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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 4:04:08 PM   
BDSM05478


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Where the desire for growth comes in… There is a situation that I want to be able to see from multiple perspectives and I want to have some empathy for the other people involved and I am struggling with that.

How have you learned to view other perspectives or learned to develop empathy within a situation?  I am interested in hearing thoughts, opinions or skills that you have used to develop these things.

Knight’s kyra


You are already well in touch with your empathic side.... empathy is the projection of one's own personality into the personality of another in order to understand them better; ability to share in anothers feeling and emotions. We are all empathic everyone of us, it is easy to gauge and feel the feeling of another as it is just our perception into anothers experience. They point of view never changes. Now if you want sympathy thats a different ballpark and can only be felt from another that shares in how you feel from experience. We can never truly understand anothers feeling unless we ourselves have actually and tangibly felt it for ourselves. I myself have no problem with either empathy or sympathy but for the life of me can not understand the complexites when it all seems a simplicity.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 4:10:25 PM   
kyraofMists


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First I would like to thank those who posted.  There is quite a bit for me to read and digest.  I will probably come back later with specific questions.  I wasn't really sure where this thread might go but I am quite pleased with the thoughts that were shared.


quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
Just goes to show you ... Life just isn't Fair....  And I say... Thank God... otherwise... I might be talking to myself *g*


My Lord... may I point out that at the moment you are alone in a hotel room, so if you are talking... you are talking to yourself, my Lord   *eg*


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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 4:14:27 PM   
BDSM05478


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_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 4:16:06 PM   
marieToo


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Empathy is not so much understanding or sympathizing with someone's pain, but feeling it.

Empaths cannot distinguish between their own pain and someone else's.

It's like theres a certain 'emotional barrier' that they didn't receive at birth. 

Like a river that flows with no dam to stop it or change it's direction, an empath will feel someone else's pain and not be able to 'feel' the line of demarcation.  Its like getting lost in it and feeling the same as the person who is suffering feels and it takes an amazing amount of control to snap out of it, much the way we are in the midst of a nightmare and trying to wake ourselves up.

After reading the posts here, I think what some people might be talking about here is actually "compassion".  Alot of people lack compassion.  Empathy the way Im familiar with it is actually very rare.  Compassion however, is something that I think people should be more conscious of. I don't think someone can be taught how to feel compassionate.  I think humbling experiences are the only teacher of that.


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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 4:47:08 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Empathy is not so much understanding or sympathizing with someone's pain, but feeling it.

Empaths cannot distinguish between their own pain and someone else's.

It's like theres a certain 'emotional barrier' that they didn't receive at birth. 

Like a river that flows with no dam to stop it or change it's direction, an empath will feel someone else's pain and not be able to 'feel' the line of demarcation.  Its like getting lost in it and feeling the same as the person who is suffering feels and it takes an amazing amount of control to snap out of it, much the way we are in the midst of a nightmare and trying to wake ourselves up.

After reading the posts here, I think what some people might be talking about here is actually "compassion".  Alot of people lack compassion.  Empathy the way Im familiar with it is actually very rare.  Compassion however, is something that I think people should be more conscious of. I don't think someone can be taught how to feel compassionate.  I think humbling experiences are the only teacher of that.



Exactly Marie!  That's why I said it sucks sometimes because you are feeling something that isn't even yours to feel.

My best friend tells me I need emotional barriers, but that's easier said than done.

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 5:06:24 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo

Empathy is not so much understanding or sympathizing with someone's pain, but feeling it.

Empaths cannot distinguish between their own pain and someone else's.

It's like theres a certain 'emotional barrier' that they didn't receive at birth. 

Like a river that flows with no dam to stop it or change it's direction, an empath will feel someone else's pain and not be able to 'feel' the line of demarcation.  Its like getting lost in it and feeling the same as the person who is suffering feels and it takes an amazing amount of control to snap out of it, much the way we are in the midst of a nightmare and trying to wake ourselves up.

After reading the posts here, I think what some people might be talking about here is actually "compassion".  Alot of people lack compassion.  Empathy the way Im familiar with it is actually very rare.  Compassion however, is something that I think people should be more conscious of. I don't think someone can be taught how to feel compassionate.  I think humbling experiences are the only teacher of that.



Exactly Marie!  That's why I said it sucks sometimes because you are feeling something that isn't even yours to feel.

My best friend tells me I need emotional barriers, but that's easier said than done.



Im not sure if it's possible to just develope that "barrier". 

You may just as well try to grow a third arm. 

Don't you just hate when you unexpectedly get caught crying and you have to make up a reason why?  
<This is why I don't like people dropping by without calling first>. lmaoo

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 6:04:47 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Im not sure if it's possible to just develope that "barrier". 

You may just as well try to grow a third arm. 

Don't you just hate when you unexpectedly get caught crying and you have to make up a reason why?  
<This is why I don't like people dropping by without calling first>. lmaoo


Oh yes!  The unexpected tears you're left trying to explain away.  I haven't shared this in detail yet with my Master.  Not because I'm trying to hide it, but because every time I try to journal about it, I come across sounded like a fruit loop!   It really is difficult to explain to someone.

It's difficult in a relationship because you're left wondering sometimes if it's your feelings or his feelings that you're feeling.  *sigh*

Sorry we sorta hijacked your thread Kyra!



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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 6:09:17 PM   
BDSM05478


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I find that most are more at ease empathysing with others pains, worry and woe but what about the otherside? Those that claim empathic powers can you feel the joy and elation of those around you too?
On a side note I am in agreement that compassion is the most needed and least availible emotion for humankind. True humility and introspection is called to invoke that one.

_____________________________

"It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart" U.E. McGill

"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 7:29:42 PM   
BRNaughtyAngel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BDSM05478

I find that most are more at ease empathysing with others pains, worry and woe but what about the otherside? Those that claim empathic powers can you feel the joy and elation of those around you too?


Oh yes, the positive feelings are felt as well.  Very abbreviated version of a complicated story..... I knew two new friends of mine (male/female) were in love with each other before they ever went on their first official date.  I was overwhelmed with both of their feelings of unspoken affection and love for each other, and this was only the second time I was around them.  I knew these weren't my feelings in this case, but they sure felt good.

She didn't want to admit it at first, but finally did.  But she was scared and I knew it.  It could have backfired, but I took the chance and told her that he felt the same about her.  Fears were holding them both back.  They've been together for 3 months now.

As Marie said, barriers aren't possible and you can't pick and choose what you feel or where it comes from, although I get the strongest feelings from those I'm connected to in some way.  That's one of the biggest reasons I limit who I allow in my life.  It can be lonely at times, but my sanity is more important!



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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 7:47:42 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

After reading the posts here, I think what some people might be talking about here is actually "compassion".  Alot of people lack compassion.  Empathy the way Im familiar with it is actually very rare.  Compassion however, is something that I think people should be more conscious of. I don't think someone can be taught how to feel compassionate.  I think humbling experiences are the only teacher of that.


I would tend to disagree, I think many people are empathetic to varying degrees. My empathy used to cause me much pain, and it was more than pity, or putting myself into someone else's shoes and having compassion. I would pick up on other people's emotional states and internalize them as my own... that is what an empath does. Meditation and centering yourself through affirmation can help empathetic people find their center. At times I will leave a situation because I cannot separate my feelings from another person's. I think most people are this way, though they are not conscious of it, it is why conflicts escalate, the energy between people can feed on itself, whether negative or positive.



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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 9:25:42 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I think most people are this way, though they are not conscious of it, it is why conflicts escalate, the energy between people can feed on itself, whether negative or positive.




I kind of understand where you may be coming from with the conflict point, but I think it's slightly off the mark. 
I think conflicts escalate because people lack compassion and the willingness to try to understand what the other person feels.  If mutual empathy was present, we'd all be feeling the same thing and getting along well and there wouldnt be a conflict.  I think what you may be refering to is mirroring or imitating other people's behavior, giving back exactly what we're getting..ie...anger, offensiveness, an exchage of similar energy etc.  This is not the same thing as feeling what someone else is feeling. <Not for me anyway.>


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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 9:31:32 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BRNaughtyAngel

quote:

ORIGINAL: marieToo
Im not sure if it's possible to just develope that "barrier". 

You may just as well try to grow a third arm. 

Don't you just hate when you unexpectedly get caught crying and you have to make up a reason why?  
<This is why I don't like people dropping by without calling first>. lmaoo


Oh yes!  The unexpected tears you're left trying to explain away.  I haven't shared this in detail yet with my Master.  Not because I'm trying to hide it, but because every time I try to journal about it, I come across sounded like a fruit loop!   It really is difficult to explain to someone.


I find that on the rare occasion that I do speak to someone about it, I say Im just "very sensitive" and leave it at that.  I look a little bit less whacko. 


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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 9:52:49 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

I kind of understand where you may be coming from with the conflict point, but I think it's slightly off the mark. 
I think conflicts escalate because people lack compassion and the willingness to try to understand what the other person feels.  If mutual empathy was present, we'd all be feeling the same thing and getting along well and there wouldnt be a conflict.


Not if people cannot separate where their feelings begin and the other person's ends... in this case anger, love, passion all would feed upon each other in a synergy because people are unaware of it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 9:58:24 PM   
MistressSassy66


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I swear it was the lightening strike...it woke up something in My brain
that allows Me to just know things.I have strong feelings of Empathy even if not have gone through the same thing....I can feel the pain,hurt,sadness and emptiness they feel.It can be a rough thing at times.But it is part of what makes Me good at what I do.
I have always believed in looking at things from all points of view.

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 10:22:44 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I dunno, I find it funny that a lot of subs will claim they have high empathy...but then knock me down for being a big meany.

Don't they have empathy for my lack of empathy and can understand my perspective is just how I cut to the chase?


Oh, empathy is different than compassion

Just because one can feel the pain of another does not mean they care to ease it... smiles

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/13/2007 10:28:06 PM   
marieToo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I kind of understand where you may be coming from with the conflict point, but I think it's slightly off the mark. 
I think conflicts escalate because people lack compassion and the willingness to try to understand what the other person feels.  If mutual empathy was present, we'd all be feeling the same thing and getting along well and there wouldnt be a conflict.


Not if people cannot separate where their feelings begin and the other person's ends... in this case anger, love, passion all would feed upon each other in a synergy because people are unaware of it.


Firstly I think most people are very well aware and in control of their feelings. For myself, I dont go around and feel the same thing every person I speak to, debate with or otherwise talk to feels.  I kind of understand what you're saying, but I think it's a slightly different phenomena.  I think we are capable of creating a mutual energy; be it a positive one, sad one, negative one etc.
Lets say Im talking to someone who loves the Gorean lifestyle.  If I debate with them, Im not automatically going to feel their love of the Gorean lifestyle. I'd probably end up in conflict with them,  and they may feel offended by that. And then I may get pissed off because they're offended etc etc...The difference is that the anger I would be feeling is my own and it would be in response to the way I was processing the other person's behavior.  It would not be empathy for the other person. 
I can watch a sad documentary on TV and feel someone's pain and it grabs hold of me to a point where my brain forgets that it's not me experiencing the tradgedy.
In other words, I am owning a feeling that doesn't belong to me. I am owning a feeling coming from a person who is suffering....Im not the one suffering but I feel the pain as if I were.  
In a debate,  the anger or positive feelings I would be experiencing would be my own....I choose to feel good, bad, positive, negative, and to participate in that particular energy flow. With empathy,  Im stuck owning feelings that I have nothing to do with.

This is just me though.  Others may process it differently.

Edited to add wiki link.Empathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

scroll down to the sub topic "Contrasting empathy to other phenomena"...and note specifically what is called "emotional contagion".   That may be what you're talking about.  Its empathy's cousin, but different.  I think wiki explains it better than I can.

< Message edited by marieToo -- 1/13/2007 10:47:53 PM >


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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/14/2007 12:28:09 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
Just because one can feel the pain of another does not mean they care to ease it... smiles

Well then I can only call those empaths masochists because they not only claim to FEEL what I feel (sincere interest in helping someone), but still claim I'm being a meanie, thus causing me to feel bad and confused, which they supposedly can FEEL from me also.

I suppose they think the pain of the person I'm trying to help is worse than the pain they inflict on me.

Not that I tend to take them too seriously, but there are days when I get frustrated and upset with myself for not "feeling" what so many seem to take naturally, or feeling that really maybe I am just a clueless dork with no regard for others feelings.

And for so many who call themselves "empaths" to choose to call ME the bad guy, just seems very weird.

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/14/2007 7:12:33 AM   
onestandingstill


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I say watch what you ask for here kyra.
I am an empath. I always feel the emotions of those around me.
I find it a curse more than a good thing.
If anything I have full compassion for even the people who desreve NONE as they do things or don't do them that cause their feelings.
Some compassion is good, too much is worse.
suzanne



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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/14/2007 3:43:59 PM   
adaddysgirl


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Okay, i'll take a stab at this.  i am also an empath.  This is obviously not something i have chosen and up until about 4 years ago, did not even know there was a term for what i experienced.  It is definitely a rocky road and many times i wish i could just be 'normal' and deal with those around me without taking on all their emotional angst.  As someone else said....i have to put limits on who i interact with....or i could end up an 'emotional basket case'.  As it stands now, there are several movies i can't watch, i can't watch most of the news, nor read newspapers. 
 
For myself, i can only describe it as actually standing in the grieving one's shoes, feeling every ounce of their pain, whether you know them or not, and whether you've ever experienced their situation.  However, i do not feel other's anger.  It does not seem to include this....only sorrow and joy.  And it is useless to try to control.  i know this only from the number of times i've tried. 
 
But the irony is....i am not a 'crier' for myself.  Since i tend to deal with things more on a logical than emotional level, i am usually the one trying to rationally analyze things when it comes to myself.  i mean, i cried when my father died and when my son went into the Marines but for the most part, i do not cry from my own pain.  Boy, it sure does sound bizarre when trying to put it into words!
 
But this has been a different road for me than trying to see things from others' perspectives.  When i hear differing opinions, it takes me a while to accept that people are just different and because they are not me (as in, a unique individual, which everyone is in their own way), they cannot possibly process many things the same way i do.  This is somewhat of a journey for me and takes a lot of conscious thought.  Being an empath takes no such thought.  It just is.   Did this make any sense?  LOL
 
DG

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RE: Perspectives and Empathy - 1/14/2007 4:42:29 PM   
SusanofO


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When I was married, I once had a talk with a counsellor about my husband's astounding lack of empathy (he wasn't deliberately cruel, he just really, I thought, had a very small, seemingly almost non-existent, capacity to "put himself in someone else's shoes". Mine, in particular).

She didn't give me a whole lot of hope, when she asked me if he had been raised with much empathy as a child, and I said "my impression is that he wasn't". Then she said that he very likely hadn't learned it as a child, then, and nobody has displayed much of that to him except me, really, it seemed, and possibly a good friend of his here or there, so it was going to be a "slow, painstaking road" to get him to change, because -

1) He doesn't particularly want to (he wasn't simply not empathic, he was actually pretty selfish, overall) and -

2) He just has ingrained the habit of not having empathy, over decades, via not having to try to feel what someone else is feeling when he interacts with them, due to what he may be saying or doing. She even went so far as to suggest, that since he hadn't learned it by the time he was a toddler, it might have affected his developing brain chemistry as a growing child, and that this lack was now an unalterable part of his mental and emotional "make-up".

At the time, I bought what she said. But - I believe people can change. I've seen it happen with other people.

I've since come to disagree with that assessment, in part. You, Kyra, might not think you are particularly empathic, maybe you are more than you think. But anyway, if you think you're really not - then you have the advantage in actually wanting to learn how to be more empathic. That is no small thing. Of the two suggestions I have, the first might sound a little crazy, but it really could work wonders, I think,and it is -

1) Take an acting or drama class, if you live in a town that has any kind of community theater that offers one, or a small college, or a university that does. There are acting exercises that demand you develop this skill, so you can "be" whatever character you are portraying. I took some drama courses in college, and I thought they were fun, besides learning some interesting things, and getting to be cast as an actress in plays.

The other thing I might say to practice is what my mother always (naggingly) told me when I was small, if I ever did or said something to another child that she didn't like (which was rare, but occasionally happened). She'd say to me -

2) "How would you feel, if someone did  (or said) that to you? Hmmm? Just how would that feel?" Then she would make me think about it for at least five minutes, and imagine it, in order to answer her, or go write about it. I think that may have helped me.

I admire your ongoing, impressive quest for self improvement, btw. Good luck!

-Susan 

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/14/2007 5:02:09 PM >


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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

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