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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I think bush's speeches are well-prepared and intended to satsify customers i.e. the American public. These people are not going to sacrifice what they have - least of all through a lazy, ill-prepared speech. I mean, they have the moeny to buy and pay for a thousand speech writers.

If I were American, I'd be much more concerned that people seem to be objecting to Iraq only because US soldiers are dying. For my money, this thought process is fucked up - the idea that it's ok to send the army to another country (knowing full well civilians will die) providing US casualties are kept to a minimum. I would say the neo-cons taking and holding power can be linked to the aforementioned thought process.

NorthernGent:
I am afraid you have it exactly right.  Just like in Viet Nam it was not until middle class white boys started comming home in rubber bags that anyone said anything about how immoral the war was.  As long as it is some other nations blood no one gave a shit.  Too often we in America look upon these things with a football mentality.  My team vs. their team.
It is such a laugh to hear someone tell me how many Iraquies died at the hands of the horrible dictator Sodammed Insane...we have killed sooooo many more than he ever did...but then god is on our side and those poor ignorant wogs need to be brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century.  Then there is the oil and the class A butt fucking the american taxpayer is getting from Haliburton.
thompson

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ORIGINAL: BigDogs

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ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

Didn’t watch, listen or read any excerpts from the speech…..but the mere fact that the original post is centered around Bush’s proclamation that he needs to raise the strategic oil reserves, tells me that oil on the London and New York mercantile exchanges should start to rise by the per barrel price by the opening bell tomorrow.  That was a nod for speculators {and alike} to re-enter the market and quash this little glut they were talking about last week.

Now.. should a bombing campaign commence and the Iranian's decide to mine the Straights of Hormuz or impede super tanker traffic some other way, well then, the ''free market system'' will suffer a reduction in supply and the price will go way up.  We can't be ''cut off '' when we have our own vast reserves {In Alaska and the Gulf} and Canada, Mexico and Venezuela are right on our door step.

Who benefits if this happens? Surely it won't be the Iranians. This is but another reason why natural resources vital for existence should never be in a position where they can be exploited by ''free market'' conditions /economics  




- R

Last time I heard THAT conspiracy theory, all the Leftists were screaming that falling gas prices didn't mean a thing because those wascawwy wepubwicans was gonna raise 'em right back up again, right after the mid-term elections.

Remember that?  

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: caitlyn

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I was asked by Moderator 11 to cease and desist my personal attacks.

I'm afraid to go check my inbox now. My apologies if I offended anyone. 

caitlyn:
I am never offended by anything you have said...we may not always agree but I have never found you to be offensive in you posts.
thompson

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juliaoceania
when they fail to support their opinions with any sort of facts.

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ORIGINAL: Sinergy

The sea change in Vietnam was after years of Johnson et al, telling people that it was a police action with minimal activity on the part of the US, came when the entire country of Vietnam raised up in revolt during the Chinese New Year (Tet offensive) and attacked each and every US military base in the entire country.

People started to go "huh" and the term "credibility gap" was born.

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The Tet Offensive can be considered a military defeat for the Communist forces, as neither the Viet Cong nor the North Vietnamese army achieved their tactical goals. Furthermore, the operational cost of the offensive was dangerously high, with the Viet Cong essentially crippled by the huge losses inflicted by South Vietnamese and other Allied forces. Nevertheless, the Offensive is widely considered a turning point of the war in Vietnam, with the NLF and PAVN winning an enormous psychological and propaganda victory. The Viet Cong's operational forces were effectively crippled by the Offensive

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Effect on South Vietnam
The violence witnessed during the Tet Offensive had a deep psychological effect on the South Vietnamese civilians. Confidence in the government was greatly reduced, as the offensive seemed to show that even with massive American support, the government could not protect its citizens. The South Vietnamese army also suffered lowered morale, with the desertion rate increasing from 10.5 per thousand before Tet to 16.5 per thousand in July of 1968[16] The songwriter Trịnh Công Sơn composed the songs Bài ca dành cho những xác người (Song for the dead bodies) and Hát trên những xác người (Singing on dead bodies) as a result of the offensive while the songwriter Trầm Tử Thiêng composed Chuyện một chiếc cầu đã gãy (Story about a Broken Bridge) about the collapse of the historic Trang Tien Bridge. These songs quickly became classics.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tet_Offensive

there is a map of the extent of the Tet offensive, there were many losses in South Vietnam... It showed that there was wide spread resistance, and that it was not isolated in the North.

I think I will post the Wikipedia analysis of the Tet offensive...

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The Tet Offensive can be considered a military defeat for the Communist forces, as neither the Viet Cong nor the North Vietnamese army achieved their tactical goals. Furthermore, the operational cost of the offensive was dangerously high, with the Viet Cong essentially crippled by the huge losses inflicted by South Vietnamese and other Allied forces. Nevertheless, the Offensive is widely considered a turning point of the war in Vietnam, with the NLF and PAVN winning an enormous psychological and propaganda victory. The Viet Cong's operational forces were effectively crippled by the Offensive

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Now I find your analysis of Walter Cronkite fascinating, but I doubt that he had any significant pull with the Vietnamese people. Perhaps I am wrong about that and they watched his newscast every day. Perhaps he was the reason that pro American Vietnamese felt doubtful about the American presense after the Tet Offensive... who knows

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

There was a countrywide revolt, look on the map. And some of those who revolted in the South were South Vietnamese. It was not as clearcut as you are portraying, just like Iraq is not as clearcut as the Bush Admin has been trying to tell us for years now. Talk about a failed propaganda campaign, the Bush Admin is a case study of failures all over the place.

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Just because the actions took place within the borders of South Vietnam, doesn't make it a "revolt" unless you are making the argument that Vietnam was a single nation, and that the invasion by the North was nothing more than an attempt by the legitimate government trying to regain control over rebellious provinces.

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ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

Again ... when were these "free elections" held?