RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down

RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (Full Version)

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Lorelei115 -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 4:33:42 PM)
~Fast Reply~ Rolls eyes You know, people in EVERY subculture start having attacks like this when their subculture begins to get public recognition. I was a fan of Japanese animation long before pokemon and naruto hit the mainstream, and when it finally did start attracting a larger crowd, I heard almost all of exactly the same complaints. "No one is into real anime anymore, they're just all posers who do it 'cause its hip, the people who attend all the conventions have NO idea what it was like back in the day..." And, yeah, it hurt a little to see people be able to purchase complete cosplaying sets rather than having to laboriously hand sew them, or see a toy available at the local Wal-mart that two years ago I paid top dollar to import from Japan. But you know what? In the end, I like to think that everyone was enriched by the experience. We may have lost the tight knit, exclusive community, but a lot more people have been exposed to it, and while the trendsters move on to the next big thing, a lot of true, genuine people who might never have known about it in the first place are left behind. Also, it makes the toys SOOOO much easier to get! [;)] Yeah, I'll admit it. I'm not a lifestyler. BDSM to me is something I do becuase I get a kinky thrill out of it. That's all. I've never represented myself as anything else. I will probably never have a 24/7 TPE relationship. (Although I have lived poly and probably will again someday.) Apparently, in some people's opinion that makes me not "twue" and I'm fine with that. I would hope that, even though I am not dedicated to living what other people would call BDSM that I would still be able to find some sort of place within this community.

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 5:07:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong I have never identified myself as old guard. I do like their means and methods I allow others to label me as they will. It gives people, who otherwise have none, a sense of importance. So in the future.. you know something already, please don't waste someone's time in attempting to Help you. I was hoping to get a handle on what you meant when you said "standards" since it didn't make sense that "old guard" was applicable, although that was the only example you gave. I was also hoping to understand what you meant by "enlightening me." I've now come to the conclusion that your words in this thread are as meaningless as your use of the word "standards." And I'm incapable of wasting your time ... only you can do that. [:)]

LotusSong -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:08:41 PM)
Well, at least I could make you happy. LOL![sm=sodoff.gif]

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:14:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Well, at least I could make you happy. LOL![sm=sodoff.gif] Actually, that did make me laugh (and I needed one)! Thanks. MaryT

Jeniluscious -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:18:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT Thanks, LS, but I am already familiar with the history, which is how I knew that using "old guard" as the standard would disqualify you from belonging. MaryT Oh? Why's that? On what do you base your words?

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:19:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeniluscious quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT Thanks, LS, but I am already familiar with the history, which is how I knew that using "old guard" as the standard would disqualify you from belonging. MaryT Oh? Why's that? On what do you base your words? Not a gay male, not "old guard." [:)]

Amaros -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:21:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thaimeeuppppp or of its just a little different because most people on here are essentially heterosexual. My personal view of submission means when i find a Master I do what he says. If its unconfortable I deal with it, becuase my life is devoted to pleasing him. I have been reading many of these posts and it seems like many people are really more searching for very secure committed relationships where they have a few kinks in common. Many of the subs seem opinionated and bossy. As a sub the idea for me is I do not have a list of demands, I am he of who demands are made. Perhaps because altho I am Bi most of my experience is with men. Women have always been the sneakier sex, so while they say they sub there is more of a need to be taken care of than anything. [Mod Note: font reduced] ...based on the assumption that every sub/slave in the US/UK/Australia posts on this board? I would presume the opposite, that the submissives on this board are likely only a small percentage of the total, and happen to be the ones with the most autonomy. i.e., for every sub on this board, there are some larger number who perhaps aren't even allowed to participate. Second, BDSM isn't a homogeneous institution, that I'm aware of, and not subject to any universal laws or expectations, other than SSC - so naturally you have all levels of players at the same time, from hardcore to... less hardcore. It is what it is, whatever you make of it, and there are a lot of ways to play this game - does it reflect your needs as an individual or are you trying to impress somebody?

LotusSong -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:23:20 PM)
This is what I meant by "standards". I liked the discipline and order they had/have. I'll attempt to spell it out for you..just one..more..time. Taken from the link I provided: The early gay male leather subculture is epitomized by the Leatherman's Handbook by Larry Townsend, published in 1972, which essentially defined one specific order of the Old Guard leather culture. This code emphasized strict formality and fixed roles (i.e. no switching). There is another order of the Old Guard that emphasizes discipline, honor, brotherhood, and respect and promotes and even stricter lifestyle promoting education, knowledge, and privilege based on successive ranks or levels. Leather submissives start as novice trainees and systematically earn their leather while progressing through the levels of third class, second class, first class, and senior trainee. Once a submissive completes his training and earns the Senior title, he is ready to go into part time or full time service as a houseboy in an Old Guard Master's household. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_subculture

Jeniluscious -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:27:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT quote: ORIGINAL: Jeniluscious quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT Thanks, LS, but I am already familiar with the history, which is how I knew that using "old guard" as the standard would disqualify you from belonging. MaryT Oh? Why's that? On what do you base your words? Not a gay male, not "old guard." [:)] You don't know me from Adam, and that's fine too, but I hate to burst your bubble, but you're wrong.

angelic -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:28:02 PM)
LOL... thank you!

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 6:34:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Jeniluscious You don't know me from Adam, and that's fine too, but I hate to burst your bubble, but you're wrong. In the first place, I never claimed to know anything about you, so I can't possibly be wrong about you. "Old guard" was gay males half a century ago. If you are claiming to be "old guard," I laugh in your face ... with Jay Wiseman's blessing no less. [:)] MaryT

thaimeeuppppp -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:10:09 PM)
wow. I thank everyone for their inputand am shocked at how catty some people get. As to where I get ideas from... well the Marquis De Sade,my idea has been to find a Master who is an admirable individual and surrender myself to him. If i had prenegotiated limits then it wouldnt be thrilling to be taken past those limits. to endure what I did not imagine I could. The idea of self sacrifice comes in. WOuld i give all my money to my Master? of course. I would trust he would use it wisely. If I thought i could run my own life effectively i would not want a Master. I accept that whatever people want is what they should get. I am a purist in many things. I like to grind my own flour to make bread. If i do this i do it all the way. some of my more learned forum members brilliantly expressed some ideas. I see that anything that becomes accepted by society immediately coopts itself. Look at the Hippies. In the 60's they were freaks, they were kicked out of their families and disowned. By the mid 70s their parents were all wearing bell bottoms. I not understand that what i seek will be considered too extreme by some in this community.Oh... Yuppies.. what scum you really are.

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:15:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thaimeeuppppp If I thought i could run my own life effectively i would not want a Master. I would not want a master who would settle for less than a self-sufficient person. MaryT

Invictus754 -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:27:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT I would not want a master who would settle for less than a self-sufficient person. MaryT Although many Masters like a self-sufficient submissive, most submissives are not so insolent and demeaning as you. quote: "I laugh in your face" That just isn't submissive behavior - unless you were begging for a caning from Mistress Manners that would make you scream . [:D]

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:32:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Invictus754 quote: ORIGINAL: MaryT I would not want a master who would settle for less than a self-sufficient person. MaryT Although many Masters like a self-sufficient submissive, most submissives are not so insolent and demeaning as you. quote: "I laugh in your face" That just isn't submissive behavior - unless you were begging for a caning from Mistress Manners that would make you scream . [:D] I do not exhibit submissive behavior outside of a relationship with a trusted dominant. I'm far too survival-oriented for that, and I venture that most of us who self-define as "submissive" are the same way. And you are an idiot for thinking otherwise. MaryT

LotusSong -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:37:19 PM)
The truth be known.. I am a VERY GAY MALE....trapped in a woman's body. Strange but true. :)

SimplyMichael -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:38:40 PM)
Lotus, I hate to break into your complete fantasy about old guard but I take it you haven't actually READ the fucking book, have you? I HAVE, go order a copy and read page 27 and get back to us. My bet is you won't bother and if you do you won't have the grace to correct yourself and appologize.

MaryT -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:40:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong The truth be known.. I am a VERY GAY MALE....trapped in a woman's body. Strange but true. :) And you participated in the old guard while you were still in diapers ... is that right?

SimplyMichael -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 7:44:03 PM)
Invictus754, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I am at times an overbearing asshole with a sense of entitlement and arrogance that would shock the Queen of England if she woke up with it one day. Without people like yourself to make me look better, I would be very very lonely. MaryT, my sentiments exactly...

Lordandmaster -> RE: I wonder if modern day BDSM has become watered down (1/22/2007 8:03:56 PM)
Yes, BDSM was SO much better in the Middle Ages.

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