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Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 12:15:31 PM

wingedangel

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Joined: 8/14/2006
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The Courtship Rituals thread got me to thinking... what is the difference between vanilla and BDSM dating? Over the past couple of years, I have come across more than one Dom who makes a distinction between them, yet it feels the same to me. We go out to dinner, to the movies, to amusement parks, the beach, the mall, whatever... all the things I did when dating strictly vanilla men. Yet, each of them has said something along the lines of 'I don't want to date anyone right now' When I asked about it, all I got was 'this is BDSM'.

What is the difference? Just because at some point during the evening I usually ended up tied up and flogged or something, does that somehow change it from a date into something else? Is it something akin to the Madonna complex, where just because I am submissive and allow them to dominate me that automatically makes me not dating material?

To me, it is all connected. I don't want a partner who isn't kinky, but I don't want just kink, either. I want the whole package. Still, it seems rather common to find that Doms don't 'date'.  So, if it isn't a date, what is it?

Thoughts? Comments?

edited because I can't spell today.

< Message edited by wingedangel -- 1/14/2007 12:35:46 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 12:18:39 PM

bandit25

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Joined: 6/18/2005
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Screw those guys! I've come across some of them also. I'm like you...I want (and, lucky me, now have) the whole package.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 2

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 12:50:41 PM

classykindasassy

Posts: 291
Joined: 12/13/2005
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I(personally) have never heard of what you are talking about except if people are just playing at parties or getting together with a BDSM buddy for a strictly play date. Like any other encounter, the terms and conditions can be negotiated before you put your butt on the line, and make it clear you are looking for more than just to get played. The doms I know do date, or they tend to be clear about things sooner rather than later. Maybe our community is different.,

_____________________________

"The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine." -The Indigo Girls

(in reply to bandit25)

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RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 1:52:16 PM

Devilslilsister

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i've never come across that either.

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(in reply to classykindasassy)

Post #: 4

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 1:59:29 PM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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I have not been on a serious date since I was a freshman in college but my vanilla casual dates and my M/s potential dates still very much felt exactly the same way to me, exchanging information, seeing if there is an attraction and a building of trust. I think it comes down to semantics or people trying to put BDSM relationship on a higher, different or more noble plane then what it really is, a relationship.

Now some people in the BDSM life might put different terms or try to be more systematic about the steps but you can pretty much compare apples to apples. There are dates/interviews, online infatuation both on vanilla and this site, people not looking for anything serious unless it just happens and many other terms, goals and defenses made by all, both looking for the one and anything else.

_____________________________

I am sorry I do not fit Webster's defintion of a slave but thankfully my Master is not Webster.

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned." - H.H. The 14th Dalai Lama

(in reply to classykindasassy)

Post #: 5

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 2:14:53 PM

subexploring

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Joined: 12/28/2005
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I think that for the most part when a man says he doesn't want to "date", he is saying he wants to enjoy casual sex play with a lot of different partners. So he doesn't want the implied committment of "dating" you, which would at some point might commit him to not dating other people at the same time. I think at least some men in BDSM are there to enjoy a lifestyle that is focused on sex play, rather than emotional ties.

At least that's my read on it.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 6

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 2:28:56 PM

junecleaver

Posts: 1145
Joined: 4/6/2005
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I've come across this before as well. To have the whole package, you need to meet whole healthy people. And make sure you keep yourself in tact too. I come across a lot of people who just compartmentalize their lives to make them more manageable. I'm still not entirely convinced this is 'healthy' behavior but that's not the point. Maybe the idea of a 24/7 kind of relationship is exhausting to him? Maybe it really isn't feasible with his lifestyle right now and he doesn't want to change? I have a tendency to accidentally assume everyone thinks the same way I do, so I always have to take time to re-examine what others are really thinking. I want the whole package and it's hard for me to understand being able to enjoy the parts without the whole. Next time, you should be cautious to make sure you understand his intentions and hopefully he will be honest about those intentions so you can decide if you are compatible or whatever he is offering is worth accepting.

_____________________________

"No one will ever win the battle of the sexes; there's too much fraternizing with the enemy. "
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(in reply to Devilslilsister)

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RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 2:40:39 PM

defiantbadgirl

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What's even more messed up is that many of these same doms also go out with vanilla women and have no problem calling those vanilla encounters dates. They also have no problem falling in love and forming serious relationships and/or marrying these vanilla women. After all, there will always be some bdsm woman for them to use on the side so they can have their cake and eat it too. We are nothing but toys to them to use for temporary amusement. Once they abandon us, they probably get some sick pleasure out of thinking of us alone and crying. They have no respect for us. We are considered lower than dogs to these creeps.

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 8

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 2:54:19 PM

CoolHendersonGuy

Posts: 1
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline

WingedAngel, your profile says in part: "I am ultimately seeking an owner, but am open to play and fun in the meantime."

Whether you meet the don't-want-to-date-right-now people from your profile, or from some other situation in which your profile was not a factor, perhaps it is the message you are broadcasting, and the wideness of what you are willing to accept, which is giving you the results you are getting.

One way to obtain the result you want, more quickly, might be to eliminate the results you do not want.

As long as you are open to fun and play, you should not expect something more exclusive.

Focus your laser if you want a more focused result.

Why let someone who doesn't love you tie you up? (And then express dismay that they only want the bondage, but not a solid dating relationship.)

If you are looking for a relationship, then do not settle for activity.

CHG

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 9

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 4:27:13 PM

BDSM05478

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I agree with subexplorings statement. Unless of course they dictate every action, meal and beverage on the course of the "date" than well that could be a little different than a typical nilla date.

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"Never let the future disturb you. You will meet it, if you have to, with the same weapons of reason which today arm you against the present." - Marcus Aurelius

(in reply to subexploring)

Post #: 10

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 4:51:20 PM

Subbie4real79

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Joined: 1/10/2007
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This issue has been a big obstacle for me because I am no longer intersted in play dates. I want someone to share my life with, but the idea of having to go vanilla to find that is not a pleasant one. I think part of the problem is that some Doms see subs as just sexual objects to use. Many are not looking to settle down.

Also, when you date someone that you know is into BDSM often the conversation turns sexual long before it would in a vanilla relationship. I think this leads to the one-night stand mentality and not to the long-term relationship mentality.

(in reply to BDSM05478)

Post #: 11

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 4:56:05 PM

GentlehandSTL

Posts: 44
Joined: 9/15/2006
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From my perspective and at my age, it pretty much is the same…with a bit of a twist.

In vanilla dating, (which I have not done from the internet) you would meet, someplace, get introduced….talk on the phone…maybe a couple of times. Then ‘out’ for coffee…Saturday or Sunday morning… Then I will call and ask them out for dinner…and to a person, they have said, ‘dinner is great! Why not come on over…I’ll cook!’

So, I grab a bottle of wine out of the cellar, get flowers on the way there and she cooks dinner. We clean up, get our drinks, go sit for a bit. Then after some time of chit chat, to a person, they have said; ‘let me change out of these clothes I cooked in.’ You know what’s next, they come back in something from Victoria’s Secret, that their (now) ex bought for them, that may or may not flatter them…and…

It would seem that the goal of this evening is to establish that they can ‘take care of business’ at home.

In BDSM, much more personal info has already been exchanged…I know you love the flogger, you know I like to use rope… yet most of the time things go the same…a ‘lite’ meeting, coffee or such, often in the middle of the day…and then a second date, this time I ask and they accept dinner out, then back to one or the others place…and…

Of course, sometimes ‘we’ don’t go past coffee, now and again dinner is the only thing that happens.

(in reply to BDSM05478)

Post #: 12

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 4:59:33 PM

wingedangel

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/14/2006
Status: offline

First, I want to be clear that this is not something I am dealing with right now, just what I have niticed over time. The other thread simply prompted the question.

Second, I don't want to stifle remarks in any way, as I am interested in any thoughts other members may have. I did mean in my post, however, those Doms who see the same person multiple times, regularly, just like vanilla dating. I am not referring to one night stands, play between strangers at parties, or those who meet just to scene and go home. I am specifically talking about the Doms who take their subs out to dinner, movies, art galleries and anywhere else they might take a vanilla girlfriend, but who happen to include a little BDSM play before the evening is over.

Please, continue with the comments... :)

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 13

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:23:32 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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If someone was not interested in me as long term relationship material they would not get the pleasure of my company... as such I would not allow a person that did not want to date me to establish such a relationship to dominate me or share my company in an intimate way. I know there are women that are looking for someone to play with that are not interested in more than "good times" too, so men like you describe in your OP should hook up with them.

Those of you who do not want to be treated like that, ask the men you are interested about these issues. Ask them BEFORE you start doing BDSM with them. Ask them if they "date" their subs, ask them if they would have a long term relationship with a submissive.. ask them all manner of questions before you make yourself vulnerable to them.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/14/2007 5:24:13 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 14

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:30:18 PM

kyraofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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Date... What is a date? What is considered dating?

I don't think that my Lord and I have been on what would typically be considered a date. We have gone to dinner, movies, parties, clubs, etc, but it was not dating. By the time we did any of these things, I was already his. Most of these things have been done with the three of us as well. It is very rare for it to only be two of us doing these things.

Knight's kyra

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"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to wingedangel)

Post #: 15

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:30:50 PM

KnightofMists

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What's even more messed up is that many of these same doms also go out with vanilla women and have no problem calling those vanilla encounters dates. They also have no problem falling in love and forming serious relationships and/or marrying these vanilla women. After all, there will always be some bdsm woman for them to use on the side so they can have their cake and eat it too. We are nothing but toys to them to use for temporary amusement. Once they abandon us, they probably get some sick pleasure out of thinking of us alone and crying. They have no respect for us. We are considered lower than dogs to these creeps.

Your bitterness comes out in spades with this post... I suspecty someone hurt you and/or someone you care about very badly.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 16

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:33:29 PM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
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Now that is excellent advice Julia. I do have a question though. How would you go about asking a man those types of questions without seeming "needy" and scaring him off?

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 17

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:38:26 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

Date... What is a date? What is considered dating?

This made me chuckle. Master and I never dated either. We spoke for two months, and then I went to him and served him - not casually (he's not into the "casual" thing), but to offer myself to him. I have belonged to him ever since. He did not court me. I wanted and needed to submit to him, and we never did the boyfriend/girlfriend/dating thing. It just isn't his thing, and I was quite fine with that.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 18

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 5:56:11 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Now that is excellent advice Julia. I do have a question though. How would you go about asking a man those types of questions without seeming "needy" and scaring him off?

\

By not being needy. If you are not needy then you do not need to worry that he will see you that way. The same goes for desperate too. If someone sees you as something that you are not, what they are really seeing is what they put there, not you... so does it matter?

Personally I was not that concerned with how strangers I was getting to know viewed me. They should be worrying about how I view them

. I know, that is not necessarily a very "submissive" vibe, but hey, until I submit I am not going to be submissive to someone. And no, I am not one of these "tame me" sorts either.

It comes down to being yourself, only sharing that self with people that will respect you. I tend to put it all out there, right from the start, and realize if someone is incapable of being what I desire, well I want to find that out as soon as possible.... and I am not exclusive with anyone until I choose to be. That attitude works well for me in my life.

Now I have made the mistake of being too nice, of compromising myself and my desires, and I had to ask myself "How's that working for you, Julia?" and I did not like the answer. If something is not working for you, you had better change your strategy! Best answer is be who you are, and you will attract the person that is right for you, being other people is never going to work. It just is inauthentic... that was what I meant... BE hard to get... don't play it.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Post #: 19

RE: Vanilla dating vs. BDSM dating - 1/14/2007 6:18:37 PM

isis1013

Posts: 4
Joined: 5/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Also, when you date someone that you know is into BDSM often the conversation turns sexual long before it would in a vanilla relationship. I think this leads to the one-night stand mentality and not to the long-term relationship mentality.

I have experienced this firsthand. I have seen men posted on CollarMe or other D/s sites, who also have a profile posted on vanilla date sites like Match or Yahoo personals. On a few occasions I have met with these men when they contacted me through the vanilla site; they did not know I was into BDSM. (and I'm SOOOOO naughty for not telling them right away! hehehe)

On these meetings, sex doesn't come up right away and he seems to tiptoe around it, whether it's through the first, or second, or third time we get together - I almost have to initiate it. (By the way, I don't call these 'dates' because the traditional date where the man pays for me just doesn't seem fair, so I either offer to pay for both or for myself.)

But when the man knows I am submissive/kinky, even if he met me on the vanilla site, the subject cuts right away to sex and it seems he is almost expecting that our first meeting will end up in a 'scene'. So I would agree that if people know about someone's sexual preference before meeting, there tends to be a greater expectation of something sexual happening right away.

It's almost as if, once we openly acknowledge our sexual preference, that we become defined by it - we're no longer looked at as just a woman, but as a sexually kinky woman who therefore is going to be more open about having sex with someone she just met.

But is this good or bad? It can be either, depending on how both parties feel about each other and about casual sex/casual BDSM. If you're feeling that animalistic sensation come over you on a first meeting; if looking into his eyes makes your heart race; if the mere touch of his hand on yours causes your clit to harden and moisture to seep between your legs; then why not?

Go for it if you are sure he's safe. Woman need sex as much as men do, so why not have a 'one night stand' if that's what you both want? I won't judge women who do this (and neither should anyone else when it comes to consensual sex).

Or, you can hold out, suppress your sexual desires (and invest in a good vibrator), and wait for a serious relationship with a Dom who is also looking for a serious relationship.

I go out for social (and sometimes sexual) fun with vanilla men, but I am truly seeking to meet one special man who shares the same predilictions I do, have us both fall in love, and then grow old and kinky together.

Will that happen? Well, I'm a realist and there's a good chance it won't, because as time and years pass I not only become less desirable to some men, but the quantity of available men is reduced. But I'm not the type to sit around at home waiting for my Dom in shining armor to come along. So, to make life more interesting and to enjoy the company of men (by the way, did I mention I LOVE men? hehehe), I will continue to vanilla-date until I find someone I'm completely compatible with in this lifestyle.

isis

(in reply to Subbie4real79)

Post #: 20

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