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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 7:36:05 AM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
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Status: offline 		A (singular) thorn......................positive briar patch from my experience....................but when chained up and suspended I find it can quiet them down a little.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 7:40:59 AM   
Dtesmoac


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Status: offline 		All this north Britain vs south leaves me with a dilemna as a Mercian, especially throwing in the Welsh question too. I mean, we're right in the middle of all this.
I have the shiny boots already. Does anyone know how to run up a uniform and an armband?


I go for the combined Mercia Wales option -
London and the North would never get their act together enough to invade us both at once, there would be to many arguments at Breakfast over Black Pudding or Muesli, by which time we could get in there and nick the milk. Thereby creating a tea incident and reultan conflict between Londinium and the North.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 7:42:23 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Sooner the Scots go the better, Then the Irish, then the Welsh, NG is having a bad effect on me...I say fuck 'em all.

I want my tax pound back so the local council can take it to paint more Bus Lanes on the streets, pretty green colour where I live, and install more traffic lights which impede traffic flow, then the local Traffic expert can say tax cars even more 'cos they cause congestion.

Incidently we've just had 5/6 Asians attack a white boy with a hammer and all the "experts" say it wasn't racially motivated.
I arsk ya'. I heard the Asians were on a day trip from Glasgow !

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 7:47:56 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

No nudity in the hot tub??????????
Riding gear - hmm i only have the stuff to actually be a pony lol.
Teddy bear - i go nowhere without mine - i love Mr.


Naked in the hot tub after dark only until we get the fence done.
 
Motorcycle riding gear silly!
 
Good bring Mr. along, he can play nice with Bear and Sheepdog while we drink wine in the hot tub.



well colour me stupid lol, i didnt realise motor bikes. Ive never been on one i find them scarey.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 7:49:06 AM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac

A (singular) thorn......................positive briar patch from my experience....................but when chained up and suspended I find it can quiet them down a little.


ROFL

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 8:02:27 AM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Incidently we've just had 5/6 Asians attack a white boy with a hammer and all the "experts" say it wasn't racially motivated.
I arsk ya'. I heard the Asians were on a day trip from Glasgow !


There's only one solution to all this interracial and international conflict;

First of all, we ship all the Welsh, Scots and Irish out of England, back to their beloved homelands. This will coincidentally, depopulate England by 50% at a stroke, relieving traffic congestion and the housing crisis and reducing crime, anti-social behaviour and social benefit costs too.

Then we ship all the Indians (Hindus) to somewhere they can have their own little state - say Leicestershire, as no one likes Leicestershire anyway. The Muslims of all origins can have South and West Yorkshire and put up Arabic street signs there (which will be a huge improvement on signing there as things stand). Afro Caribbeans/Black people (or whatever they want to be called) can have Nottinghamshire - another godawful place whose only positive value is that the M1 runs quickly past it. Anyone else left over can have Lincolnshire, England's most boring county.

Everyone wins. Especially the English. Especially the English people of West and South Yorkshire, Leicestershire, Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire, who will of course be resettled in better places of the country after living all their lives in those particular regions.

Government meanwhile, will be brought to Birmingham and London will be sealed off with a 30ft high wall painted in anti-climb paint and surrounded by barbed wire and minefields.

Or, we could just accept that some people, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, financial status etc etc, are assholes and some are great people we'd all like to count as friends. Strangely, being an asshole is not contingent on any particular identifying feature.

E

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 8:15:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		No the proper answer is to convene a conference of academics, a bit like those who go to 150 pound per night hotels to discuss 3rd World poverty, the academics would agree that if everybody was reasonable nobody would be unreasonable then  then they could issue a report, Tony Blair could travel round the world. G Bush could string 3 words together and we would all live happily ever after in peace and harmony.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/13/2007 8:16:58 AM >

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/13/2007 10:35:10 AM   
Dtesmoac


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Status: offline 		Government meanwhile, will be brought to Birmingham and London will be sealed off with a 30ft high wall painted in anti-climb paint and surrounded by barbed wire and minefields. Now I liked this part of the proposal

Or, we could just accept that some people, regardless of their ethnicity, religion, financial status etc etc, are assholes and some are great people we'd all like to count as friends. Strangely, being an asshole is not contingent on any particular identifying feature. But if we bring logic and reality into our prejudice then that will only leave the weather and Europe to blame all our woes on..... o yes and the USA of course......
 




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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 1:50:56 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		If I was Scottish, I'd want independence.

Firstly, one of the key reasons why most nations (such as Germany driven by Prussia, Italy driven by Piedmont, Belguim driven by the Flemish) formed in the 1800s was to enable a centralised government to mobilise huge numbers of men and machinery for imperialist conquest. The same applies to the Scotland/England/Wales union. It goes without saying that our days of imperialism (with the exception of acting as worldwide agents for our president across the water) are well and truly over. There's one reason gone for the union.

The other reason is economic convenience which I suppose is linked to the imperialism of the union. I don't know the ins and outs of English tax money paid to Scotland but even if it is a net gain for the Scots it is even more of a reason to break away from England. Over-reliance on a foreign government is not healthy because ultimately they have you by the bollocks and can dictate to you. I really struggle to understand why the majority of Scots do not want to give it a crack on their own - it would do wonders for self-confidence (buckfast manufacturers would go out of business - weak, I know but fuck it). It can only be good for national morale.

Another point is this: for a nation of 5 million people Scotland has punched well above their weight in terms of technological, industrial and medicinal development (I was reading a list of prominent Scots in these fields and it is staggering). Thus, I'm not seeing any reason for self-doubt.

More importantly, surely Scotland would be better served with a Jock (who is passionate about their country) running the show than some bloke who's come out of Eton? If it all goes tits up then so be it but at least you have your pride in that you're creating your own mess rather than someone else creating a mess for you.

Even more importantly, we all know that when push comes to shove London does not have the best interests of Scotland at heart nor even the North East of England so I say the Scots should tell London where to shove it. The Scots should take their oil, fish, fighting and the rest of it and keep it to themselves.


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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 2:46:24 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_Scheme

Check this out NG; the main reason why Scotland had to join with England under the Act Of Union, and the same reason why Scotland today would find it hard to go it alone. The Darien Scheme bankrupted Scotland and it had little choice but to join with England. The rest as they say, is history.

Now this is not to say that England rescued Scotland, or that Scotland is too weak to stand alone, even if it would be a struggle. What it says to me, and proved worldwide in the two or so centuries following Union, is that it makes far more sense to both sides for the countries to be united in the world; a sum greater than the two parts scenario. For one other thing is true too - without Scotland, England would have been as hard pressed to compete back then as Scotland was, and I suggest that the same thing applies today.

As for Wales, one would have to ask the Normans who conquered the place about the whys and wherefores, but the same thing applies. Wales is sadly not viable as an independent country in the modern world, unless it is going to compete with the likes of Slovenia.

I'd also like to ask all these nationalists in the so called Celtic lands; from whom is it that they want independence? If there are victims in this Union, then England for sure is one too. London may be the capital, for right or wrong, but it could just as easily have been Edinburgh - we English had Scottish kings for a century after all, and they could have moved the whole thing had that been a sensible way to proceed. It clearly wasnt; they came down here.

In the greater scheme of things, the UK is a power punching well above its weight in the world, and we would ALL lose from dissolution, without a shadow of a doubt. Instead, lets confine our rivalries to the sports field, and understand that.

E

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 2:57:18 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Just had a quick whiz thru' that, No I dont mean I pissed on it, it says there that England agreed to meet the debts of Scotland.

Nothings changed then !

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:05:26 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Another point is this: for a nation of 5 million people Scotland has punched well above their weight in terms of technological, industrial and medicinal development (I was reading a list of prominent Scots in these fields and it is staggering). Thus, I'm not seeing any reason for self-doubt.



The reason the Scottish elite sold out to England was ambition (money) and the reason why many Scottish politicians want to remain part of the Union is ambition. Scotland without England was a parochial outback. Look at the famous Scots before the Union and after it. Even when James became King, he and his Scottish entourage couldn't wait to leave Scotland behind. If you aren't into the Scottish landscape, the best thing about Scotland is the road out.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:13:44 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

For one other thing is true too - without Scotland, England would have been as hard pressed to compete back then as Scotland was, and I suggest that the same thing applies today.



One of the reasons England wanted to secure Scotland was to close England's back door to its enemies, the Spanish and the French. As for being unable to compete without Scotland, that is laughable. Scotland is a financial burden to England which has to send jobs up north to console the natives when they would be better done down south. Even then with a constant redistribution of wealth north, England has been unable to stop the fall in population and GDP of Scotland. The problem is that the Scots are proliferate public spenders and a dose of independence would bring them back to the real world and they would have to make public spending cuts and the hard choices of not relying on another nation.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:18:53 AM   
NorthernGent


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MC, a few famous Scots:

Adam - Robert (1728-1792) - Architect of Culzean Castle and many other fine buildings.
Asquith - Margot (1864-1945) - High society wit and non-conformist who married Prime Minister Herbert Asquith.
Baird - John Logie (1888-1946) - Started the first TV station in the world.
Barrie - Sir J M (1860-1937) - Author of "Peter Pan" and "The Admirable Crichton".
Barbour - John (1316-1395) - Father of Scottish vernacular poetry with his epic "The Brus".
Bell - Alexander Graham (1847-1922) - Inventor of the telephone and involved in genetics and phonetics.
Brewster - Sir David (1781-1868) - Invented the kaleidoscope and the lenticular stereoscope.
Brodie - Deacon William (? - 1788) - A colourful and successful thief and inspiration for "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde".
Bruce - James (1730-1794) - A giant of a man who found the source of the Nile in Abbysinia in 1770.
Buchan - John (1875-1940) - Governor General of Canada and an the author of "The Thirty-Nine Steps" etc.
Burns - Robert (1759-1796) - Scotland's most celebrated poet.
Byron - George Gordon (Lord Byron) (1788-1824) - His Scottish childhood doubtless had an impact on the poet.
Campbell - Colin, 1st Baron Clyde (1792-1863) - His exploits at Balaclava gave rise to the "thin red line" legend.
Carlyle - Thomas (1795-1881) - An influential philosopher and historian of the Victorian age.
Carnegie - Andrew (1835-1919) - The railway, iron and steel tycoon who gave all his wealth away.
Connery - Sir Sean (1930- ) - Regarded by some as the greatest president Scotland never had.
Connolly - Billy (1942 - ) - The shipyard worker who became an international actor and comedian.
Dale - David (1739-1806) - His mills in New Lanark were the largest cotton-spinning mills in Britain.
Dewar - Sir James (1842-1923) - Inventor of the vacuum flask.
Douglas - David (1799-1834) - Botanist and explorer after whom the Douglas fir is named.
Doyle - Sir Arthur Conan (1859-1930) - Based his famous detective Sherlock Holmes on a forensic scientist.
Duncan - Adam, 1st Viscount Camperdown (1731-1804) - Defeated the Dutch navy at Camperdown.
Duncan - Rev Henry (1774-1846) - Founder of the mutual savings bank movement, restorer of the Ruthwell Cross.
Dunlop - John Boyd (1840-1921) - Established the Dunlop Rubber Company.
Ferguson - Sir Alex (1942 - ) - A football manager who has made two different teams European Champions.
Fleming - Sir Alexander (1881-1955) - Won the Nobel prize as discoverer of penicillin.
Forrest - George (1873-1932) - Brought back over 30,000 specimens of 10,000 plants from China.
Geddes - Sir Patrick (1854-1932) - Chiefly known for his ideas on town planning.
Gladstone - William Ewart (1809-1898) - UK Prime Minister.
Glover - Sir Thomas Blake (1838 - 1911) - Responsible for the modern industrialisation of Japan.
Graham - James, 1st Marquess of Montrose (1612-50) - A brilliant soldier.
Graham - John, Viscount Dundee (1648-1689) - "Bonnie Dundee" came from Sir Walter Scott's song.
Grierson - John (1898-1972) - "Father of the documentary".
Haig - Earl of Bemersyde (1861-1928) - Commander-in-chief of British forces in France in the 1914-18 War.
Hepburn - James (1536-1578) - 4th Earl of Bothwell, he abducted Mary Queen of Scots and married her.
Hill - David Octavius (1802 - 1870) - Produced some of the finest photographic portraits of the 19th century
Hogg - James (1770-1835) - The "Ettrick Shepherd" poet wrote often about his native Borders.  
James VI - King (1566-1625) - The first king of both Scotland and England.
Jones - John Paul (1747-1792) - America's first naval hero.
Kelvin - Lord (1824-1907) - University at age 10, professor at 22, prolific inventor and publisher of scientific papers.
Kidd - Captain William (1645-1701) - The treasure of this famous pirate, hanged in 1701, has never been found.
Lauder - Sir Harry (1870-1950) - Entertainer and song writer whose caricatures influenced Scotland's image.
Liddell - Eric Henry (1902-1945) - A great athlete, he became the subject of the film "Chariots of Fire".
Lister - Lord Joseph (1827-1912) - Pioneer of modern surgery and antiseptics.
Liston - Robert (1794-1847) - A brilliant surgeon before the days of anaesthetics.
Livingstone - Dr David (1813-1873) - African missionary and explorer.
McAdam - John Loudon (1756-1836) - Improved a tar-based road surface which became known as "tarmac".
Macbeth - King (1005- 1057) - Shakespeare based his tragedy on selected facts about this Scottish king.
MacDonald - Flora (1725-1790) - Her bravery helped save Bonnie Prince Charlie after the defeat at Culloden.
MacDonald - James Ramsay (1866-1937) - Became the first Labour Prime Minister in Britain in 1924.
Macdonald - Sir John A (1815-1891) - First Prime Minister of Canada in 1867-1873 and again from 1878 to 1891.
Macintosh - Charles (1766-1843) - His invention of waterproof clothing added his name to the English dictionary.
McKellar - Kenneth (1927- ) - This popular tenor toured the world with Scottish songs.
Mackenzie - Sir Alexander (1764-1820) - Explored Canada and reached the Pacific Ocean in 1793.  
Macquarrie - Lachlan (1762-1824) - "Father of Australia".
Maxwell - James Clerk (1831-1879) - Crerated a profound change in the conception of reality in physics.
Miller - Hugh (1802-1856) - A pioneer of the science of geology.
Muir - John (1834-1914) - One of the founders of United States Conservation.
Murdoch - William (1754-1839) - Inventor who is best known for his manufacture of gas lighting.
New Zealand and Scots - From the first recorded settler to Governor General and three Prime Ministers.
Paolozzi - Eduardo (1924 - 2005) - An international painter and sculptor, born in Leith.
Paterson - William (1658-1719) - Founder of the Bank of England and organiser of the ill-fated Darien Scheme.
Pinkerton - Allan (1819-1884) - Founded the Pinkerton Detective Agency in Chicago in 1850.
Rowling - J. K. (1965 - ) - The author of the "Harry Potter" books has made Scotland her adopted home.
Scott - Sir Walter (1771-1832) - Author of novels such as "Ivanhoe" who also "invented" modern tartans.
Simpson - Sir James Y (1811-1870) - Pioneer of the medical use of chloroform.
Scott - Michael (? - 1236?) - Philospher, translator, alchemist, astrologer and legendary "wizard".
Scotus - John Duns (1265-1308) - One of the greatest of medieval thinkers, he gave his name to the word "dunce".
Slessor - Mary (1848-1915) - Missionary in Calabar, West Africa who transformed the treatment of women there.
Smith - Adam (1723-1790) - Wrote the first "modern" book on economics, advocating free trade to increase wealth.
Smollet - Tobias George (1721- 1771) - Regarded as a founder of the modern novel.
Spence - Catherine (1826-1910) - Australia's first female political candidate and a campaigner for women's suffrage.
Stevenson - Robert Louis (1850-1894) - Author of such classics as "Treasure Island" and "Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde".
Stewart - Sir Jackie (1939 - ?) - Formula 1 Racing World Champion in 1969, 1971 and 1973.
Telford - Thomas (1757-1834) - The "Colossus of Roads" earned a reputation as the finest civil engineer of his day.
Thomson - Alexander "Greek" (1817-1875) - Architect whose admiration for Grecian forms bcame a trademark.
Transport and the Scots - Scots inventors from railways to steamboats and two-stroke engines.  
UK Run by Scots - From the Prime Minister to the leader of the Liberal Democrat Party.
United States First Governors - Nine of the first governors of the 13 states were of Scottish ancestry.
Watson-Watt - Sir Robert (1892-1973) - Developed radar which helped to win the Battle of Britain in 1940.
Watt - James (1736-1819) - His development of the steam engine was the springboard for the Industrial Revolution.  
Wingate - Walter (1865-1918) - A schoolmaster whose poems have been taught to generations of schoolchildren.
Witherspoon - John (1723-1794) - Scottish minister urged the signing of the American Declaration of Independence.

I reckon they should go for it - self determination, no need for self-doubt.



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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:22:57 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		Not many before the act of Union which was my point.

I also noticed that many and maybe most (just at a glance) never spent their whole careers in Scotland.(Proably because there is not a lot there.)

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 1/15/2007 3:26:16 AM >

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:32:07 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		Most of what we consider today to be great strides in technological and industrial development took place after the union of 1707. Thus, most English pioneers in these fields were also operating after the union. In my opinion, before or after the union is not an issue - the Scots have had a real influence on the modern world which is no mean feat for a country of 5 million.

As said, there is no need for self-doubt on the part of the Scots.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:38:56 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		You could get a similar list for Yorkshire or Lancashire or other comparable sized population. As for before the Union you could list many Englishmen and find very few Scots which suggests the Union helped ambitious Scots which it did, I don't see how you can argue with that.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 3:44:48 AM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		I'm not really arguing, MC.

I'm saying the Scots have enough about them to do their own thing. That's all. If you don't agree then that's fine.

When they were alive is immaterial to me and I think Alexander Bell is entitled to the credit for his work (rather than the English for granting them a union).



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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 4:34:40 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

When they were alive is immaterial to me and I think Alexander Bell is entitled to the credit for his work (rather than the English for granting them a union).



That's fine by me. Anyone can go on their own but it doesn't escape the fact that it was the Union that was the driving force behind the modernisation of Scotland and the opening up of opportunities for the Scots. Now Scottish mostalgia might want to hark back to the romantic age of a backward kingdom, England has a similar nostalgic problem now in regard to Europe.

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RE: End of the Union......dissolution of Britain - 1/15/2007 4:41:53 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Anyone can go on their own but it doesn't escape the fact that it was the Union that was the driving force behind the modernisation of Scotland and the opening up of opportunities for the Scots.



The above is like saying world industrialisation opened up opportunity and reward for Britons. It is a fact but why do you believe it is a relevant fact? It doesn't detract from what Britons can achieve today and in my book the same applies to the Scots and the union with the English 300 years ago.

_____________________________

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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