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celestia -> RE: Married slaves, can they be owned? (3/2/2005 8:42:43 PM)
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OK, I see it is time for me to appear again. I was not going to, you all are doing a fine job discussing this amongst your selves, but I am persuaded easily.
I orginally posted these questions because of another thread, and I wanted to see what others had to say on the matter. Some have stated their opinions as a whole for everyone and some have directed their replys towards me so I will take the time to delve into this tid-bit a little more.
Leonidas,
You are correct I did start this thread because of the other one you are involved in, and the issues that were mentioned there. I am quite clear on where you stand, but I thank you for reiterating for those who may not have been involved or read it the first time.
May I ask what statastics have you read that say "most married women" get a good vibrator and have a nice fantasy life. Drop the married from that phrase and you may be closer. Why would it be married women that were the big vibrator buyers, they have husbands to use for that. I would think the single women would have the bigger market.
Now lets do some definitions once again, shall we?
tryst - 1)an apt to meet, one made by lovers
2)an appointed meeting, or meeting place.
I am willing to bet that you mean number one in your response, and that can not hold true because there is not a love issue between myself and a Master. If you are using the second definition, then yes I like everyone else that is meeting up in this world am having a tryst. In fact, you and I will being having a tryst on the 12th according to this definition. Hmmmmm.
slave - 1) a human being who is owned as property of another.
2)one dominated by some influence.
As you have also stated, the first means that the slave is property, the second that the slave is controled by the suggestions, commands, desires of one above them (Dom = above, sub = lower/below ) I am not negating your definition of this. It is his right to command and the slaves duty to comply. However, to say that someone who is committed to another person in a totally different manner can not be defined by the above is absurd.
Lets break this down...I am a human being, I wear the collar of a Dom, perhaps only physical at times, but mentally always. I do not need a materialistic symbol around my throat to prove this to myself, but if it please him to show me as his to others in this form then so be it. When he speaks I obey. I am dominated by his influence. It does not matter that he does not speak of my relationship with my husband, that does not concern him at this point. Do you speak with your sub about things that have no interest to you?
I am sure in the Masters eyes, when he speaks with me and directs me, my marriage does not exsist. It certainly does not play into how he handles me, he does not ask "is this ok with your husband, or what will he think?" And I would not wish that he did, because I am his to do with as he pleases, and that is understood between all.
"It would be reduced to your master allowing you to cohabitate with a man because it happened to be convenient for him to do so."
Convenience, hmmmmm, yes I guess in our case it is convenient for him to allow me to retain my marriage, but that is the path he chooses when taking up slaves. A choice made by the Master, he could have easily refused me if he did not think I could properly serve his needs.
"(If)Taggard ever succeeds at enslaving you, truly, you will have chosen, celestia. That would be the last choice you would make, for as long as you were a slave. "
I have made my choice and am acting upon it. I accept my slave nature, embrace it, and wish for it to continue. I can not agree to sit on the sidelines (with my vibrator) watching my life go by in unhappiness. That does not mean I am in anyway unhappy with my married life, it only means for my own personal happiness I need to be enslaved.
"To my way of thinking there is no special cache in being a man's slave. It's not a special badge of honor that you must claim to be 'real'."
I am glad I do not abide by your way of thinking on this topic. I consider it a great honor to be a man's slave. To be seen as a possesion he desires and will take pride in. I wear that "special badge" around my throat so that I can openly claim what I am to others. Therefore, I want to be seen as a slave and you telling me that is not a possiblity, is frustrating, because I still haven't seen anything here that can say otherwise.
"I know that you think I am being unkind to you."
Unkind? No. Stubborn? Heck yes.
"I will say to you the same thing that I said to my girl before she knelt and begged to be collared: If you feel that you could choose anything but to live as a slave, you should. It's kind of like being an artist; something that you should only do if you must. "
I wasn't going to let myself get into my past and really delve into what drives me, but I guess I must ease the lid back a little to explain to you, Leonidas. I have gone back and forth with being a slave to just being vanilla, for my entire adult life. Thinking I could shelf it as "play". I thought I could live without it, and tried to fill my time with other interests, to no avail. Time and time again it crept back into my world and slapped me in the ass, saying why aren't you out there doing what you are ment to do? So I would head right back into the fray in search of a Master. I found a few, some good, some not so great, but it seemed each time I was with one they would fall into that "love" thing, and in all my experience that has only weakened their hand on me. They became more concerned with the romance and forgot who they were originally. I am not saying this happens in all cases, I know it dosen't. But for me I needed a Master that was going to stay a Master and maintain that upper hand, because I do not think that love plays a part in this for me. I am a slave who does not desire the love of the one she serves, let him keep that for his romantic life. Now you can't argue that, if we were pre-civil war, as Taggard and others keep bringing up to explain themselves....Most Masters did not hold romantic interests for their slaves, and if they did, god forbid they exhibited it. And I am certain slaves held love interests other than their Masters ( married or not).
All in all I am saying that I do chose to be a slave, and can not think of being anything else. That does not mean I don't have other interests, everyone does, I just know, that for me, I need to keep them seperate.
Now on to some others...
Taggards descript on the bidding block and a master bidding on one that meets his needs, was excellent. A Master is going to look for the best property to suit him. Are we going to deny a Master the ability to call a girl his slave, if she suits his needs but does not meet the needs of another Master, or are we saying that the man is not a Master if he sets limits for his own choice of who he will chose to be in his service?
Alexander,
There is no need for the husband to join the conversation. He is seperate from the D/s relationship. What I am asking is, if you think it is possible for a slave to be owned, if that slave is married? Not what the husband thinks on the matter.
"Full blown slaves can be disobediant little sluts compared to a girl in training..."
Girls in training can be this too *wink*, they just have to accept the consequences. Which in turn maybe what they are desiring.
Merc and beth,
I don't feel I need to elaborate on my specific situation, because it was more of a general " putting it out there" to see what others thought, but I will define some things a bit better.
1) Does it matter what kind of marriage? ...Are you going to say it is ok for one type of marriage but not another. It's ok for failing marriages, but not solid ones? I think the law sees all marriages between men and women in the same light, they don't have seperate divorvces for different marriage styles. They did not make me sit down and chose which marriage license I wanted when I applied for it. "Yes, sir I think I'll go with the Married on weekends but single every other Tuesday form." *wink* Marriage is marriage.
2) Considered by whom... Masters here on the forum, who wish to voice there opinions, really.
3) Define slave...see above.
4) Define Master...a man who has control over something specfic with in another human being, or one who owns a slave/animal.
5) Define husband...Again it does not matter what kind of husband he is or what he has to say. It is only the fact that there is a spouse, which gives the slave a seperate interest.
6) What does serve mean...attend to the whims and wants of the Master, in a pleasing fashion, to bring him pleasure, honor and pride in what he owns.
And as a sidebar just to let all know, I do not condone cheating, and lying to a spouse. My husband is aware of where I am and what I am doing. Beyond that you don't need anymore info on that situation.
Thanks for playing...
Celestia
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