quote:

ORIGINAL: sleazy

I would be interested to find out just how rich all these ranchers are. Certainly here in the UK an awful lot of farmers actually live well under the poverty line. I would suspect there are many "rich" ranchers in a similar situation.

On the other hand, without all those cattle being fed here and now, how are the poor going to be fed in a few months time? Or is that unimportant as long as the people responsible for producing food get a virtual kicking for being such capitalists? What if it was a need to fly wheat seed into Kansas to allow bread to baked?

I cant help but smell an awful lot of sour grapes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

More than likely.
 
Think it was boy george who sung the lines 'war, war is stupid and people are stupid'. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

More than likely.
 
Think it was boy george who sung the lines 'war, war is stupid and people are stupid'. [:D]

"A person is smart.  People are dumb, stupid, and panicky animals and you know it."
                                                                     Tommy Lee Jones, Men In Black
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

The Air Guard flies around on training missions for no reason except to train.  When they get to do something directly usefull at the same time, it really doesn't cost anymore.  The helicopters would still get the air time, the Pilots would still get the training time.  Here in Alaska they go rescue mountaineers, they consider it practice.  The extra cost was hay.  If you want to pretend I am a pure free enterprise person, go ahead, that's not my position, I suppose you must try to change the subject in such a  manner for some reason.  I see nothing wrong with the gov helping out after a disaster, why do you?

laughable??  what part of it is laughable?  Sanitation is serious stuff.  People get sick and die.  If you eat you poop.  If you have to sit in your poop with your kids, they get sick and die.  It's not laughable.  Katrina was a fuck up on a massive level, primarily the locals.  I asked you before, at what point would you have had Bush illegally take over New Orleans(and evacuate it by force)?  or the whole state?  region?  What would be the criteria?

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action. Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order."

Because they're not properly trained to restore order themselves.

That's the lesson. DO NOT LOOK FOR HELP. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You know, that's the lesson of 9/11, too. The people who got OUT of the WTC after the initial strikes? They did NOT listen to their bosses, who told them "It's ok, just go back to work". The SURVIVORS just picked up and got the hell out.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action. Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order."

Because they're not properly trained to restore order themselves.

That's the lesson. DO NOT LOOK FOR HELP. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You know, that's the lesson of 9/11, too. The people who got OUT of the WTC after the initial strikes? They did NOT listen to their bosses, who told them "It's ok, just go back to work". The SURVIVORS just picked up and got the hell out.

I was reading an article on this in Psychology Today a year or two ago.  Panic reactions generally result in bad outcomes in the modern world, but in the case of the WTC, those people who panicked survived.

Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

There is a waiting list for free/cost seats on Millitary Planes. \
The only people allowed to fly on military airplains are active duty military and their family and retired military and their family.  First priority goes to active duty on orders, active duty on leave, retired  and finally family under certain circumstances.  The only civilians I know of who can fly on military aircraft are government officials on official government business.  The flight is free and if you are not priority 1...active duty on orders or government service on orders, your status is space available.  I have flown all over the world for free ,space available, on military aircraft.  If the one I wanted was full I just waited till one came up that had room. Never did I have to wait for more than 24 hours.

It is up the people of Colorado to decide how to use thier tax money.  The feds didn't do that.  If Coloradons do not like how they are goverened they can kick the govenor out.  But I bet the majority of them are glad that the cows did not die suffering.  I bet they are also glad that the Beef herd was saved, along with all the food that is going to be sold, and taxed. 
The people of Colorado did not vote to have the government spend their money to give welfare to rich cattle barrons.  How much would you like to bet that the people of  Colorado are in favor of welfare for the rich.  Since when does the government tax food?

This is where it really is tompson, the taxes from the cows saved by the minimal extra cost action, will be used by the elected gov of Colorado( and perhaps localities), to pay for public schools, hospitals, neo natal health care, adult literacy programs, ect.  These will benefit the poor of Colorado. 
Schools are paid for from property tax not the general fund.


You dont care about them, you just want to hurt the ranchers and those you percieve as their allies. 
I am not interested in hurting ranchers I just don't feel that the rich should be getting welfare.


You just want them to suffer, if it means less money for the schools who cares. 
Nope: I just want them to play by the same rules the little guy has to play by. If I owned a ski resort and it did not snow this year do you think the government should cover my losses?

I see the world very differently.  
That is pretty obvious.

It is similar you not caring about the effects of thousands of puonds of fecees and urine in the shelters of Katrina.  You simply don't give a damn about the people acutally suffering there. 
What part of New Orleans was an open sewer did you not understand?  The addition of a few more tons of shit would not make any difference.

The leftists/democrats started lying about how many were dead ( the racist weasel from Jefferson Parrish who orded his people to force the blacks back into the city was one of them)before the storm ended,
I think I have stated on more than one post that I find no difference between the republicrats and the demopubs....this is not a red and blue controversy so please do not try to put words in my mouth to make it one.

I can see where you would have liked the Cholera to have been much worse, imagine the anti Bush ads you could make from the piles of the bodies.  Instead of dealing with the real issues you just want to use thier suffering as a political tool.
Really you have to get off of this red and blue thing.  That was not and is not the point I was making.

My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action.  Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order.
Perhaps you should do a bit more reading about just how much lack of order there really was. One good site that is indicative of the level of order is the account of the U.S Coast Guard. 
When the feds went into New Orleans and started disarming the citizenery I did not see anyone applauding that.  No one begged for someone to pick up a stick.  All they were begging for was food and water.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Fucking strange how the rich want welfare when they hit hard times but they are happy to kick the poor whern things are good for them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydog1

There is a waiting list for free/cost seats on Millitary Planes. \
The only people allowed to fly on military airplains are active duty military and their family and retired military and their family.  First priority goes to active duty on orders, active duty on leave, retired  and finally family under certain circumstances.  The only civilians I know of who can fly on military aircraft are government officials on official government business.  The flight is free and if you are not priority 1...active duty on orders or government service on orders, your status is space available.  I have flown all over the world for free ,space available, on military aircraft.  If the one I wanted was full I just waited till one came up that had room. Never did I have to wait for more than 24 hours.   As I mentioned in my previous post, millitary planes rescue hurt civilians all the time.  They get to train under real conditions, its a win win situation.  Same goes for dropping a little hay

It is up the people of Colorado to decide how to use thier tax money.  The feds didn't do that.  If Coloradons do not like how they are goverened they can kick the govenor out.  But I bet the majority of them are glad that the cows did not die suffering.  I bet they are also glad that the Beef herd was saved, along with all the food that is going to be sold, and taxed. 
The people of Colorado did not vote to have the government spend their money to give welfare to rich cattle barrons.  How much would you like to bet that the people of  Colorado are in favor of welfare for the rich.  Since when does the government tax food?  The people of Colorado certainly did vote for the government that made that decision.  They have been voting for what you term "welfare for the rich" consistently for over 100 years, so yeah I will take that bet.  So are you saying you are opposed to representative democratic republics?  I did not realise you hated the constitution of the USA.  I understand you better now.  The government always(indirectly) taxes food, but I was refering to the income taxes paid by the ranchers, and the income(and property) taxes paid by the people who work in the associated fields( slaughtering, preserving, shipping, marketing, ect.)  You know all the people who would be laid off if the Beef herd was destroyed.  All the people (and thier kids)who would then require gov help.

This is where it really is tompson, the taxes from the cows saved by the minimal extra cost action, will be used by the elected gov of Colorado( and perhaps localities), to pay for public schools, hospitals, neo natal health care, adult literacy programs, ect.  These will benefit the poor of Colorado. 
Schools are paid for from property tax not the general fund.  I notice you didn't even attempt to argue with the other things I asserted are paid from Colorado state taxes.  But you are flat out wrong,  "Colorado public schools receive funding from a variety of sources. However, most revenues to Colorado's 178 school districts are provided through the Public School Finance Act of 1994 (as amended). In budget year 2006-07, this legislation provides for over $4.7 billion of funding to Colorado school districts via state taxes ($3.04 billion), local specific ownership (vehicle registration) taxes ($170.6 million), and local property taxes ($1.57 billion). Moneys provided via the Public School Finance Act of 1994 are available to each school district to fund the costs of providing public education. Follow the links below for more information."  http://www.cde.state.co.us/index_finance.htm


You dont care about them, you just want to hurt the ranchers and those you percieve as their allies. 
I am not interested in hurting ranchers I just don't feel that the rich should be getting welfare.


You just want them to suffer, if it means less money for the schools who cares. 
Nope: I just want them to play by the same rules the little guy has to play by. If I owned a ski resort and it did not snow this year do you think the government should cover my losses?  Um, the little guy gets all kinds of gov help, besides actuall welfare.  So why begrudge the cost of a little hay, as I have explained several times, they fly around to train anyway, so that's not really a cost.  As to the Ski resort, it would be up to the local/state governments to decide if they want to or not.  In my city we subsidise a ski area, because it is good for the community, and employs lots of people.  Our big ski area has gotten many federal grants over the years.

I see the world very differently.  
That is pretty obvious.  Yes you like to pretend stuff and ignore reality.  For instance how Colorado funds its schools.  Or that sanitation doesnt matter.

It is similar you not caring about the effects of thousands of puonds of fecees and urine in the shelters of Katrina.  You simply don't give a damn about the people acutally suffering there. 
What part of New Orleans was an open sewer did you not understand?  The addition of a few more tons of shit would not make any difference.  Which is why I specifically mentioned "in the Shelters", where it would indeed have made a huge difference.

The leftists/democrats started lying about how many were dead ( the racist weasel from Jefferson Parrish who orded his people to force the blacks back into the city was one of them)before the storm ended,
I think I have stated on more than one post that I find no difference between the republicrats and the demopubs....this is not a red and blue controversy so please do not try to put words in my mouth to make it one.  I didnt call you a blue or a Democrat.  I stated that Leftists and Democrats engaged in exactly what you are doing.

I can see where you would have liked the Cholera to have been much worse, imagine the anti Bush ads you could make from the piles of the bodies.  Instead of dealing with the real issues you just want to use thier suffering as a political tool.
Really you have to get off of this red and blue thing.  That was not and is not the point I was making.  I never said anything about Red and Blue, you did.  One does not have to be a Democrat (or Blue) to be anti Bush. 

My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action.  Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order.
Perhaps you should do a bit more reading about just how much lack of order there really was. One good site that is indicative of the level of order is the account of the U.S Coast Guard. 
When the feds went into New Orleans and started disarming the citizenery I did not see anyone applauding that.  No one begged for someone to pick up a stick.  All they were begging for was food and water.
No they were begging for a lot more than food and water.  In fact people in different parts of the area were needing different things.  The coast guard was just in the navigable parts of the city, they were not in the shelters where most people were.  The parts in Anarchy.   The rich neighboorhoods stayed dry, and they set up armed guards, even a few Bars stayed open the entire time.
thompson

\Luckydog

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action. Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order."

Because they're not properly trained to restore order themselves.

That's the lesson. DO NOT LOOK FOR HELP. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You know, that's the lesson of 9/11, too. The people who got OUT of the WTC after the initial strikes? They did NOT listen to their bosses, who told them "It's ok, just go back to work". The SURVIVORS just picked up and got the hell out.

I was reading an article on this in Psychology Today a year or two ago.  Panic reactions generally result in bad outcomes in the modern world, but in the case of the WTC, those people who panicked survived.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
I think you are doing the suvivors of that incident an injustice to characterize their actions to leave a burning building against their bosses orders as panic.  To think and act creatively in a stressful situation is not panic.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action. Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order."

Because they're not properly trained to restore order themselves.

That's the lesson. DO NOT LOOK FOR HELP. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You know, that's the lesson of 9/11, too. The people who got OUT of the WTC after the initial strikes? They did NOT listen to their bosses, who told them "It's ok, just go back to work". The SURVIVORS just picked up and got the hell out.

I was reading an article on this in Psychology Today a year or two ago.  Panic reactions generally result in bad outcomes in the modern world, but in the case of the WTC, those people who panicked survived.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
I think you are doing the suvivors of that incident an injustice to characterize their actions to leave a burning building against their bosses orders as panic.  To think and act creatively in a stressful situation is not panic.
thompson

From the anecdotal accounts of their actions given to their therapists and friends, they themselves described their actions as panic.

I am simply relaying an article in a magazine without personal judgement.

Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
You know or should know that a persons conversations with their therapist are confidential.
As a grad student you should also know the value of anecdotal data.
thompson

quote:

From the anecdotal accounts of their actions given to their therapists and friends, they themselves described their actions as panic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

"My point in mentioning Katrina in the first place was that it was an example of Anarchy in action. Its horrible and people beg for someone to pick up a stick and restore order."

Because they're not properly trained to restore order themselves.

That's the lesson. DO NOT LOOK FOR HELP. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

You know, that's the lesson of 9/11, too. The people who got OUT of the WTC after the initial strikes? They did NOT listen to their bosses, who told them "It's ok, just go back to work". The SURVIVORS just picked up and got the hell out.

I was reading an article on this in Psychology Today a year or two ago.  Panic reactions generally result in bad outcomes in the modern world, but in the case of the WTC, those people who panicked survived.

Sinergy

Sinergy:
I think you are doing the suvivors of that incident an injustice to characterize their actions to leave a burning building against their bosses orders as panic.  To think and act creatively in a stressful situation is not panic.
thompson

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Sinergy:
Would you please give me the month and year of the magazine article you were refering to?  I would like to read it.
thompson