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US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 12:30:49 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		I came upon this while doing research last night. Damn thing kept me up way past my bedtime last night, as I couldn't walk away until I had finished reading it.

I'd never even remotely heard of any of this before. Of course, it's far too early for me to judge the merit of this one article, but I have to admit that I'm fascinated by it at the moment.

Anyone here have any knowledge or opinions on the topic?

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/law/white-paper.htm
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 1:11:32 PM   
vield


Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		This is an interesting paper. I do not have the time now to go into detail reseaerching the sources and quotations included, but it is likely that they will include the correct text.

However, the fact that one can find texts containing opposing opinions does not mean that the original law or rule you are investigating is invalid.

The debate between the sovereignity of "State's Rights" vs. the Federal governmenent went on through the history of this country up until the Civil War. The states rights folks attempted to seceed from the Union, the Federal government fought to prevent this. State's Rights lost the war, thus the primacy of the Federal govt. was firmly established.

Naturally this is a small potion of the issues involved. However in a natural selection point of view, the group of independant states associating together in a confederacy showed that many political entities pulling in different directions could not compete long in war time with the states subordinate to a unified Federal government.

I note that some of the items quoted in the paper come from other countries (Admiralty law) and from places which had their own religious or other reasons for disagreeing with the ratification of the 14th Amendment.

Entities not subject to the rules in some ways do exist, but investigation shows that many such exemptions are for corporate entities not individual citizens. Some are only for religious groups. In some cases one also finds the surrender of constitutional Rights by a convicted felon is the sacrifice which frees the person from some citizenship obligations.

One must look upon the constitutionality of whatever laws one is discussing from the present day and track this back to their origin to get a true picture. Laws change often and looking at an obsolete Statute on the State or Federal level does not necessarily relate to current law.

_____________________________

As always, your mileage may vary!

vield

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 1:32:27 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for shedding a little more light on the topic, vield. Hope to see more.


(in reply to vield)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 2:04:40 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		I'm not going to read all of this garbage but it looks like pretty standard racist and/or tax evader bs. It's wrong both legally and historically.

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 3:03:34 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vield
One must look upon the constitutionality of whatever laws one is discussing from the present day and track this back to their origin to get a true picture. Laws change often and looking at an obsolete Statute on the State or Federal level does not necessarily relate to current law.


true.  However laws are overturned all the time.  How would you explain the indian reservations?  When you drive into menomonee big sign says menomonee nation. not city or county.  They have their own set of rules that have been negotiated with the state.

i have heard of thios opting out before and others have spoke if it on here as well.  of course like it says in the begining opting out you drop all federal programs as well.

Wow did these guys do some serious home work!  Great references SF

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/20/2007 3:13:44 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to vield)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 4:35:33 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		When i speak of patriots they could not have said it better, here is what i mean!

This may sound strange to people who equate patriotism with support for whatever the government does as long as the flags are waving and the politicians say have the best interest of the nation at heart, but patriots like Thomas Jefferson saw patriotism as supporting the value of liberty. The founders of the nation thought it was unpatriotic to accept being ruled by a sovereign. In the Constitutional Republic that they founded, each Citizen was a sovereign without subjects. That is, we were all equal.

This is a collossal great find subfever and i thank you much!  

i have my emailer fired up and ready to go as i know "many" people, (like in the 100's), who are going to want this in triplicate.   i am in a position that i can declare myself sovereign at this moment however, to be the governer of my own sovereign self with a new set of rights that i have forfieted in the matrix, will take a lot of background work to fully grasp and understand in actual application.  That will hold me up some but this is great!

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/20/2007 4:36:34 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 10:20:26 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		I'm glad I put it out there for you to find, RO.

I mentioned the webpage to two of my friends today. Neither one had ever heard of any of this either, but both were interested in having a look.   

I didn't have any time today to continue my research, and tomorrow's a big football day, especially here in Chicago. Hopefully tomorrow night I can follow up on some of the related websites the author provided.  

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 10:44:48 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

I'm glad I put it out there for you to find, RO.

I mentioned the webpage to two of my friends today. Neither one had ever heard of any of this either, but both were interested in having a look.   

I didn't have any time today to continue my research, and tomorrow's a big football day, especially here in Chicago. Hopefully tomorrow night I can follow up on some of the related websites the author provided.  



The thing that i am questioning is, i wonder how we get the money back that we paid into the system such as social security that was paid in and we would never use.  you would think that would all be refundable.   i plan on looking into that with some of these support groups they listed and more research as well.....    you would think they would have to choke it up and add insult to injury LOL

They are correct however this could become huge over the next few years, especially for kids just starting out.  Of course we would need an awesome support group and everyone would need to be highly educated in law as i am sure it will be a constant battle at first as your average police officer would never have heard of this so its assured that there woudl be a few trips into the court room before word got around.... 

i can imagine trying to convince an employer that you are a worker not an employee...  There would be some hurdles i think.  Of course having the same rights as a state it seems to me i might have the right to create my own ssn number for reference and something to fill in the blank.  As a free man i dont think there is a damn thing the feds could do about it as long as the legal work were done first.  Great stuff!

This brings up lots of interesting questions of how to properly merge it with the federalists.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 11:18:38 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

The thing that i am questioning is, i wonder how we get the money back that we paid into the system such as social security that was paid in and we would never use.  you would think that would all be refundable


SS was the very first concern I had as I read the webpage. I paid in the max for many years, and it would be a shame to piss it all away just 13 years before retirement.  

At this point I have no way of knowing, but I would wager a dollar to a doughnut that the Feds wouldn't want to encourage other people to leave the system by refunding the money that State Citizens paid into SS. 

And Medicare is a related issue.

If State Citizenship eventually proves to be a valid choice, it seems as though the best time to exercise this option would be as a very young man or woman. Then the funds that would ordinarily pay into SS and Medicare could be invested elsewhere.  

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 11:32:34 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Greetings..~smiles~

Okay I started getting blurried eyed somewhere through this so I admit to not reading it all.

From what I did read..while it sounds great..a person as a individual attempting this does not seem to have a shot in hades. Currently the only currency in accpetance is from the Federal Government. That alone poses a great problem.

By the time you put in to getting your SS back from them (providing they didn't say upfront it was non-refundable for use the the time you were a federal citizen) you'd be long dead and buried before it got out of the legal system.

The best shot I can see this maybe even slightly happening is if the entire state just seceded. It would have to be able to be self sufficient to support the citizens. It could be done with just coverage of the basics of life but most citizens are going to want more..technology, trade etc. They would have to come up with thier own form of currency, be able to make trade with other countrys, and have that currency recognized. Probably not going to happen unless that state has something in particular worthy of trading to begin with. It could happen just not a very practical thing from a long term endeavor. Short term to show the Federal we don't like slop your slinging us, but long term or indefinite I don't think is possible.

Just a thought

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/20/2007 11:43:50 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

They would have to come up with thier own form of currency, be able to make trade with other countrys, and have that currency recognized. Probably not going to happen unless that state has something in particular worthy of trading to begin with. It could happen just not a very practical thing from a long term endeavor. Short term to show the Federal we don't like slop your slinging us, but long term or indefinite I don't think is possible.

Just a thought

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin


well you can still use the federal currency with a stipulation. you just didnt read far enough.  gold and silver however are still considered currency between ountries such as china and usa etc.  so that is availiable but the problem of course is that you would be trading your real money for the monopoly money of the feds.  its all fake money and does not pay off a debt legally!  Like i said in a different thread on the subject, biggest fraud ever pulled on the people, well with exception to 911.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 3:07:03 AM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		Just waiting for some one to retro a location in Vegas,
and turn it into a sovereign nation for lifestylers.

(in reply to Real0ne)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:06:16 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		http://www.texassecede.com/faq.asp

I am just more recently reading things such as this. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside just knowing that not everyone agree's with being sheeples even if nothing could at this point in time be done to stop the big monster.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to MasDom)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:09:05 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		I challenge ANYONE to show me the paperwork ENDING the Civil War. I've got a copy of the Spring 1861 records from when Congress recessed, but aside from Lincoln's July 4, 1861 Military Dictatorship instilled Fake Congress, I see no records of the Lawful Republic ever coming back into existence.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to starshineowned)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:13:46 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Well by George...To Arms To Arms then my good Men! Let me know when your done and we'll do some really heavy intake of fatty foods, home brew, and smoke like chimineys.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to farglebargle)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:18:00 AM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Well by George...To Arms To Arms then my good Men! Let me know when your done and we'll do some really heavy intake of fatty foods, home brew, and smoke like chimineys.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin


Well, the current administrations disregard for the Rule of Law isn't anything new.

If there's a point, that's it.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to starshineowned)
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RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:22:47 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		This is quite true. All administrations have had lovers of and haters of. The only one's that seem to come out relatviely unscathed are those that sit back and don't do anything to cause public stir.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to farglebargle)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 11:04:57 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

This is quite true. All administrations have had lovers of and haters of. The only one's that seem to come out relatviely unscathed are those that sit back and don't do anything to cause public stir.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin


sure... what woudl we expect?  It would be different if they pushed this stuff through legally, (according to the constitution!)  but they dont.  of course when they try to do something it will cause a stir.

Every time they try to do somehting it goes against our fundamental constitutional rights creating the "matrix".  it loos like steak and it tastes like steak but it simply is not steak.

This can be stopped without ever firing a shot.  How do you hurt the system?  MONEY.  take their money, become a sovreign and cut off the blood supply.  make sure you redeem all your paper for gold, and when the whole fucking system comes crashing down bankrupt which is inevitable you will have your money in gold and silver.

Every person who does this is removing tax revenue from the matrix, thus forcing taxes higher on those still in it.  We are up over 60 - in some cases 90-% taxation now and i expect it wont have to go up to much higher before people revolt or the whole system crashes and people realize they have nothing because their money was worth nothing!!!

you cannot "buy" anything with a fed note!  only rent.  as i say over and over, biggest fraud ever pulled on america along side 911


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 2:25:56 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm not going to read all of this garbage but it looks like pretty standard racist and/or tax evader bs. It's wrong both legally and historically.


Then meet your maker my friend!  errrr maybe you are our maker huh?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6836269967817017350&q=New+World+Order

Who are you?


< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/21/2007 2:26:55 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: US Citizen vs. State Citizen - 1/21/2007 9:37:26 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline 		Well... I did it again. I stayed up last night way past my bedtime reading this related topic:

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/law/Mary.htm

Only got half way through it.


(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 20
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