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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 12:55:50 PM   
valeca


Posts: 403
Joined: 1/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If we are to believe that SM is about tapping into the primal emotions and that emotions are a viable part then all emotions seem to me to be equally viable as a part of SM. That is not to say that some emotions dont require more or different precautions. Different emotions different risks.


This made the most sense to me, but it could be because my particular brand of s/m relationship is deeply entwinded with my marriage to Master.  The entire spectrum of human emotions is a part of that relationship, not just the positive ones.  If we've found the level of trust between us to handle allowing anger to be a part of our s/m relationship, who is anyone to tell us otherwise?


_____________________________

~valeca, Owned and Operated by Loraith.

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 12:57:37 PM   
LordVelvet


Posts: 311
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline 		julia,
    I was not talking about hitting a slave or submissive out of anger towards them. I was was talking about having anger from work and beating My sub til the anger was gone. Two very different things to Me.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 12:58:06 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
I do not see it as having a place in what we do. My Daddy's first submissive always attempted to piss him off so he would angrily beat her, but that was not his thing. I do not get off on him being mad when he hits me. I do not even get remotely aroused by that idea.

I don't get off on THAT at all- that's just manipulative passive aggressive crap that is.

I also don't get off on them being mad or angry AT ME in the play, unless we're doing some mutual force/primal play thing.

However, anger and high intensity emotions can occur IN the scene, or be taken out ON me in the scene and I can process that very well.

Us youngsters can get a few things right at least. ;)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 12:59:18 PM   
aslaveflower


Posts: 14
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Personally,
There have been times when i have seen my Master hold back from punishing me physically, because He knew He would really hurt me. i love Him more for this.
The times that He has whipped me hard in punishment,  it was carried out when He was calm and in control.
There was only one time that i saw Him actually whip a slave in anger. It was very hard to watch, but she challenged Him eye to eye, as if to test to see what He was made of. He didn't yell at her or go into a rage, but His tone was an angry one as He chastized her for her behaviour. After it was done, for the first time i understood how hard it is for Him to discipline at times, that it hurts Him to do so and how much strength it takes to carry it out. It was the look on His face afterwards. It hurt me to see Him so upset. For a Master who truly loves His girl(s), punishment truly is a difficult but necessary thing.
Does anger belong though? i think to be honest, it truly depends on what has been done. Anger will be present i think no matter what, if the slave has done something that would cause a MAster to feel this way.
Without doubt, i think there should always be a cooling off period before any punishment is to take place. To me this just makes sense. That being said, it doesnt mean a slave will get it any easier, as i have found out from experience.
.....but then i guess i am addressing a whole different thing here...as i am not speaking of anger within S&M play...still..just a thought :)

< Message edited by aslaveflower -- 1/9/2007 1:07:54 PM >

(in reply to SirDominic)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 2:10:05 PM   
Mastermind70


Posts: 11
Joined: 11/14/2006
Status: offline 		While I would like to live under the delusion that I never strike a lovely little play thing in anger I would be only fooling myself. While very controlled I think anyone that uses or has used corporal punishment has on some level hit while angry. So I have to agree its of extreme importance that any anger brought to a scene is under full control but is permissible.
One example of many  from my past that come to mind is a former slave who was having reoccurring bladder infections. Trying to take care of her I told her to make a Doctors appointment within x number of days which she did not follow through with. After she did go and recovered from the infection she was soundly punished and until that punishment took place I was......angry over the entire incident but in complete control.
Excellent topic btw this should be a very interesting read in the end
Jeffery


_____________________________

To err is human, to disipline for it noble, but to relish that disipline is divine...

(in reply to aslaveflower)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 2:34:21 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		General Reply:

What I'd like to know (from anyone who cares to answer) Is do you SM anger advocates actually want to feel anger so that you can have an "anger scene"?   Or is scening while you're angry just incidental at times?

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marie.


I give good agita.









(in reply to Mastermind70)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 2:38:39 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
General Reply:

What I'd like to know (from anyone who cares to answer) Is do you SM anger advocates actually want to feel anger so that you can have an "anger scene"?   Or is scening while you're angry just incidental at times?

Yes to both.  Sometimes I want it, sometimes it's just where the energy is.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 2:48:35 PM   
Siona


Posts: 242
Joined: 10/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

Those of us who will not be hit when the top is angry are those of us who have had the unhappy experience(s) of being with someone who used anger as a reason to get out of control and bully, or even abuse, anyone weaker.

Nothing different here than the man who goes home and backhands his wife because dinner isn't ready instead of getting into a fight with the biker who cut him off in traffic.

And to those of us with these past experiences, anger is always a frightening thing because we know how fragile control while angry can be. You see, we've spent years walking on eggshells to avoid being the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak.


Couldn't agree with you more Celeste.
Been there done that, wasn't fun, nor arousing.

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 4:27:05 PM   
onestandingstill


Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
General Reply:

What I'd like to know (from anyone who cares to answer) Is do you SM anger advocates actually want to feel anger so that you can have an "anger scene"?   Or is scening while you're angry just incidental at times?

Yes to both.  Sometimes I want it, sometimes it's just where the energy is.

IMO to hit someone in anger at another is not a good way to deal with your emotions.
To need to scene for stress relief without transposing that anger onto the sub directly is acceptable to me.
I know when I've had a bad day just like an alcoholic wants a drink, a druggie wants their drug, and a cutter want to cut I do indeed want to scene (more specifically a real hard spanking)to get rid of the pent up energy in my gut.

Just like feline suggests, if I get a good spanking it expends that energy and I'm left relaxed once I've gotten my fix.
suzanne








(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 6:25:52 PM   
SusanofO


Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
Status: offline 		I don't mind dealing with emotional people. I just don't want to have to be expected to deal with someone who is very out of control of themselves.

I second the thought that I would never want to be with someone who is out of control - I don't care whether that is being completely (or very) out of control of  their emotions, or high or drugs or alcohol, or very out of control for some other reason. It's simply too risky and scary (to me).  

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/9/2007 6:27:19 PM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to Celeste43)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:03:45 PM   
Noah


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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER

Thsi one last post and then I shall let it die..*Question*can you control your angry?IF so then fine.Punishment should be just that punshiment,IT should never occure during play.THATS my two cents and I am sticking too my statment angry has no play in s and m...BOUNTY


Is he afraid he'll loose his temper if he sticks around for responses to his post?

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:28:37 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline 		I recently had to deal with an EXTREMELY annoying cable salesman over the phone and after one particularly bad conversation I wanted to throw my cell phone across the room but instead went running at my boyfriend, intending to squeeze the frustration out on him in a tight hug. As I was lunging towards him I was screaming kind of primally and going "I HAVE TO HIT SOMETHING!" at which point he looked at me kind of wickedly and said, "you know you're not supposed to hit out of anger."  I gave him a few smacks on the ass but by that time I was laughing cause he just tends to do that to me.  In that once instant I really think I could have throttled him but it would not have been right, given the specifics of our dynamic. I think that if he were my slave, or if I had a slave in general, I would say that being there for me to take out frustration, aggression, even anger on is part of the deal. But I do think the line is pretty thin. All in all, as long as in taking out anger I am not doing anything that would utlimately hurt him beyond what has been agreed to previously, then my motivation for wanting to throttle him shouldn't matter.

(in reply to BOUNTYHUNTER)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:29:03 PM   
cjenny


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Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHugs

Dear Elegant, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 

 
In my mind's eyes I see, that the slave/submissive in receiving the impact from an anger root; should be given awareness of where that anger stems from.  Mentally, emotionally and spiritually--they can set their physical state into the frame to receive it.  If they are the cause of such anger, their mental, emotional and spiritual side can put into motion the atonement and forgiveness processes.  If they are an instrument of relief but are blameless, they have an opportunity to mentally, emotionally and spiritually process the energy and take it into their physical side.  The bounce back of energy of a slave can be just as healing to a Master as it is in reverse under the umbrella of catharsis.  In summary, as a Master I want my slave to take their 'self' into the place where it needs to be for the manifestation to take place and be completed.  For my catharsis or theirs.
 


    I found this to be a resoundingly accurate thought.
    In general anger scares me, I never know how to react or deal with it. It doesn't matter if I am the angry one or if someone else is, I have issues with all of it. If I felt only anger from a Dom I would probably shut down. If the feeling of self-control were stronger from him that would change it. Uncontrolled anger is scary stuff.




*stamped: ooh i wish i had some icecream.

(in reply to LadyHugs)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:39:16 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		I will not play while angry basically because it is a negative emotion and ruins the "mood" for me. When I am angry I tend to go for long walks or I work it off at the gym. I also would never hit my sub when angry, he's my sub not a punching bag for my anger. I truly think if he felt that I was angry while we were playing that he would loose some of the trust he has in me. I know I wouldn't want to play with someone who was angry.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:40:11 PM   
simplyangelic1


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/14/2006
Status: offline 		I would agree that there is a Huge difference between playing in anger and being out of control.  If one is in control of themselves and their emotions why not play and get a release that may be much needed.  However if you are in a rage, no longer in control, then IMHO that has no place in play.  The potential for harm is too great at that point.  But this is only my opinion.  As I've found it may differ greatly from others.

(in reply to cjenny)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:42:56 PM   
Noah


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Joined: 7/5/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elegant

Just to note (cause all these comments seem to focus on the Top):

Master Archer and I have been 'experimenting' with a reverse anger-related play..letting me release my rage 'on' him in a controlled manner. Our workshop synopsis:

~Fighting For Your Mind - Primal Purge Ritual

The warrior spirit is part of us all. It’s a fundamental, provoking force that can turn the meek into the formidable. Being a warrior is an emotional and primal reality as much as it’s a moral and spiritual one Rage, fear, terror, anger, fury. A primal purge ritual enables the warrior spirit to release these emotions in a safe and yet primal way, something a bottom doesn’t often get to do.  A primal act sends a very strong message to the subconscious mind to ‘let it all hang out!’  Learn the difference between Primal Purge Ritual and resistance play, how to achieve and recognize the initial signs of bottom rage, how to stay in control of your scene and positively harness the after effects



Thank you for opening up this new direction for the thread.

I've been wondering if the "No Anger in S&M" people apply this rule to the bottom as well as the top.

If a masochist comes home from a tough day at the orifice feeling not just stressed in general but actually angry, herself (your pronouns may vary), must she forbid herrself any SM? And what if she is a submissive and You Know Who happens to want some whupass time?. Does she nevertheless lay down the law and tell him no, because there is no room for anger in S&M?

How does this prohibition operate in actual cases, is what I'm wondering.

By the way, comments from anyone who holds a strong personal prohibition against anger in S&M are also solicited.


Elegant, I have a friend who is interested in processing rage in an S&M setting. Your blurb seems to suggest that you have this all figured out and can teach someone what things need to be sorted out, what their names are, and how to sort them, etc. Even as implicit claims those strike me as rather bold. This Primal Purge Ritual, is this some aspect of the human condition, in your view, or is it an exercise you have designed, or what?

The blurb makes it sound as though you are ready and willing to operate on things which are possibly very deep in another human being, possibly connected to all manner of other particulars about which you would have no way of knowing, that I can see. And since it is not addressed to the situation of a particular bottom but stated in terms of general principles it obviously can't rely an empathy born of long-term intimacy and care.

I'm wondering what sort of basis these theories of yours about this aspect of human psychology have. I'm wondering just how soon you would be willing to jump in this deep with someone who read your blurb and decided as a result to turn up at your door for this sort of ... well I guess you call it training, but please correct me if I've taken you wrong here or elsewhere.

I hope the way I've put the questions expresses the neutral spirit in which they are asked.

Thanks



(in reply to Elegant)
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RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 7:57:33 PM   
MasterGremlin


Posts: 230
Joined: 12/30/2006
Status: offline 		I suppose it would again be up to what the partners as to what the boundaries of the relationship entailed.  In O/our relationship, D/s BDSM does not occur under the influence of drugs or anything else that means He is not in control of Himself.  He has never hit me in anger although there are many other ways to punish a sub when You are angry with her
Sincerely,
minxy

(in reply to Celeste43)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 8:25:04 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		OK Two seperate answers here:
1. marietwo " What I'd like to know (from anyone who cares to answer) Is do you SM anger advocates actually want to feel anger so that you can have an "anger scene"?   Or is scening while you're angry just incidental at times"

First off I'm not really advocating it that would mean I am saying folks should do it, what I am advocating is that folks not dismiss the idea of SM play as a possible means to process anger being a safe and acceptable possibility.
Personally I don't generally generate anger so I can have the scene (Top angry bottom reciever of energy) If I happen to be angry and the idea of sceneing to relieve the anger get it out of the system rather than let it build and fester, then hey why not so long as I am in control and expect I will remain in control.

2. Noah
We actually have used SM with Elegant angry and recieving the energy from me to reach a catharsis, but the class we are exploring the idea of anger in SM at this time is the reverse.
The idea being that AS the Top I actually add to her anger generating more of it until she as the bottom lashes out at me.
My job being to generate/ focus her anger and give her an outlet meanwhile protecting myself from harm remaining calm and using martial arts pads to block/ absorb the anger until spent or until the rage reaches an unsafe level when a wrapup and take to the floor stop of the scene is required.
Kinda like a boxing coach getting the fighter past the anger issues that keep them from proper focus.

(in reply to MasterGremlin)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 8:28:29 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		Is it okay to fuck angry? Is it okay to kiss angry? Why wouldn't some other form of human sexual behavior be okay to do angry?

What if your slave even offers to allow it to help you get the stress out?

As pointed out, there is a difference in being angry while strapping your slave and being out of control. Then again I am the minority with the type of M/s relationships I am in and see how those that are in a different type would not want anger involved.

Orion

(in reply to Elegant)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Anger and S/m Play - 1/9/2007 8:54:27 PM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear marieToo, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
As to your General Reply questions -- I can only speak for myself.
 
I don't play angry with an individual I am Topping in any scene.  However, if I am working with a masochist which taps out energy I have behind the strokes and techniques, I think/project something as to cause me to trigger anger.  Sometimes you will see a masochist chid a Sadist by saying; "Is that all you got?" And, or any other type of challenge.  Reading the masochist I'm Topping, which is familiar--I don't wait for that 'tease' or 'manipulation to flip the switch into a challenge/anger response.'  By using my own anger in a controlled way, I use my chemical body responses where I don't need a masochist to flip the switch to do so.  [Hope it makes sense]  I use it as energy fuel and not as a guise to raw anger emotions and or hateful reactions to another.  I also do not do any scenes with people I dislike or angry with. 
 
Now, that said -- a Top can provoke anger from a bottom/submissive and or slave.  Picking and not let up until the primal rage, anger, the eruption of the volcano of emotions and then maintain it a bit until all of it leaves the slave/submissive/bottom/masochist. 
 
That said, I would also mention; if there was a 'role play' scene where it was an Inquisition, in an prosecutional manner--Passion can be mistaken in a way for being angry.  Both being angry and passionate are very animated emotions.  Again, in a 'role play' scene; the anger and passion remains in the scene/role play boundaries.  I would not place myself in a scene or role play with an individual that I dislike or angry with on a person to person situation.
 
It really goes to the 'spirit of intent' when all is said and done.  Internally, the intent must be established before hand, such as catharsis, healing, stress relief, etc.
 
Just some thoughts.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs
 
 
 
 

(in reply to marieToo)
Profile   Post #: 40
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