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The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 2:16:05 PM

LadyEllen

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We had a drama on the TV here a week or so ago, which told the story of Tony Blair leaving office as Prime Minister and then subsequently getting as we would say "stitched up" by his successor and by the US administration (for political reasons rather than a wish for "justice"), and handed over for trial at the Hague.

Which brings me to wonder, what charges might be brought? I'm going for;

"Conspiring with a foreign power, to wit the USA, to undertake a war of aggression against the Republic Of Iraq, a sovereign state under the terms of the UN, which is a breach of the UN Convention and of international law"

One could also bring many charges of course, in relation to misrepresentation to Parliament, prejudicing national security by way of tampering with intelligence and all that, but the Hague Tribunal would have no interest or jurisdiction on those aspects I believe. (?)

Anyone else have any ideas?

And for our US friends, I'm sure you get the idea overall? have at it! (though bearing in mind that the USA is not a signatory to the Hague Tribunal)

NB - can we make this a discussion of possible charges, jurisprudence and trial please, rather than another endless Blair/Bush political thing?

E

PS, yes Seeks et al, if Tony Blair were other than white.....etc

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RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 2:21:06 PM

ToGiveDivine

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You are assuming, of course, that we would have to view the U.N. as an upstanding and non-corrupt organization that has the moral background to impose it's views on other nations.

The U.N. appears to more corrupt than most governments of legitimate nations.

Sorry, I'm not a big fan of the U.N. Getting the biggest blowhards from every nation in the same building to "fix" things isn't what I would call progress.

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RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 2:45:29 PM

seeksfemslave

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I think Blair/Bush should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize for ridding the World of a vicious homicidal murderous LUNATIC.

If we carry on like this those that helped rid the World of the 2 H's Hitler and Himmler will be posthumously prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Of course Idi Amin was a well respected gentleman !!!

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

Post #: 3

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 3:24:42 PM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

You are assuming, of course, that we would have to view the U.N. as an upstanding and non-corrupt organization that has the moral background to impose it's views on other nations.

The U.N. appears to more corrupt than most governments of legitimate nations.

Sorry, I'm not a big fan of the U.N. Getting the biggest blowhards from every nation in the same building to "fix" things isn't what I would call progress.

I and I'm sure most Americans would agree with you on that crooked "U.N."
Personally I don't want my government having anything to do with them and they need to move their headquarters out of the U.S.
I watched a show just last night about Saddam Hussein's atrocities and Hitler and Stalin had nothing on that monster.
Funny, and some people were upset because he was "insulted" right before he dropped?
They should have chained him to a pick-up truck and dragged him to his hanging!

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

Post #: 4

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 3:41:02 PM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I think Blair/Bush should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize for ridding the World of a vicious homicidal murderous LUNATIC.

If we carry on like this those that helped rid the World of the 2 H's Hitler and Himmler will be posthumously prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Of course Idi Amin was a well respected gentleman !!!

You don't still believe the invasion of Iraq was about getting rid of a madman? That is a pretty pathetic stance. The US will soon have the Iraqi oil industry privatised and all the oil contracts stitched up and trading in dollars. The occupation of Iraq is imperialist as any 18th century merchant adventurer could wish for.

Of course Blair should be tried, he should also be immediately impeached by the house of commons but he has such a bunch of sycophants and criminals sat behind him it will never happen. For someone that believes in peace he has a lot of blood on his hands.

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Post #: 5

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 3:55:06 PM

Real0ne

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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I think Blair/Bush should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize for ridding the World of a vicious homicidal murderous LUNATIC.

If we carry on like this those that helped rid the World of the 2 H's Hitler and Himmler will be posthumously prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Of course Idi Amin was a well respected gentleman !!!

DUH WHAAAaaaaa?

for crimes against humanity?

you mean the 2 B/B's? Bush / Blair

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(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 6

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 4:21:30 PM

cyberdude611

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I have a very serious question...

Why is the UN being viewed as the supreme standard of international law when they turn their cheek as a million people are slaughtered in Rwanda? That was a genocide that the entire world completely ignored. Or how about when the UN leadership steals money from the oil for food program while the people of Iraq die of either starvation or poor access to medication? Where was the UN when the Taliban was treating women like dogs? Where was the UN when Hezzbollah or Hamas send suicide bombers into Israeli supermarkets and blow themselves up?

Dont give me this bullshit about international law! When the UN is able to police itself and follow its own laws, maybe then everyone else will follow the law. You ask Americans what they think about the UN and I assure you the majority want that damn building off our soil! A poll was done a little over a year ago and over 60% of Americans say they do not trust the UN anymore.

That organization is completely useless! Just like the League of Nations back in the 1930s...IT'S A JOKE!

(in reply to Real0ne)

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RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 4:33:50 PM

seeksfemslave

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Well if Oil is traded in dollars it should get cheaper for the Brits.

If any Iraqui had anything whatsoever to do with establishing the Oil industry, other that is than as a shake down merchant demanding his split of the proceeds, I personally will drink a pint of unprocessed crude and recite Allah Akhbar until I pass out in a drunken stupour.

God bless the Queen and all who sail in her !

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 1/22/2007 4:37:11 PM >

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 8

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 4:41:56 PM

Zensee

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Got a better idea than the UN, cyberdude? USA World Police perhaps? Organisations are all prone to crooks, it's not like the UN invented corruption and ineptitude. At least And it is nothing like the League of Nations. Read some history.

They got Saadam at what cost in lives and $$$ ? He wasn't worth the rope they hung him with let alone a single life besides his own. Blair and Bush lied to get this war of agression. Bust them too. Tyrants and liars all. Another 80 dead and another 100 or more wounded in Iraq today. Thanks George. Hope your daddy is proud of you.

Z.

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RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 7:02:06 PM

cyberdude611

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Got a better idea than the UN, cyberdude? USA World Police perhaps? Organisations are all prone to crooks, it's not like the UN invented corruption and ineptitude. At least And it is nothing like the League of Nations. Read some history.

They got Saadam at what cost in lives and $$$ ? He wasn't worth the rope they hung him with let alone a single life besides his own. Blair and Bush lied to get this war of agression. Bust them too. Tyrants and liars all. Another 80 dead and another 100 or more wounded in Iraq today. Thanks George. Hope your daddy is proud of you.

Z.

OK, so they lied about weapons of mass destruction. But they did not lie about the half a million Iraqis that have been found in mass graves throughout Iraq, Saddam was committing genocide in that nation. But it is pretty apparent that most in the civilized world do not believe, as the US and British believes, that genocide is a justification for war. It seems the world would rather let the genocide be carried out and then execute those responsible after the fact.

As for the UN, it is beyond corruption. They can't even police themselves because the corruption has infiltrated the top leadership posts. The Secretary General's own son was stealing! The UN doesn't do anything about it. And then the UN assembly has the nerve to give Annan a standing ovation? Not only that but then give Hugo Chavez (the future dictator of Venezuela) a standing ovation when he bashed the US? And you wonder why Americans no longer want to be part of an organization that has been taken over by the 3rd world?

< Message edited by cyberdude611 -- 1/22/2007 7:15:04 PM >

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 10

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 7:30:26 PM

Zensee

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Let us recall who's lap dog Saadam was. Who trained him and sold him his weapons and looked the other way for 20 years. Cleaning up your own mess is not a virtue. Meanwhile the perps of 9/11 are still running free in Afghanistan and Pakistan, putting Canadian soldiers at five times more risk than US soldiers in Iraq. Wasn't that supposed to be the mission ? The NATO mission (that Bush used as an excuse to mobilise and illegally divert funds with)? Clean out the CIA trained and financed Taliban?

Point fingers at the UN all you like, corruption and criminality is not confined to them by any stretch. What the Militwary Industriasl Complex is making on this war is beyond criminal. I agree the UN has a lot of cleaning up of its own to do but it is still an important organisation for the future of this world.

And what's wrong with the third world getting some power? It's about time. Residual colonialism, trade barriers and manipulation by the World Bink and IMF have kept developing countries down for too long. There is enough wealth to go around - by wealth I mean a safe place to live, medical care, clean water, food and education - maybe even a little joy once in a while.

Z.

PS: I haven't slept for 36 hours and I am in a bit of a head biting mood, if I seem growlier than usual.

< Message edited by Zensee -- 1/22/2007 7:45:15 PM >

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to cyberdude611)

Post #: 11

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/22/2007 7:45:06 PM

Rumtiger

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Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

USA World Police perhaps?

America, fuck yeah! comin around to save the motherfuckin day yeah!

Sorry but that just got the song from the movie stuck in my head.

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Post #: 12

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 2:46:30 AM

SusanofO

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This is going to sound so stupid, coming from someone who usually evaluates such things on a much more intellectual basis. But -

I just have to say it: If Tony Blair was an American, and running for office, I would vote for him based on his looks and his "aura" alone - something I never do, btw. I think he is just Hot, Hot, Hot! He is totally and completely Hot! I don't care what he did, or what anyone else thinks he did, or didn't do - I'll give him refuge! He can eat crackers in my bed anytime.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 1/23/2007 2:49:12 AM >

_____________________________

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That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to LadyEllen)

Post #: 13

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 3:01:12 AM

LadyEllen

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From: Stourport-England
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I'm wondering how, if the UN is unfit to conduct a trial for Bush, any trial (as is called for here repeatedly) might occur?

Has Mr Bush breached any US laws that might lead to one or more charges? Taking into account that much of what he did in Iraq and within the US was legitimised by Congress, and/or lay within his powers to do anyway.

What is the general opinion on the likelihood of any successful prosecution anyway? Taking into account that precedent would be set for any future president to be prosecuted, and that those conducting/involved in any prosecution are likely either supporters of Bush or would be anxious to avoid such precedent in relation to any future president of whatever political standpoint.

And then, assuming a successful prosecution, what penalties exist in US law for such instances as a conviction for war crimes? Bearing in mind that Bush could not be placed into the general prison population and would thus by default receive special treatment, but at the same time given his views on crime and punishment must receive no leniency.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 14

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 3:22:34 AM

seeksfemslave

Posts: 4011
Joined: 6/16/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

This is going to sound so stupid, coming from someone who usually evaluates such things on a much more intellectual basis. But -

I just have to say it: If Tony Blair was an American, and running for office, I would vote for him based on his looks and his "aura" alone - something I never do, btw. I think he is just Hot, Hot, Hot! He is totally and completely Hot! I don't care what he did, or what anyone else thinks he did, or didn't do - I'll give him refuge! He can eat crackers in my bed anytime.

- Susan

He was in much better shape 10 years or so ago, before the ravages wrought by holding high office "got to him"

(in reply to SusanofO)

Post #: 15

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 3:31:13 AM

meatcleaver

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I find the bloke offensive in the extreme, nothing but a conman and gets away with it because he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and doesn't expose any rough edges.

Just thinking about him makes me want to vomit.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to seeksfemslave)

Post #: 16

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 6:37:45 AM

seeksfemslave

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MC its people like you who are making Blair unwell.
I do not believe he lied about WMDs, I really think he had good reason to believe that something would be found. Not to be used to attack the West but Israel.

This argument that at some point Saddam was an expedient ally therefore the 2nd invasion of Iraq was wrong is confused thinking. Times change , alliances shift, DIFFERENT administrations in the US/UK come to power resulting in different priorities. So everyone out there , stop making that point OK ?

Also will someone who believes passionately that the invasion was wrong at least have the GUTS to admit who are the source of the carnage NOW. OK ?

Incidently I heard a Muslim yesterday say on a Radio discussion programme that the Sunnis/Shias have never been involved in any "disputes". As far as I can tell he said it with a straight face. !!

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 17

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 7:00:12 AM

ToGiveDivine

Posts: 650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

I think Blair/Bush should be awarded the Nobel Peace prize for ridding the World of a vicious homicidal murderous LUNATIC.

If we carry on like this those that helped rid the World of the 2 H's Hitler and Himmler will be posthumously prosecuted for crimes against humanity.

Of course Idi Amin was a well respected gentleman !!!

You don't still believe the invasion of Iraq was about getting rid of a madman? That is a pretty pathetic stance. The US will soon have the Iraqi oil industry privatised and all the oil contracts stitched up and trading in dollars. The occupation of Iraq is imperialist as any 18th century merchant adventurer could wish for.

Of course Blair should be tried, he should also be immediately impeached by the house of commons but he has such a bunch of sycophants and criminals sat behind him it will never happen. For someone that believes in peace he has a lot of blood on his hands.

You have a problem with Imperialists!?!?!? That's kind of funny considering Europe built itself up on imperialism for centuries. English isn't the common language for business because everyone thought it was a lovely language.

Do you really think the European countries would be considered 1st World countries today had it not been on the backs of 3rd World countries from centuries of conquest?

Kingdoms and Monarchs have been paying tribute to the Lords of their lands for centuries in order to stay in power. The only difference between now and then is that they are not called the Earl of ...; their title is now CEO.

The human race isn't all that advanced for as "civilized" as we tout ourselves to be.

As for the U.S., for all our bad points, I do believe we were the first major power victorious in a war to NOT occupy the lands of the conquered - and that would be after both World Wars. The European powers wanted their colonies back; which in most cases the U.S. opposed. (Except for Vietnam where we made the mistake of believing De Gaulle was anybody's friend) Hmmm, I remember the Dutch wanted Indonesia back after WWII.

When the Philippines asked us to leave, we left - they didn't have to take up arms against us. Oh yes, we do have our problems here in the U.S. and our foreign policy isn't the best it's ever been; but don't go throwing stones at us when you are living in your own glass houses.

_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 18

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 7:15:23 AM

ToGiveDivine

Posts: 650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zensee

Got a better idea than the UN, cyberdude? USA World Police perhaps? Organisations are all prone to crooks, it's not like the UN invented corruption and ineptitude. At least And it is nothing like the League of Nations. Read some history.

They got Saadam at what cost in lives and $$$ ? He wasn't worth the rope they hung him with let alone a single life besides his own. Blair and Bush lied to get this war of agression. Bust them too. Tyrants and liars all. Another 80 dead and another 100 or more wounded in Iraq today. Thanks George. Hope your daddy is proud of you.

Z.

We already have the USA World Police - why in the hell were most of the troops in the Balkans peace keeping effort Americans? You would think the European Countries would have stepped it up because it was their backyard where the trouble was.

The U.N. LOVES a dictator - that way they can get rich off the back room deals from their benevolent programs like "Oil for Food". Should be called "Oil for Kickback".

Now people are bitching that the U.S. isn't sending troops to help with the genocide in Darfur. I HOPE WE DON'T SEND ONE! I feel sorry for those people, but if the U.S. doesn't go, people bitch - then if we do go, they still bitch. There are dozens of countries that could send troops to stop the bloodshed - time for them to step up to the plate.

If you don't want a USA World Police - get your country up off it's own lazy ass and make a difference for the downtrodden!

_____________________________

These are my opinions - which may differ from your opinions. They may be right and just as equally wrong.

Beware, author is often sarcastic in his replies - most often, no sincere offense is intended.

(in reply to Zensee)

Post #: 19

RE: The Trial of Tony Blair - 1/23/2007 7:38:34 AM

meatcleaver

Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Do you really think the European countries would be considered 1st World countries today had it not been on the backs of 3rd World countries from centuries of conquest?

Yes but you wouldn't be, assuming you are European desent, you'd be here and the Americas would still be inhabited by natives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

Kingdoms and Monarchs have been paying tribute to the Lords of their lands for centuries in order to stay in power. The only difference between now and then is that they are not called the Earl of ...; their title is now CEO.

Actually there is more than one monarchal system and Monarchs could be voted or appointed and were answerable to their parliaments. I know many Americans have a thing about King George but King George only had nominal power, Parliament had the real power.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

The human race isn't all that advanced for as "civilized" as we tout ourselves to be.

I doubt humans have advanced in anyway but science and technology for thousands of years and civilisation is only a shiver from chaos.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine
As for the U.S., for all our bad points, I do believe we were the first major power victorious in a war to NOT occupy the lands of the conquered - and that would be after both World Wars. The European powers wanted their colonies back; which in most cases the U.S. opposed. (Except for Vietnam where we made the mistake of believing De Gaulle was anybody's friend) Hmmm, I remember the Dutch wanted Indonesia back after WWII.

Of all the European powers only Britain immediately understood the world had changed after WWII, however, America opposed European powers having their colonies back not for the freedom of those colonies but for opening up markets the US could exploit. That is fair enough but let's not believe it was for freedom, it was for commerce.(An echo of the British Empire there)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine
When the Philippines asked us to leave, we left - they didn't have to take up arms against us. Oh yes, we do have our problems here in the U.S. and our foreign policy isn't the best it's ever been; but don't go throwing stones at us when you are living in your own glass houses.

It is difficult for a Brit to criticize US foreign policy without criticizing Britain's foreign policy because Britain is so far up the USA's arse, it slavishly does whatever the US wants it to do.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

Post #: 20

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