RE: big argument over female dominants

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LadyLupineNYC -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 8:36:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MsSlaveDriver I am not a professional dominant, but I can understand why many charge. Many of the "submissives" online only want someone to dress up in fetish wear and "play" with them. Many are married or in vanilla relationships. They want no committment at all. How many attractive or even non-attractive women are looking to dress up in fetish wear and play with strangers that want no committment? sigh...so true... I am Pro (at a NYC Dungon) and I am lifestyle. I don't need to tell any of the other Dommes on there the sort of crap emails I get and how much effort I put into finding quality, compatable submissives to play and possoibly expore a long term D/s relationship with. I never charge for this. I have never charged to chat with some one (though I did once sell a pair of underware on request) and I have been mentor to many novices questioning thier new found kink/fetishes/ etc. The reality is 99% of the emails I get aren't anything I am interested in as a lifestyle Mistress, some of them I direct to the Dungon. Often I get: I am not fucking paying for that! "that" being exactly what I quoted above from MSD... Is Pro work sex work? yes (though there is no 'sex' per se). Does this bother me? not as much as it bothers my parents. But I also do it for three reasons: 1) to gain more skills 2) cash and 3) more access to the scene. In that order. I use the cash, as the OP's email exchange suggests, for more equipment etc and to supliment my vanillia corportae job. Since I only do it two days a week, it is no where near enough to 'live on', and I see no one getting rich and fat on ProDomme work...but it pays some bills with money I earned with hard work (8 hours in fetish shoes? now THAT is a Pro). After all, I get those types of guys who emails we tend to ignore on here.., "oh Mistress, I want you to twist my nipples for 2 hours while wearing a tutu and you calling me a little slut". Wonderful, come right on in and I will let you fullfil your fantasy in a private, well-stocked Dungon far away from your wife, g/f, co-workers, whatever. I see this as a great service, even as so many call me a whore. ProDomme is NOT the same as lifestyle, and I have to be honest, I think few lifestyle Dommes could do it (this is something that several of the other Mistress and I talk about where are also into the lifestyle) b/c it is not a 'true' D/s experiance. Nor doI think that they should. It is a client-based business. I can respect that, but it also means I am just THAT much more picky about who I bring into my home to have more intense personal scenes with. I am not going to candy coat it. I very much prefer my lifestyle encounters, but I also, do to what I see at the Dungon, have just that much more experiances with kinks, fetishes, scenes etc etc BECAUSE I can't 'pick' (though we do have teh right of refusal if we get a bad feeling, hits our own hard limits, etc). I have found that Pro work does something that my personal submissives often don't- pushes my OWN limits.... fyi- so far as I can see... few have the stories that a Domme in a major metro area House have...they make GREAT drinking buddies... ramble over

MsSlaveDriver -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 8:43:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC quote: ORIGINAL: MsSlaveDriver I am not a professional dominant, but I can understand why many charge. Many of the "submissives" online only want someone to dress up in fetish wear and "play" with them. Many are married or in vanilla relationships. They want no committment at all. How many attractive or even non-attractive women are looking to dress up in fetish wear and play with strangers that want no committment? sigh...so true... I am Pro (at a NYC Dungon) and I am lifestyle. I don't need to tell any of the other Dommes on there the sort of crap emails I get and how much effort I put into finding quality, compatable submissives to play and possoibly expore a long term D/s relationship with. I never charge for this. I have never charged to chat with some one (though I did once sell a pair of underware on request) and I have been mentor to many novices questioning thier new found kink/fetishes/ etc. The reality is 99% of the emails I get aren't anything I am interested in as a lifestyle Mistress, some of them I direct to the Dungon. Often I get: I am not fucking paying for that! "that" being exactly what I quoted above from MSD... Is Pro work sex work? yes (though there is no 'sex' per se). Does this bother me? not as much as it bothers my parents. But I also do it for three reasons: 1) to gain more skills 2) cash and 3) more access to the scene. In that order. I use the cash, as the OP's email exchange suggests, for more equipment etc and to supliment my vanillia corportae job. Since I only do it two days a week, it is no where near enough to 'live on', and I see no one getting rich and fat on ProDomme work...but it pays some bills with money I earned with hard work (8 hours in fetish shoes? now THAT is a Pro). After all, I get those types of guys who emails we tend to ignore on here.., "oh Mistress, I want you to twist my nipples for 2 hours while wearing a tutu and you calling me a little slut". Wonderful, come right on in and I will let you fullfil your fantasy in a private, well-stocked Dungon far away from your wife, g/f, co-workers, whatever. I see this as a great service, even as so many call me a whore. ProDomme is NOT the same as lifestyle, and I have to be honest, I think few lifestyle Dommes could do it (this is something that several of the other Mistress and I talk about where are also into the lifestyle) b/c it is not a 'true' D/s experiance. Nor doI think that they should. It is a client-based business. I can respect that, but it also means I am just THAT much more picky about who I bring into my home to have more intense personal scenes with. I am not going to candy coat it. I very much prefer my lifestyle encounters, but I also, do to what I see at the Dungon, have just that much more experiances with kinks, fetishes, scenes etc etc BECAUSE I can't 'pick' (though we do have teh right of refusal if we get a bad feeling, hits our own hard limits, etc). I have found that Pro work does something that my personal submissives often don't- pushes my OWN limits.... fyi- so far as I can see... few have the stories that a Domme in a major metro area House have...they make GREAT drinking buddies... ramble over Thank you for sharing LadyLupine, what a wonderful story. You are a classy woman and you explained yourself very well.

jamesthehumanrug -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 8:48:08 PM)
dear suzie if people pay a dom while i am there its cause she demands it and is doing a favor for some absentia top or some poor begging single desperate slave, maybe.... but, i give money to a top ,and, say, when is the pretense gonna' end ;we should both have plenty for it never to be an issue, if not ;it hurts me;she has no freedom(NOT GOOD)

LadyLupineNYC -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 9:21:38 PM)
Not to put too fine a point on it, but right after writing my post here, my mail box offered me this jem from a married dom in his 50s looking for daytime (read- hotel room romps) slaves: "people PAY for a fat cow like you??????? gotta love America the streets really are paved with gold nice toes tho" I, in a rare moment where I didn't just hit 'block', wrote back: yes, married assholes like you ...well...at least I have nice toes... and ppl wonder where Pros get that martyr complex from LOL

MizSuz -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 10:23:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lorelei115 You know.. we hear a lot from really vocal men that hate Pro's... Are there any men out there that have used Professionals and enjoyed it? Obviously SOMEONE must be since the ladies are making money. I'd really love to hear a different perspective from the "male prodomme hater" and the "female prodomme defender or indifferent to". If you want to hear from men that don't have issues paying pros then you should go to a pro focused message board to get that side of the story, such as Max Fische and the like. I haven't spent a lot of time there in a number of years, but I found most of the regulars (at the time) to be quite polite and friendly. I met many of them in social capacities and was never disappointed with their conduct. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on CM that avail themselves of that sort of relationship. The waters on most lifestyle boards are not friendly to pros and that lends itself to clients not speaking up. Occasionally you'll get someone to pipe up on these boards with something positive to say about seeing pros, but not often. It's just too judgemental on many lifestyle boards for the pro scene. Pity, too. Most professionals have a lot of experience from which to draw and usually are quite forthcoming; but who wants to gift someone with time and experience if you have to beat your way past the misconceptions first? Like there isn't enough stigma regarding BDSM, so we have to do it to each other, too.

MissDiscipline -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 11:08:15 PM)
For all those comments against ProDommes, you have my permision to express your oral affection with My ass, but must sign a slave contract first and serve Me for all eternity or you may schedule a quick "kiss a mistress ass session" for a required fee, as soon as I am available. For those infavor of ProDomme may schedule a session as soon as I get finished with this shit load line of anti ProDommers waiting for ME. I find it amazing once and individual finds the comfort of a lifestyle D/s relationship , the rented ones they once thrived on become a BDSM no-no- [sm=crop.gif]all in the name of true BDSM

demistress -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/12/2007 11:55:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizSuz A responsible owner understands that in terms of needs, those they are responsible for come first because that is part of being an owner. I realize, however, that this scenario rarely fits the stereotypical "keep me naked and enslaved always" fantasy of contemporary, consensual slavery. Which brings me back to: Why would an intelligent woman own something that didn't add value? The good and bad of that is that she gets to decide what value is in her life. You get to live with it or not. Thanks MizSuz, I really liked your take on this. When I take ownership of something, I want to be able to provide for him/her/it in the comfort, safety, and health I find acceptable. I do not believe it should be subject to lesser requirements, and thus I do feel like a slave or sub should contribute, since currently I do not have the resources to support another human being in safety and security, sure I could provide a roof over his/her/its head, but meals, health insurance, etc. are another story.......

mons -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 1:56:44 AM)
greetings i agree with her on some things if a submissive is to live with a domme yes he should pay for things i myself do not ask for anything from any man. but if they wish this and there are so many males who will do this, and why should you be mad if a male does this. now your part i did not read it i knew what it would say. and you have every right to what you want and not want. i do not write long post it is so simply there are man who do not wish to pay for anything, you one who does not, she did not say she wasnot a pro but she must had meant some of the man who do wish to give to her , end of story it is not so long and drawn out. you must find one who does not want you to pay and there are so many who do not want you for money only you. was it right to put what she personally wrote to you on this board ? i not seen this before . you maybe a domme dream but next time do not put what someone has written to you was this written here or another place take mons ( dyslexic read it slow it will make sense sooner or later i try hard )

LotusSong -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 4:47:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bandit25 But women buy sex from male escorts all the time...what's the difference? Maybe I am just tired and I'm not making any sense. As I said to domiguy...I don't see this as admirable, ethical, nonadmirable or nonethical...it just is. I'm not arguing with you, bandit.. I agree with what you said. People do what they need to do to survive.

LaTigresse -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 6:09:43 AM)
OMG, one would have thought that even the bones of this old nag had turned to dust by now. My personal take on the topic "Who the fuck cares?!?!?!" This affects my life not one iota. I am a relationship person. If someone comes into my life, yes, they will have to work. Not to support me but to assist in supporting themself. To save money for that rainy day, to provide themself with health insurance because I can't, to be a functioning and useful member of the community. I do not NEED someone flitting about the house 24/7 tidying up. I am messy but not THAT messy! All of that being said I do have a funny story that just happens to apply to this subject. Several weeks ago a gentleman from the area (about 100 miles away) contacted me via collarme email. Said he knew I was only interested in women but that all he wanted to do was serve, nothing sexual involved (like I haven't got that one before). Well, since his letter was actually very well written and I was feeling rather generous that day I replied in a little less than normal, bitchy tone. Something along the line of "Thank you for your lovely letter and acknowledging that you actually took the time to read my profile but just HOW do you imagine that you would be of interest to me?". He replied in a very unusual and charming fashion, we sent several emails back and forth. He never was terribly specific on the "how" part but he did keep bringing up his job and financial security and how that might be of interest to me. Now, I have NEVER even considered the aspects of financial slavery. To be honest, I would not have a clue how to even attempt it. This guy and I finally exchanged IM id's and I kinda explained to him that the idea of just taking gifts or money from someone was not something that I was comfortable with. He would leave it alone and actually was a very good conversationalist, very intelligent and a great sense of humour. I enjoyed our occasional chats. He told me that yes, he is married and it is a very vanilla marriage. Obviously this doesn't matter at all to me.......lesbian......so I had no reaction other than curiousity and asked alot of questions that really didn't matter other than I like to get to know people. Well, to make a long story short. As usual his kink had to take over and he began pushing. First it was little hints like, "you could make ALOT of money" then the questions got more and more sexual. Finally, I got tired of the constant nudging from him and having to remind him "lesbian!" which of course he knew allllllllll along. Sooooo, I just decided to give him a task. Give me a list of ways (which he had said existed from the beginning) in which he could serve me. I also specified non-sexual. Several days went by, he was not online much, when he was he had excuses for not writing it, kept going back to money and sexual innuendos. Finally I gave him a deadline. Guess what?!?!? I have not heard from him since. So, you tell me who propagates the money for kink issue?

cyberdude611 -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 9:59:15 AM)
Many pro-dommes do it for the sole purpose of money. If you take money out of the equation, would there be even close to as many women out there doing this? Nope.

MasterGremlin -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 10:17:33 AM)
Here is the issue I have with pro Dominants (male or female). How can it truly be submission when you are paying Them to do what you want Them to? Respectfully, minxy [:)]

LadyLupineNYC -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 10:19:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Many pro-dommes do it for the sole purpose of money. If you take money out of the equation, would there be even close to as many women out there doing this? Nope. This is true...I just had a client yesterday who had had a very bad experiance with a woman billing herself as a ProDomme in the back of a local newspaper ('nuff said on that) who left a MUCH happier man when I was done with him....I will also say that some of the best Mistress I have seen were woman who came in for the money and who quickly really 'got' it and were just amazing to watch in action. I think it is partly b/c they were able to approch it purely from a detached point of view- none of the baggae we see become rants on these boards clouding away from thier own fun at doing a good session, even if they went home to want some might look down on as 'just vanillia' lives/relationships. One of the apects that ppl forget is that as Pros, they have to become mini-experts at many forms of kink, not high specialists (though there is plenty of room for that too)...there is little that I have not seen or hear about after the session was over...it just makes me thankful for all the variety that life has to offer, and that there is aplace for ppl to expore it without worring if they are doing a kneeling possition right or using corrent eye contact protocals (tho, when relivant, I do instuct on this)....and, to be frank, there are many clients who just lack the simple social skills to find and keep a Mistress (you would think showering would be...I don't know...a good thing)...funny how I see those same sort of guys (tho not the same exact ones, just the 'type') complain at kink parties about they can't find a Mistress while following me like a wounded puppy asking all sorts of questions about my sex life while I try and see my friends. Come on...you know what I am talking about...at least I hope you do; I would hate it to just be me...where do I FIND these guys [:(] Many in this lifesyle owe thier 1st submissive experinace to a Pro as an experiment...let's just accept that it wouldn't exisit if there wasn't a need and that just b/c there is a need let's not assume that there is anything wrong with it or the people involved in the trasactions.... ...so...anyone want to buy some used panties [;)] lol

pixelslave -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 10:35:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MizSuz If a woman put an expectation of tribute on her profile then it's a pretty good possibility that she's looking to hear from men that want to pay said tribute. If that's not you then why do you care? If it's never been you and you have no experience with women who do take tribute then on what do you base your unsolicited opinion (which is only a judgement in disguise)? Excellent point MizSuz! I'm reminded of a saying that when retold to me was attributed to a skateboarder from California who had just passed another boarder crying and complaining after a crash and said: "Acknolwedge and move on dude!" I think that describes this situation quite well. If you don't find a woman compatibible, its simply time to move on to the next one. No harm, no foul, and definitely no need to carry it with you to the next! [&:] - pixel

cyberdude611 -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 11:03:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC quote: ORIGINAL: cyberdude611 Many pro-dommes do it for the sole purpose of money. If you take money out of the equation, would there be even close to as many women out there doing this? Nope. This is true...I just had a client yesterday who had had a very bad experiance with a woman billing herself as a ProDomme in the back of a local newspaper ('nuff said on that) who left a MUCH happier man when I was done with him....I will also say that some of the best Mistress I have seen were woman who came in for the money and who quickly really 'got' it and were just amazing to watch in action. I think it is partly b/c they were able to approch it purely from a detached point of view- none of the baggae we see become rants on these boards clouding away from thier own fun at doing a good session, even if they went home to want some might look down on as 'just vanillia' lives/relationships. I think the whole money thing is a bigger issue among young or inexperienced pro-dommes. People that get into this just for the money usually dont last long. That's the same story with every profession or job out there vanilla or not. If you dont like it, it's probably not long before you tell your boss to shove it, no matter how much you are making. A pro means that you are so good at something that you get paid for it. It usually means you have a lot of practice, skill, and experience in doing it. And it usually means you have been doing it a long time before making money off it. How a 20 year old can consider herself a "pro" domme is beyond me. Now most pro-dommes in their 30s who have been at it for awhile seem to be much more serious, have a lot of experience, and know what they are doing and talking about. Like LadyLupine said, many guys going to a pro-domme are doing it because they are new to the scene. They want someone who is serious and knows what they are doing. Not someone who just screws around just to make a few cheap bucks. And if you ever do a session with a pro-domme, it certainly isn't rude to ask about her experience, credentials, or what she is into. It should be something she is proud of discussing.

pixelslave -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 11:12:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong They do because they can. A man's Achilles heel is his sex drive. Men hold the lion's share of the wealth and power in his world. This is THEIR only control over the women. And the women have their source of control over them via the man's primal drive. LotusSong, I think you've over-simplified here. Things are changing and very different from from relationship to relationship. Twenty years ago, there were very few house-husbands, but look at how abundant they are today! My former Mistress/spouse is a senior executive at a Fortune 400 company here in Dallas. While we were economically "equals" when we began our relationship, I sacrificed my career numerous times to support hers, including moving from Michigan to Dallas. I really think the economic control and balance is changing, particularly on an individual basis. [&:] quote: When a woman (in general) gives the man what he wants.. he calls her bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat. Gee, thanks guys.. and we were being nice like you wanted. Now, when a woman charges for her favors.. again, she is called bitch,whore, slut, cunt, twat, but in the latter scenario she has some sort of compensation. Again, I think this is truly an over-generalization. I personally am always thankful when a woman whith whom I'm involved has shared that part of her which brings us closer together in the most intimate of ways. I'd like to think there are many other men who also feel the same way, even if if they have trouble admitting it, or perhaps use some sort of foolish display of bravado regarding their sexual abilities in pleasing their partners. quote: ORIGINAL: aSlavesLife Would it not be better to work on changing the views of both male and female? For example,encouraging the removal of the glass ceiling while simultaneously pushing for equal rights for male parents. Would this not serve the human race in general? Is the approach of soothing hard feelings on both sides not preferable to encouraging the exploitation of one sides weaknesses and creating rifts that people have worked so hard to bridge? I heartily agree with you aSL! In my opinion, exploitation is part of what women have justifiably complained about for centuries. Swinging the pendulum in the other direction serves no purpose than to exacerbate the situation and and preclude the possibility of a meeting of the minds. BTW, its been my observation that the glass ceiling is indeed beginning to disappear, although not as rapidly as many women would like to see it happen. Perhaps one day it will happen, however I'm not certain that all women will embrace it and all that it implies; another part of the equation that further complicates the situation. [8\|] - pixel

crouchingtigress -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 11:16:04 AM)
quote: I commented that way *too many* female dominants appear just to want money and to have no real interest in d/s and bdsm. how many would be the perfect amount according to you? quote: They're part of *the problem* as well what exactly is the problem? quote: why does it matter whether or not this slave has a nice portfolio? for me it matters because poverty is a state of mind....and shows me a great deal about the person.

pixelslave -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 1:43:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC I am Pro (at a NYC Dungon) and I am lifestyle. I don't need to tell any of the other Dommes on there the sort of crap emails I get and how much effort I put into finding quality, compatable submissives to play and possoibly expore a long term D/s relationship with. I never charge for this. I have never charged to chat with some one (though I did once sell a pair of underware on request) and I have been mentor to many novices questioning thier new found kink/fetishes/ etc. The reality is 99% of the emails I get aren't anything I am interested in as a lifestyle Mistress, some of them I direct to the Dungon. Often I get: I am not fucking paying for that! "that" being exactly what I quoted above from MSD... Is Pro work sex work? yes (though there is no 'sex' per se). Does this bother me? not as much as it bothers my parents. But I also do it for three reasons: 1) to gain more skills 2) cash and 3) more access to the scene. In that order. I use the cash, as the OP's email exchange suggests, for more equipment etc and to supliment my vanillia corportae job. Since I only do it two days a week, it is no where near enough to 'live on', and I see no one getting rich and fat on ProDomme work...but it pays some bills with money I earned with hard work (8 hours in fetish shoes? now THAT is a Pro). After all, I get those types of guys who emails we tend to ignore on here.., "oh Mistress, I want you to twist my nipples for 2 hours while wearing a tutu and you calling me a little slut". Wonderful, come right on in and I will let you fullfil your fantasy in a private, well-stocked Dungon far away from your wife, g/f, co-workers, whatever. I see this as a great service, even as so many call me a whore. ProDomme is NOT the same as lifestyle, and I have to be honest, I think few lifestyle Dommes could do it (this is something that several of the other Mistress and I talk about where are also into the lifestyle) b/c it is not a 'true' D/s experiance. Nor doI think that they should. It is a client-based business. I can respect that, but it also means I am just THAT much more picky about who I bring into my home to have more intense personal scenes with. I am not going to candy coat it. I very much prefer my lifestyle encounters, but I also, do to what I see at the Dungon, have just that much more experiances with kinks, fetishes, scenes etc etc BECAUSE I can't 'pick' (though we do have teh right of refusal if we get a bad feeling, hits our own hard limits, etc). I have found that Pro work does something that my personal submissives often don't- pushes my OWN limits.... Great post! It added a different and unique perspective to the discussion at hand. Here's a question for you though. Since you primarily seem to identify as a lifestyler, once you had your own submissive who was presumably at least living with you and contributing to meeting your expenses, would you be continuing your Pro Domme work to help make ends meet? I'm curious as it wasn't clear from your profile what your intent was/is. [8\|] - pixel

LadyLupineNYC -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 3:19:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pixelslave Great post! It added a different and unique perspective to the discussion at hand. Here's a question for you though. Since you primarily seem to identify as a lifestyler, once you had your own submissive who was presumably at least living with you and contributing to meeting your expenses, would you be continuing your Pro Domme work to help make ends meet? I'm curious as it wasn't clear from your profile what your intent was/is. [8\|] - pixel I will answer this off line tommorrow w/ you since I am sure not everyone reaaly wants to hear the answer...[:)]

MizSuz -> RE: big argument over female dominants (1/13/2007 3:58:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyLupineNYC fyi- so far as I can see... few have the stories that a Domme in a major metro area House have...they make GREAT drinking buddies... They generally have better parties, too (in my opinion). If you were a private dungeon you wouldn't have to bother yourself with sessioning people that didn't fit into your ideal. Yes, it'll cut into the bottom line, but it also affords you the ability to cultivate relationships that fall in between the pro client that doesn't want contact outside of the session beyond email and the "lifestyle" relationship (whatever that may mean to you). I loved my studio and enjoyed being a pro a great deal. I met some wonderful people via that venue, some that I remain in contact with today. They are friends, dear friends. I agree that pro dommes generally aren't getting rich, even if they work full time at it (and working for yourself means full time plus), although that knowledge might crash a few fantasies. I've sessioned private clients at houses (I rented the facilities) and it made for a nice change, but I would not want to work for someone else as a pro. I have always been incredibly picky about my clientelle (usually to my financial detriment). My hat's off to ya.

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