least 10 minutes of being casually observed.

The big mistake here is the same one we all so often face especially here online, In the immortal ords of some people's hero
"That depends on what your definition of is is"

If well taken care of means a phone call the next day then damnit say so during negotiations not the next day bitching about it online to your friends who were not there to see for themselves.
If well taken care of means I'll make sure you can walk and talk on your own before I am through with the scene, then say so, so they don't expect that You're going to keep your attention on them for 6 hours post scene just to be sure they don't trip over their cool down blanket on the way to their car.

Why is it that folks can't seem to communicate actual ideas when they negotiate instead of spouting off meaningless drivel?????
"Well taken care of" Amazing that the slave/ submissive definitions are individual folks don't jump all over this idea instead. It sure as hell is more important. So long as negotiations were happening the onus or responsibility is on both parties to communicate, and failure of that communication lies with both parties not one or the other.

and from Lucky Albatross

We are in agreement- no matter how stupid or idiotic or naive this woman acted, there is no justification for someone treating her badly.

However, I'm more against the suggestion that because this woman had this particular bad experience, that you are concluding that public play is unsafe, and without people who care or will help in a bad situation.  That's certainly not the case in my experience. 


I agree with both of these posts.

julie,
I think you and I do agree, I just see it a little different than you do.
If I go to bed leaving my door not only unlocked, but wide open I get what I get.
The OP's example is to me like if she went to a swinger club and consented to sex then decided it was rape as she didn't like what he did, not that she was minding her own business and the guy blindsided her and raped her.


Granted I feel for her, but I do wonder what the hell she was doing consenting to thinks she knew nothing about with none of her friends around and no clear communications of her expectations before hand.

In all the OP wanted to blame the DM, that's just not where the fault lies in the proposed scenario.
suzanne


(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 12:51:36 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		This is a fast reply:.

I'm a masochist not a sadist (but sometimes theres a fine line there)..and Im a bottom not a top (but sometimes theres a fine line there). I've played in dungeons many moons ago so can't give an educated opionion about if and how things have changed.....but more to the point..I think I have basic common sense...this is how I feel about the different aspects you wrote about.

No matter what occurred in the initial negotiations, its the bottoms responsibility to assess whether the "top" is ok to play with. Afterall interpretations of what people "say" can be varied. I put no blame on the top for anything he "said" or "promised".

quote:

Its a needle scene. Its your first intense scene.  The pain is far greater than you think it will be, but you grit your teeth and take it. You are afraid that if you stop that you will let down this "well known" Top, and you dont want to make the Top look bad.  

Needeplay has never been considered "painful" play by me, its a creative space mostly..."if" I was a sadist, I would find it highly amusing for a bottom to be freaking out about it...and I would continue...knowing they agreed to the "scene" and haven't told me to "stop". Again it was the bottoms fault for not putting a stop to it for whatever reason she imagines.

quote:

 The play is intense, but in the middle of the play you have to pee really bad.   You ask to pee, and the Top says "Gee.. I think I should take out the needles because you might fall." ..... You pee, come back to find out the Top has totally cleaned up the area.  The Top has quit.   
 

If I was the top, I woulda done the same thing, I'd be kinda pissed the stupid bottom didnt pee before we started (scus the pun).

quote:

You are afraid that if you stop that you will let down this "well known" Top, and you dont want to make the Top look bad. 


More to the point, she probably didnt want to make herself look bad in her own mind...if a bottom stops a scene...no one "looks bad"...if anyone feels bad its their own personal bag of personal dilemmas....its an acccepted thing that some scenes stop.

< Message edited by slavejali -- 1/8/2007 1:09:54 PM >

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(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 1:14:42 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:

You go to a dungeon and meet a Top..........<you scene> ....The Top doesnt call or talk to you in days. 


I've scened with a top and never spoken to them again 10 minutes after the scene.

Anyhow..I basically just wanted to give an alternative viewpoint..after-all..we are only getting the story of the bottom...from a third party...and god knows where the truth lays...I've meet some really clingy stupid newbies who think just because someone scenes with them that somehow this entitles them to an ongoing relationship....and warp everything outa reality to suit their own purposes... and they do need to "snap outa it".

Not every Doms/Tops a "daddy" or "mommy" Dom/Tops..there are some real sadistic bastards out there..she should have made a more informed choice of play partners that suited her emotional/psychological needy needs. Don't play with the big boys if you can't handle it.

We are adults afterall....

Edited to add some //////slashes//// lol

< Message edited by slavejali -- 1/8/2007 1:55:04 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 1:46:52 PM   
Wildfleurs


Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMean

My question to this story is this....   What sort of DMs and what sort of care is going on in a Dungeon like this?    Why didnt the person who saw the sub crash to the ground go get the DM?   Did that person think to go get the DM, or was that person the DM?     When something like this happens in a public-type play party, should everyone pretend that this didn't happen?   Because the Top is "well known" should all parties who witnessed this event keep their mouths shut?        Or have I just been out of the party scene for too long and THIS is the way parties are now held?



I think if you are completely and accurately describing what happened then the top is an asshole, but that’s about it.  I don’t think it’s the place of the DMs to interfere in a bad (but not damaging) scene.  I’ve DM’d at events and the role of the dungeon monitor is to make sure that the participants adhere to the rules of the party.  Now unless the rules of the party stated that all tops are supposed to provide comprehensive and satisfactory (to both parties) aftercare, then the top did not violate any of the party rules.  And thus there is really no place for the DM’s unless they are being nosey busybodies.

quote:



I must be old.  I went to parties in the hey-day of Jay Wiseman's SM101 "SAFE SANE AND CONSENSUAL" play.  Currently this Top tells the sub that "this is the way leathermen play today."    Humm... Why does this not pass My "smells bad" test?   Am I the only Old School Domme who feels this way?  Is this what subs accept today as "good Sadistic play?"



Nothings changed and it has nothing to do with being an “old school” dominant.  There have always been assholes and there always will be.  When I was single and played casually I always had a friend watch out for what was happening and could also be there to watch after me after a scene if need be.  The single bottom that this happened to should seriously consider having that mechanism in place as well as more clearly and specifically defining and negotiating aftercare in the future since it seems to be so important to them.

C~


_____________________________

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(in reply to MissMean)
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RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 2:04:30 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		You said it yourself.  This bottom did not approach the DM for help.  The bottom wallowed, drooped, then complained after the fact.  Dang it, if people are adult enough to do this, newbie or not, they should take some responsibility in asking for help.  Many people do, droop, sit things out, or look out of it after a scene.  That may be a natural reaction.  I know it is with me. Have you ever seen a fainting goat?  I drop!  But if I have the forbearance to take a potty break than I have the voice in me also to ask for orange juice or chocolate, or a hand to hold while I reset myself.
The top business aside, if people are going to do this they should also be aware that they take some responsibility for the choice they made.  Needles? Whips?  If you don't know if you can handle it, better make sure that people KNOW you may want lots of cuddling after.
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: MissMean 

This was just the very tip of the scene with the Top.  There were other actions and statements made that were far more inflamitory.   My questions are about the actions of the DM.    When a DM or someone at a party sees someone literally crash to the floor do they say anything?  Does anyone, other than the Top, who is not in the room when the sub falls, check on this person?  
 



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to MissMean)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 2:08:13 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Julia,

By your own admittance, you have never been to a public S&M event.  I have spent years attending them, hosting them, even owning a public play space. 

What you hear as many of us "blaming the victim" is something completely different.  We see patterns, there isn't much new that goes on. 

The job of a DM is to make sure people obey the rules which are usually a refined version of don't leave body fluids for others to step in and don't kill anyone PERIOD.

There are submissives who are always getting their limits violated, I pay attention the first couple times, after that, who the hell cares?  There are dominants who leave some sort of trail in their wake, I tend to leave broken hearts.

When people post "experiences" they slant them, conciiously or unconsciously.  After years of experience, plus the intuition that makes me a formidible dominant, I can read a great deal between the lines.  In this case I think there is more between the lines than in them.  In fact, this smells to me of something that happened to a "friend" as in the OP is about the OP.

(in reply to Wildfleurs)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are Dom's really keeping ... - 1/8/2007 2:28:43 PM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		For my knowledge their are different groups.
Each with their own way of dealing with these things.
A group mentality as it were.

Some have a hard shelled demeanor and keep to the part.
If it were me I would have at least helped you up and talk to you for awhile.

Gotten to know you and maybe take some of your blood onto my hand, then suck it off my finger tips.

Depending if it was a party were every one is checked first and only allowed to come and play after screening.

Even then its not to safe, but hell i,m old fashioned.

Ask if you wanted a ride home.
If you were OK, then if you didn't and you were.
I,d help wipe you off ,and smack your ass telling you to get back to it.

< Message edited by MasDom -- 1/8/2007 2:32:14 PM >

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are Dom's really keeping ... - 1/8/2007 3:04:32 PM   
windchymes


Posts: 9410
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline 		Maybe the DM was in another part of the house dealing with other issues?  It sounds to me like a series of unfortunate events that happened to the bottom, but it doesn't sound like a reason to nail the DM's balls to the wall.  Sometimes stuff happens.  Hopefully, the bottom can use this as an object lesson and not make that mistake again.  Hopefully.

_____________________________

You know it's going to be a GOOD blow job when she puts a Breathe Right strip on first.

Pick-up artists and garbage men should trade names.

(in reply to MasDom)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are DM's really keeping p... - 1/8/2007 3:17:51 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		~Fast Reply~

Having read through this, I feel the DM should only done anything once the sub was found passed out. A DM can not be responsible for the emotional well-being of every single person there. She crashed hard, that really sucks. She should tell the top that she thought aftercare was implied/promised and that he might want to be more specific in the future. If she really did pass out, then she should have been wrapped in blankets and perhaps taken to the hospital. Other then that, what do you want the DM to do? She didn't call red, she didn't call mayday, she didn't say "FUCK STOP NOW!"

She consented to take more then she should have and she decided to do something to end the scene. Yes, it really really sucks that this person was such a bad top to her. But even a novice should know that when you are going to let someone stick needles in you, you should know inquire as to aftercare. If you are so new that you don't know, that probably isn't the best time for you to experimenting with things that draw blood because you probably also don't know to make sure everything is clean and safe.

Bottom line: Yes, this situation sucks. But the DM is there to make sure everything is safe and consentual. They aren't all-knowing. She was evidently found and taken care of physically, though not in all that great of a manner. I don't think you can fault the DM here.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Safe sane and consensual? Are Dom's really keeping ... - 1/8/2007 3:19:42 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		There were a bunch of things that it looks like neither bottom or top discussed. For the record, I know a number of subs/slaves/bottom whose idea of after care is to leave them alone. Obviously, expectations and limits were not well discussed. The Top is obviously fine with how it worked out, the sub obviously has expectations that should have been pointed out. So many issues here could have been solved  by simply asking questions. As far as the no contact part: they negotiated a one time scene. Neither has the obligation to contact the other.

Next: since when is it the DM's responsibility to enforce after care?

So, the moral of the story is....there is more to scene negotation than "Hi, wanna play?"

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to windchymes)
Profile   Post #: 40
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