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When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 9:36:43 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		I was recently talking to a friend who considers herself a submissive. Check that, who hopes one day to become a submissive. She told be that she longs to play more, both in public and in private but doesn't because she is afraid to be hurt emotionally if the Dom/Top isn't going to be her...well...for lack of a better term, boyfriend. That as much as she wants to and gets off by fantasizing about play for play's own sake, jealousy over watching the same Dom/Top play with another submissive or the thought that the Dom/Top will rejected her for anything more than a play partner stops her cold from exploring more. She also told me (she has full knowledge of this posting and will comment anonymously) that she often cries herself to sleep when coming home from parties or after a night flirting on line and masturbating to her fantasies because she knows that but for her fear, she could have easily share these experiences with an actual human being.  case in point, she told me she used to really get off on phone sex with different guys around the country but then would feel totally rejected whenever they would not call back. So she filled her Ipod with sex sounds and uses them but really wishes she could have supeficial phone without the rejection feelings.

As I read though some of the profiles of "single and looking" subs I sense that she is not alone in her pain. That many women fear and some even hate their own sexuality. In discussing this very issue with a Domme friend and a very secure married submissive who openly plays around all the time with her husband's blessing, they both agree that much of the petty backstabbing, catty gossip and distrust within "the scene" comes from women who cannot handle their own sexual kinks and fetishes and strike out against the sub/bottoms and Dom/Tops who can. They also feel that these attitudes keep many away from being more involved in the BDSM D/s M/s T/b community.

The whole subject reminded me of a girl I knew in middle school. She loved kissing for kissing's sake and she made out all the time with lots of guys (and a few girls she told me) throughout middle school and high school. It always hurt her when she would hear about being a whore or a slut, and gossip of who she was "doing" or what teacher she gave a BJ too. (Always of course behind her back) The real truth was she almost never let a guy get second past 2nd base and was a virgin until her junior year in college and married the man she gave that virginity to!

It is a rhetorical question but I will ask it anyway...

Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 1/25/2007 9:57:49 AM >
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RE: When can it bejust about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 9:49:41 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		If it makes it easier or harder, it is only because of that person's own baggage.

She is comparing herself to others and feeling as if she is lacking, or as if she isn't doing what she "should" be doing.

It's a very common experience, I don't know anyone who hasn't deal with it on some level.  However, they need to recognize it as their own insecurities and deal with it as such. 

Not to mention, unless you're femcar, there's always someone sluttier and out there and getting more attention than you.

But I will of course agree that there is tremendous cattiness and peer pressure in the scene for women to fit in and look good.

_____________________________

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RE: When can it bejust about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 9:50:50 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?


As crappy as it is, outgoing and/or pretty/good looking submissives seem to get the Doms just like these people get the dates in the vanilla. world. What we hope happens, and it does on a lot of occasions, is that we have Doms who look past the outside...and who might prefer the introvert.

Master Fire


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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:12:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?




I sincerely do not understand this question so I am going to have to ask you to clarify if I missed the point...

I think people should just be themselves, not all inhibitions are bad, not all are good either. It really is about the individual, we are only responsible for ourselves.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:19:17 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with both of you  and to MFM to a certain extent about the attractive factor. But I could drop a dozen profiles here on cm where subs are question if their standards are too high and they would run the range from "way hot" to "dumpy shulb".

But my point is many women, regardless of how others may see them, are unsatisfied with their looks. But I have seen this following scenario several times;
A group of women connect, they are all single, all looking, to varying degrees less than attractive, some more, some less. They form their own clique, bitch wine and moan until one day one of them says... fuck it! I am going to have some fun for my own sake and then boom! She gets labeled as a "bitch whore cunt scene stealer"
And if she plays with a Dom/Top that one of the clique's members fantasized about or lusted after (but would never ask to play with because she knew he was not going to go LTR with her) it gets even more vicious.


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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:22:21 AM   
Squeakers


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?

    If I were single, I would play for my own enjoyment and personal needs and if it made it easier or difficult for others, I probably wouldn't cease my actions.  
    In my relationship, He is Master, lover, boyfriend, partner---but if He played with another, I know it wouldn't bother me.   I know that I am loved and if I allowed myself to become overwhelmed with jealousy about him being with another it would hinder our relationship.   Life is way to short to fill it with negativity and insecurities, one can miss out on so much if they put up these types of gates.    

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:25:55 AM   
mymasterssub69


Posts: 566
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Do single or even married submissive who openly explore and play within the "scene" both public and private and with more than one Dom/Top for their own personal needs and enjoyment, make it harder or easier for other single women who not so open or adventurous?


everything is fair game especially when it comes to snagging the available guy (vanilla or BDSM) to explore and play. as the saying goes - "you snooze, you lose".

in my experience, i played both sides of the field being the aggressive one in making the first move and the "shy" type letting the guy make the move. well - i've noticed most guys appreciate it when i made the first move.  yet on the other hand, waiting for the guy to make a move didn't get me anywhere except me looking for another guy to hang out with.


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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:27:49 AM   
amuzingtoyou


Posts: 144
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		FatDomDaddy,
Well I haven't seen that too often within the community here. We have quite a few single submissives who frequent the local clubs, play with Dominants they don't have a relationship with, and are not labeled at a bitch whore cunt..whatever. But then again, i do try to stay out of the gossip loop. I think you are dealing with broad generalizations. When i look at the women who frequent the clubs here in Chicago, there is a spectrum of attractiveness. I haven't encountered too much cattiness in regard to what you are talking about. Maybe im just not part of that clique. Maybe that is a good thing.

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:44:28 AM   
RumpusParable


Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
Status: offline 		(Note:  Generic "you" used in this post)

Honestly, the behavior and mindset you describe her having sounds to me like a vanilla female pitching a fit because someone she's not dating dates others.

"Waaaah, they aren't mine it's not fair to me that they are with others!!!"

Yes, I know this is harsh and usually I try to be more polite in my wording but the silliness of this emotional response just struck me as too foolish to not comment on strongly.

No, I don't think people who are free and willing to do so playing with each other makes it harder for those not free or not willing to find someone they connect with in the way they want.  It's the responsibility of each individual to look for their partners, she's *choosing* to limit herself and be upset that they are spending time with others.

Vanilla life or BDSM interactions, people seeing others when they haven't agreed to be with only you is not detrimental to you.

Not getting in there and meeting them and seeing if there is a connection is always an option, take it or not.

ETA so you know where I'm coming from:  I am an extreme introvert by nature, but I get out there and meet and chat and bottom for those I feel a connection with when the opportunity presents itself.  If I am going to make a connection, I feel I need to push past my quiet separateness and give people the chance to know me some.  I can't complain if I sat there and didn't ask a top to beat me when I wanted them to, I can't complain if a sub intigued me and I avoided speaking to them all evening.  I just follow basic courtesy rules and see what happens from there.  If I sit, avoid, or otherwise don't make the effort whining that someone else did would be amazingly childish in my opinion.

< Message edited by RumpusParable -- 1/25/2007 10:50:21 AM >

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:48:11 AM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		Hard to understand the exact question but it all sounds very high-schoolesque to me.   Im not a scene person, so I dont know what goes on in clubs.
I'd not curse any woman who wanted to fuck around just for the sake of fucking around.  Its not my style, but maybe some enjoy that.  Nor would I feel jealous of a girl if she was with a man that I was attracted to.  I'd probably think she was a lucky girl.  But if I wanted to be with/get close to/submit to/ a particular man, I would focus my energy on him, not the other girl/s.

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:53:04 AM   
MaryT


Posts: 553
Joined: 12/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mymasterssub69

everything is fair game especially when it comes to snagging the available guy (vanilla or BDSM) to explore and play. as the saying goes - "you snooze, you lose".

in my experience, i played both sides of the field being the aggressive one in making the first move and the "shy" type letting the guy make the move. well - i've noticed most guys appreciate it when i made the first move.  yet on the other hand, waiting for the guy to make a move didn't get me anywhere except me looking for another guy to hang out with.


Thanks for saying that.  It was what I needed to hear today. 



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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 10:56:11 AM   
MissyRane


Posts: 1032
Joined: 5/11/2005
Status: offline 		My thought: low self-esteem soooooo she should try to go to a a self-esteem improvement course

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:05:41 AM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Ok...so we are all clear. My "hopes to a sub someday" friend asked me to write and has full knowldge of this post. I think she really does want to overcome these fears.

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:07:27 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		What fears does she want to get over exactly?

She doesn't want to get into public scenes unless she's in a committed relationship with someone she really trusts and is secure with.

Exactly why does she think that's a bad way to go about life?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:09:40 AM   
michaelOfGeorgia


Posts: 4253
Status: offline 		why does it have to be about sex at all?


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RE: When can it bejust about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:10:51 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

As crappy as it is, outgoing and/or pretty/good looking submissives seem to get the Doms just like these people get the dates in the vanilla. world. What we hope happens, and it does on a lot of occasions, is that we have Doms who look past the outside...and who might prefer the introvert.


mmmmmmm actually both my girl are introverted... (which is not to be confused with being shy... two different things)

mmmmmmm I wonder if that means that they are not pretty/good looking... damn I thought I they're hot... guess I have to accept otherwise.

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: When can it bejust about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:12:32 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
mmmmmmm actually both my girl are introverted... (which is not to be confused with being shy... two different things)

mmmmmmm I wonder if that means that they are not pretty/good looking... damn I thought I they're hot... guess I have to accept otherwise.

IME there really is a certain "type" of cute/pretty/sexiness that tends to attract more general male attention than others.

I'm quite pretty, horrendously cute, and quite witty- but I'm never gonna get the type of attention that some chicks out there get just from breathing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:15:36 AM   
lateralist1


Posts: 886
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline 		You are talking I think about the age old problem of it's alright for a guy but not a woman.
She knows deep down inside that her behaviour is not who she is but she also needs the attention.
She needs a Dom who will encourage her to work through her need for sexual attention.
Or she needs to get out there and do just what she wants to and not worry about who thinks what about her until she is sick of it all.




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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:15:42 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		What really makes it harder is that a large percentage of people are waiting for that Prince they read about, growing up.  "I am going to save myself for the ONE."  Without considering that the guy doesn't have a big pick me sign on his forehead.

I remember dating.  Going out with lots of different people until there was one that you couldn't imagine being without and then the others fell away.

Of course the play party stuff is much more extreme than simply dating, but it is giving people the opportunity to enjoy a different sort of encounter.  If this is what someone wants, why not look around, stop to play a bit, and then move on until there is someone who you can't imagine being without? 

Too many people are so tunnel visioned on the idea that their ONE is going to just appear out of nowhere.
Sometimes Mr Right should be Mr Right now. 
Kyst

_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


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RE: When can it just be about sex or play for female subs? - 1/25/2007 11:16:16 AM   
ExSteelAgain


Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
I agree with both of you  and to MFM to a certain extent about the attractive factor. But I could drop a dozen profiles here on cm where subs are question if their standards are too high and they would run the range from "way hot" to "dumpy shulb".

But my point is many women, regardless of how others may see them, are unsatisfied with their looks. But I have seen this following scenario several times;
A group of women connect, they are all single, all looking, to varying degrees less than attractive, some more, some less. They form their own clique, bitch wine and moan until one day one of them says... fuck it! I am going to have some fun for my own sake and then boom! She gets labeled as a "bitch whore cunt scene stealer"
And if she plays with a Dom/Top that one of the clique's members fantasized about or lusted after (but would never ask to play with because she knew he was not going to go LTR with her) it gets even more vicious.


Or it could be that you are reading it all wrong. Maybe nothing of the sort happened. Maybe no one said anything to the subs who played. Maybe there is no pressure on subs not to play. It all comes down to you are thinking subs won't play because they are afraid of what others will say. The reason could be much different.

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You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

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