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RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 9:28:15 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

FirmhandKY. If you really believe this administration is doing a good job and all the people that criticize it are wrong, you would have approved of the Captain of the Titanic sailing straight for the iceburg.


Kinda funny meat, but not too much.

Actually, I don't think this administration is doing a very good job at all, in a lot of respects.  I rank it at about a "C-" overall. 

But I do believe that it is doing some things right, or at least better than any one else who might have held the decision-making positions (read Kerry or Algore). 

You and many others seem to confuse not "jumping on the trash-them bandwagon" with "total unthinking approval".

I try to weigh the facts, and not jump to conclusions just based on emotions.

FirmKY


facts?.

Here are some facts for your scale.

http://www.sovereignty.net/p/gov/gganalysis.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I woudl be very interested to hear your take on it


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/19/2007 9:40:11 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 9:32:39 AM   
odinlove


Posts: 99
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline 		tHINK HAPPY THOUGHTS.

< Message edited by odinlove -- 1/19/2007 9:33:30 AM >

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 10:04:26 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

facts?.

Here are some facts for your scale.

http://www.sovereignty.net/p/gov/gganalysis.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I woudl be very interested to hear your take on it


Real0ne,

This is a "broadside" rhetorical "attack".

What, specifically, do you wish me to comment on?  I'm not planning on reading umpteen pages of misc material, and then guess what point you are trying to make.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 10:34:30 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

facts?.

Here are some facts for your scale.

http://www.sovereignty.net/p/gov/gganalysis.htm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports.htm

http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I woudl be very interested to hear your take on it


Real0ne,

This is a "broadside" rhetorical "attack".

What, specifically, do you wish me to comment on?  I'm not planning on reading umpteen pages of misc material, and then guess what point you are trying to make.

FirmKY



ok let me rephrase the question.

Have you ever read the procedes from the commission on global governance?

Have you ever read PNAC?

Have you ever examined the objectives of either or both of them?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/19/2007 10:35:07 AM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 10:55:24 AM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		PNAC, yes, and I don't see it as any type of conspiracy.

"Global Governance" I've heard of, but dismiss as unrealistic, unwanted and unlikely.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 11:05:02 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

"To initiate a war of aggression,'' said the tribunal's judgment, "is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.''
1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal

Yet Bush, Blair, Olmert and who knows how many others have not been charged in any courts. Is there any accountability?



Jack, it certainly doesn't look like there is any accountability.

Forget any international ruling as both governments will simply ignore it. If these people are to be held accountable they will have to be tried in the US and Britain. I'd be very surprised if there is any real groundswell of opinion in the US to haul bush & associates in front of a jury - why? because it's also an indictment of US society - same with Britain. They are elected by the people whether we like it or not. It could easily be argued that the US and British governments are in Iraq simply because the respective populations aren't particularly interested in government actions (thus, they have a mandate for anything and everything).

The problem is cultural and social failings which produce a people more interested in reality television than the actions of government. The answer is education but I've no idea how you convince an establishment and government to educate a people who they have by the short ones.



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Jack45)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 11:18:57 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I don't think I was discussing Wilkerson at all.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 11:21:40 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
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quote:

Guess who said this....
The answer is education but I've no idea how you convince an establishment and government to educate a people who they have by the short ones
.

As usual a post making a point that is totally at variance with what is actually happening in the UK.
More money in real terms, by a very large factor, is now spent on state education than has ever been spent at any time in our history.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 11:25:33 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The point being that giving the current administration a C- is just another example of "Social Promotion".

Let's grade that out a bit more:

Heading OFF 9/11: 0/10
Capturing Bin Ladin: 0/10
Kicking Taliban out of Afghanistan: 5/10 ( They're back... )
WMD in Iraq: 0/10
Hussein a Threat: 0/10
Getting rid of Baath Party: 5/10 ( They're back, too. )
Preventing North Korea from develop Nuke Missiles : 0/10

that's 10 of 70, and that ain't no C+

What other objective measures would you include, and how would you subjectively score them?

Let's discuss the Bush Administration's Report Card...






< Message edited by farglebargle -- 1/19/2007 11:27:23 AM >

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 11:32:36 AM   
sleazy


Posts: 781
Joined: 11/23/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave


quote:

Guess who said this....
The answer is education but I've no idea how you convince an establishment and government to educate a people who they have by the short ones
.

As usual a post making a point that is totally at variance with what is actually happening in the UK.
More money in real terms, by a very large factor, is now spent on state education than has ever been spent at any time in our history.


NG, I suspect that it would be like convincing a shark to turn vegan.

Seeks, I see the numbers, but the results dont match. Ive worked on and off for the same company for most my working life, I joined with O levels, now to get in at the ground level anything less than an OND wont even get an interview. In fact having had a quick think, the only under 30's in here are ones that have come out of the military and are still basically doing the same job they were doing for the Queen's shilling.


Apathy and stupidity are a great foundation for a dictatorship.

_____________________________

Opinion is packaged by weight not volume, contents may settle during transit. Consult you medical practitioner. Do not attempt to stop moving parts by hand. Ensure all safety shields in place. Open this way up. Do not expose to temperatures exceeding 50C

(in reply to seeksfemslave)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 12:13:47 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Not that it matters what anyone else says (they will all be idiots, etc ... )
 
The economy isn't all that bad.
 
Unemployment is pretty low.
 
Many far left agenda's have been stopped (which, while not what I would have wanted, was a campaign promise that has been kept).
 
There hasn't been any attacks on American soil (again, we may not like the method, but it's reality and also a campaign promise).
 
The courts moved more to the right (same as above ... not what I wanted, but it was what was promissed).
 
We basically gutted our involvement in the UN (probably not smart, but it was a campaign point).
 
... so ... to me, it's not that President Bush hasn't kept his promisses, as much as we don't like how he got it done.
 
Now, you can call him and his supporters stupid if you like ... but that only makes you look like the very thing our side is accused of, egotistical elitists that think everyone else is stupid. We don't convince people our way is better, by telling them they and the people they voted for are stupid ... so, they elect whom they elect.
 
In a way, people like you are just as responsible for President Bush's election, as the people that voted for him.
 
Peace ...

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 12:31:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

PNAC, yes, and I don't see it as any type of conspiracy.

"Global Governance" I've heard of, but dismiss as unrealistic, unwanted and unlikely.

FirmKY



i dont see pnac as a conspiracy either i see it as the methodology and procedural script for the implementation of us imperialism.

There is no conspiracy when examining it on a micro level as many here seem to do.  To the best of my knowledge it is impossible to unravel even the most simplistic conspiracy when the examination is restricted to a compatmentalized micro level.

However when examining these in terms of a macro level and integrating them with past and current events such as:  (the short list)
a)  The time of creation
b)  The people who created it with their backgrounds
c)  The positions of power these people occupy now and previoulsy
d)  Associates and affiliates of these same people
e)  The movement of people as events occur
f)  Current events that align with the script(s)
g)  Follow the money/power/control  who benifits

All serve to paint an entirely different picture than found on the micro level. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
"Global Governance" I've heard of, but dismiss as unrealistic, unwanted and unlikely.


Did you want the patriot act?  i didnt!  i was dead against it, literally everyone i know personally was and is dead against it.  but its here.

10 years ago most people and maybe even you would have laughed at me had i told you the patriot act would come into existance in the us.

you would have said: dismiss as unrealistic, unwanted and unlikely? 

To the contrary, from what i can tell we are following the world script reasonably well so far as well as the pnac script with among other things military increases to 3.8%/gross, the modern day unifying pearl harbor,  we are the world police, exactly as recommended in the script.

i have not dismissed it out of hand prior to at least looking at it and comparing it to world events so i can see where we would have vastly differing opinions onthese matters. 


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to FirmhandKY)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 12:35:27 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jack45

"To initiate a war of aggression,'' said the tribunal's judgment, "is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.''
1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal

Yet Bush, Blair, Olmert and who knows how many others have not been charged in any courts. Is there any accountability?



Jack, it certainly doesn't look like there is any accountability.

Forget any international ruling as both governments will simply ignore it. If these people are to be held accountable they will have to be tried in the US and Britain. I'd be very surprised if there is any real groundswell of opinion in the US to haul bush & associates in front of a jury - why? because it's also an indictment of US society - same with Britain. They are elected by the people whether we like it or not. It could easily be argued that the US and British governments are in Iraq simply because the respective populations aren't particularly interested in government actions (thus, they have a mandate for anything and everything).

The problem is cultural and social failings which produce a people more interested in reality television than the actions of government. The answer is education but I've no idea how you convince an establishment and government to educate a people who they have by the short ones.




excellent post NG!  Right dead on target imo!


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 1:21:19 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Excellent post, caitlyn.

FirmKY


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 2:14:55 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

Not that it matters what anyone else says (they will all be idiots, etc ... )
 
The economy isn't all that bad.
 
Unemployment is pretty low.
 
Many far left agenda's have been stopped (which, while not what I would have wanted, was a campaign promise that has been kept).
 
There hasn't been any attacks on American soil (again, we may not like the method, but it's reality and also a campaign promise).
 
The courts moved more to the right (same as above ... not what I wanted, but it was what was promissed).
 
We basically gutted our involvement in the UN (probably not smart, but it was a campaign point).
 
... so ... to me, it's not that President Bush hasn't kept his promisses, as much as we don't like how he got it done.
 
Now, you can call him and his supporters stupid if you like ... but that only makes you look like the very thing our side is accused of, egotistical elitists that think everyone else is stupid. We don't convince people our way is better, by telling them they and the people they voted for are stupid ... so, they elect whom they elect.
 
In a way, people like you are just as responsible for President Bush's election, as the people that voted for him.
 
Peace ...


ya we are in great shape.

The debt is what? like 65ish % gdp?  That means we all owe 30,000.00 bucks in taxes to pay it down this second, one second from now there will be more interest tacked on it.

Have there been any attempts to attack on american soil?

Did so much as even One solitary person get demoted for the gross nationwide/securitywidefb wide/ cia wide /norad wide/ incompetance in the last on soil attack?  NO they got promoted! 

Well i cannot give a president kudos who rips up the constitution to keep his promises.

You mean it wasnt a foregone conclusion that bush was bought in?  as was clinton?  as was kennedy?

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/19/2007 2:27:02 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 2:39:56 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		I was not giving him kudos ... just pointing out that saying he hasn't kept any of his campaign promisses, is not accurate.
 
It does our cause no good, to promote the inaccurate, as a matter of fact, it does us harm. When you combine promoting the inaccurate, with insisting that everyone is stupid, it's almost tragic.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 3:05:41 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline 		Real0ne,

Time to trim the herd!

Sincerely,
Guy Fawkes.



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 3:50:07 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

I was not giving him kudos ... just pointing out that saying he hasn't kept any of his campaign promisses, is not accurate.
 
It does our cause no good, to promote the inaccurate, as a matter of fact, it does us harm. When you combine promoting the inaccurate, with insisting that everyone is stupid, it's almost tragic.



oh i am not saying people are stoopid now, on the other hand since you brought it up there does exist in this world many very intelligent people who have their heads so far in the sand they are enjoying egg rolls in china. (referring to no one in particular)

well the whole thrust of your post was good job or at least a-ok job jw.

What inaccuracies?

What cause is that? 





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 3:51:56 PM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline 		I have a question. If Bush was the second biggest threat to world peace only behind saddam hussein according to a british poll, does that mean with saddams death he is now the number one threat?

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Threat to world peace??????? - 1/19/2007 4:00:44 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:


Unemployment is pretty low.


4.5%, right?

4.5% of 100,000,000 =

4,500,000 unemployed.

FOUR AND ONE HALF MILLION UNEMPLOYED.

Yeah, I guess that's pretty low. As long as you're not one of the four and a half million.

That's a LOT of people.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to caitlyn)
Profile   Post #: 180
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