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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 6/23/2004 10:52:28 PM   
Laura


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From: Ontario, Canada
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That was very well said CruelDomina.

Someone else asked about putting it on a website. I'd like to run it in the BDSM community at BackWash. I'll send you a note.

Thanks for posting it!

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/1/2004 11:40:12 AM   
Silvertonguedevl


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For Cruel Domina, and Sinergy and all who posted advice. Thank you very much, MesDames et Patrons, and I think I get it, but did you want your house painted before or after dinner? And, by the way, how is your day going?--My apologies if this was misplaced. I am new at this message board thing.

< Message edited by Silvertonguedevl -- 7/1/2004 11:46:32 AM >

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/1/2004 4:50:55 PM   
sarbonn


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quote:

1) Somebody asking me if they can be my submissive and do whatever I command them to do.

I usually think something on the order of "paint my house."


Some years back, a pro domme who knew me through friends used the same line (I think it became a common line after Exit to Eden), and for the next three weeks, I painted her house. I think she had me do it because she wasn't convinced I was serious when I said I would do it. When it was done, she laughed and said that yes, I was a true submissive, and I now earned her attention. I said thank you and left. I never returned any of her phone calls.

People have ridiculed me for years after that (because she was quite hot and highly desired by a lot of submissives), but I felt there was a lack of respect issue going on here. To this day, I think I'm the only person who understood why I left, and I've stopped trying to explain it because I don't think anyone truly understands until they are put into the same situation.

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/1/2004 5:17:45 PM   
Sinergy


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Hello,

Interesting point, sarbonn. I have never seen the movie Exit To Eden, although from what I understand that line is in it.

I am a bit puzzled why you feel there is a lack of respect issue. I have heard Dom/Domme's express that they feel they are perceived by submissives as a life support system for a single tail. True or not, a submissive who comes up to me and
immediately wants to know what sort of scening I would do to her and what sort of
sexual acts I would like doing to her me start wondering if they are truly submitting to my will or whether they see BDSM as a way to get their own jollies and are not really interested in being submissive to Me.

There is an aspect to that approach which qualifies in my mind as Topping from the bottom.

So I use the line "paint my house" as a way of expressing my idea that a true act of submission involves the submissive submitting to my (in this case performing an act I need done with no thought of recompense) will, and in doing so they will get what they need. I am not a sadist. I derive no inner satisfaction from the physical act of causing pain. But I find what attracts me to Dominance is the ability to change or alter the emotional state of another person and drive her to a place of happiness and bliss, as opposed to inflicting pain for it's own sake and being called Sir and having her kneel next to me at parties.

Just me, probably wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/1/2004 9:53:50 PM   
Mondschein


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Well at least I'm not the only one who has gone thru such experiences...

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/3/2004 5:30:41 PM   
Laura


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Putting myself in your place I wouldn't have gone to the trouble of painting her house but I would have felt I didn't need to earn her attention either. You have to value yourself. Being a sub or a Dom or a Switch makes no difference, you are first of all, yourself.

Did she at least say thank you?

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/3/2004 5:51:05 PM   
sarbonn


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quote:

Did she at least say thank you?


Actually, she never did. She left me a bunch of messages on my answering machine that seemed to get angrier and angrier, and then she started to tell people in the community that I was some kind of ungrateful submissive who just uses women. And then she started calling me again. I moved to Michigan soon after that to go back to grad school.

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Give a man a fish, he eats for a day...
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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/3/2004 5:51:18 PM   
iwillserveu


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Not my experience, but perhaps I can shed some light and instead of just saying why again sarbonn can correct that pompous jerk, iwillserveu.

The Domina did not think he was "worthy". She did not trust him. It is akin to not being served at a restaurant until you prove you can pay for the meal. Might make sense from the restaurant's perspective, but that "show me the money" attitude is insulting.

She demanded he "show her the submission".

When Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman got dressed nice that scene where she went back to the store that didn't serve her and told them she would've spent a lot of money but now she has everything she needs would have not been as good if she bought some outfits. The same thing with sarbonn just leaving instead of "buying" what that Domina had.

< Message edited by iwillserveu -- 7/3/2004 5:52:43 PM >


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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/4/2004 2:30:12 PM   
MistressZanthia


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Cruel, thank you. Thanks for taking the time to so eloquently say what many boys need to hear.

Now if we could just get it posted everywhere... how about Bondage.com forums too? LOL.
Kudos!!!

~Mistress Zanthia~
www.zanthia.com

< Message edited by MistressZanthia -- 7/4/2004 2:43:14 PM >

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/5/2004 6:34:06 AM   
LadyRobin


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Thank you for this essay. I get so tired of the one liners from these people who have no clue. After I read this yesterday I immediately opened up a journal page to direct submissives to "Ask a Mistress." If it is permissible CruelDomina, I would like to reference your primer article specifically. This is exactly what I am looking for in a D/s relationship. Thank you for writing it and more importantly, sharing it with the rest of us.

In Leather,
Lady Robin
www.houseofsaade.com

(in reply to CruelDomina)
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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 7/5/2004 9:28:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
I have heard Dom/Domme's express that they feel they are perceived by submissives as a life support system for a single tail. True or not, a submissive who comes up to me and immediately wants to know what sort of scening I would do to her and what sort of sexual acts I would like doing to her me start wondering if they are truly submitting to my will or whether they see BDSM as a way to get their own jollies and are not really interested in being submissive to Me.

There is an aspect to that approach which qualifies in my mind as Topping from the bottom.


Agreed Sinergy. More often then not, messages I receive from male subs are very demanding about what kind of sexual acts I could do to please their own desires. I'm not a whipping machine!

I guess that is what the delete button is for...

I understand that if subs didn't get pleasure out of BDSM, they wouldn't be here. And I believe in giving a sub what pleasures them in return for proper servitude and submission. (Just note that I am not so pompous to believe that I don’t have to prove myself to them as a good Domme.)

I’m tired of I want this! I want that! types of messages. Start telling me what you have to offer!

Lady Angelika

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 12:21:29 PM   
pollux


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Was searching for info on BDSM mentors/mentoresses and saw this thread, thought the OP was terrific, so...it gets a bump.


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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 12:49:08 PM   
thetammyjo


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Wow, that was an intense experience I bet.

While I like being able to chat with you all on this board and the freedom to go to a munch or a convention if I so choose to do so, I sometimes think that I run into "pop BDSM" far more often than I'd like.

Now I realize I might contribute to this myself with my own words but really if someone isn't mature to figure out the difference between fiction or online and the face-to-face world then they are unlikely to be mature enough to be with me.

And yes, I have had men email me and meet me in public behave as some of the male slaves in my books or assume I liked the same things as my female characters or even that my personality would be like them. Oddly its usually the most negative female characters they cling to and make these assumptions about never the characters I wish I could as strong and as powerful.

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And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 12:55:51 PM   
LadyMedhbh


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I agree with Your essay CruelDomina.  I hold both My sub-husband (cuckold) and My sub lover in high esteem.  I enjoy their company as well as Dominating them. 

Also, I train certain submales as slaves... even with them it is important to Me to have some sort of relationship.  I won't even bother training a sub if he cannot grasp the concept that it is a power exchange and that he is willingly giving up his power to control his life while he is in session with Me.  The males who send Me one line messages and that ones that want to give their freedom to Me to live in a cage are immediately deleted by Me.  I want to train strong males that have a deep desire to serve a Woman, not males that want to lay sniveling at My feet.

Thank you again for your insightful views!  Brava!



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- Medhbh

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 3:11:23 PM   
alex311


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quote:

ORIGINAL: yeehaw

I think a dichotomy has evolved in the BDSM community between extreme fantasy that can never become real and the reality of BDSM and D/s which can never become the stuff of fantasy. Do you have children, a career, a ton of friends you don't relate to in a sexual way? Then you know what I mean.


My initial reaction to most dominant women's profiles is "I find aspects of the dominant female personality very attractive.  I'm not going to commit to submitting to you, or even "coming out" to you in terms of the depth of my potential submissiveness until there's a considerable level of attraction, friendship and trust.  Just like in a vanilla dating scenario, the likelihood of ending up with no relationship, or friendship only, is ninety percent or better.  But I'd like to meet you in a vanilla setting, not as domme and sub, but as two people, and see if there's any chemistry at all."

To me, this seems to be pretty much the attitude that both parties take in all vanilla and real-life D/s "first encounters," but on-line, such realism seems rare among dominants' profiles and nearly nonexistent among subs' profiles.  Some of the more explicit profiles from dominant women are titillating to read, but kind of creep me out from the "too much information" standpoint...I haven't even met you yet, I don't know what you look like, I don't know what you do for a living, I don't know what kind of music you listen to...but I know all the intimate details of your preferred sex life?  Why would you want to share that?  And of course the sub male profiles are an order of magnitude more explicit.  I assume in the subs' case its an attempt to stand out among the thousands of others in the competition for a dominant, and that in the dommes' case it's an attempt to weed out the vanilla and the clueless, but in both cases I have to wonder whether it scares away the more discreet (but perhaps more sincere) potential partners who aren't comfortable advertising their most twisted fantasies to a relative stranger.  I think that unrealistic expectations of instant intimacy created by explicit on-line profiles is a considerable contributor to the no-shows and flake-outs that seem to happen so often.

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 5:03:57 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CruelDomina
Many submissive males, especially those online, seem to believe that all female Dominants are looking for a compliant, powerless submissive who will prostrate themselves 24 hours a day. These men mistakenly feel that the only way women will be interested in accepting them, as their submissive, is if they show their submission constantly and strongly. After all, a Domme seeks a partner who will never speak unless spoken to, never show his intellect, never look her in the eyes, and never, never, never wants to be treated as her equal. Right?

Wrong.

Of course, I can’t speak for every female Dominant - after all, there are those few who long to have a submissive who follows the example of my friendly internet suitor….but, for the most part, Dommes seek a partner who knows when to be a ‘submissive’ and when to be a ‘companion.’

Part of the problem many new (and some seasoned) male submissives experience is too much fantasy in their lives - mainly the S/m themed advertisements, the badly made domination films, and magazines that show vicious women manhandling their compliant and appreciative submissive males. For many men, especially those who have never had a chance to venture out into BDSM society or clubs, these images are the real thing. After all, the media doesn't lie, do they?

The reality is something completely different. And it is a reality that most male submissives either didn’t know existed - and are happy to discover - or reject automatically because the danger of the fantasy is more appealing than following the rules.

Gentlemen….I have news for you. Listen up, because what I am going to say will change your life….and hopefully your tactics!

A good Domme wants……an equal partner. A man who is confident, intelligent, caring, patient, has a good sense of humor, appreciates his partner, and realizes that a Domme/sub relationship is a 50/50 prospect. That is not to say that the power exchange doesn’t swing in the Dominant’s direction - just that, when you get down to it, the Dominant cannot take unless the submissive gives…and for that to occur, the underlying relationship must be equivalent.

Sort of sounds like most relationships to you? It should. Deep down, most relationships - straight, gay, BDSM - are emotionally and socially pretty much the same. It is merely our means of sexual gratification that differ.

Dommes are human, too. We require stimulating conversation. We enjoy a good challenge. We welcome genuine emotion and intelligence. In other words, we want a real person. On the few occasions that I have replied to one of my sniveling IM’s, and told men this, they seem completely confused.

Here is a sample of my “dream” IM from a submissive male:

<<<< “Good Evening, Mistress How are you this lovely evening? Are you interested in discussing the world global warming effects over the Arctic?” >>>>

:) Ok…not quite…..but you get the point.

Intelligence is sexy. A ‘worthy opponent’ is a turn on. A submissive who is fun, witty, bold, a wonderful companion, and who dares to look you in the eye and ask questions is a worthy partner. Confidence, bearing, and the knowledge of WHEN to act submissive is equally important.

Having said this, I’m going to tell you in depth what most Dommes are looking for….

Intelligence

BDSM partnerships aren’t all play, play, play! A Domme wants a partner with whom she can carry on an intelligent conversation. Have you ever heard the saying ‘the sexiest organ is the brain?’ It’s true! You don’t have to be a Rhodes scholar, but being able to discuss something other than cbt is a huge plus!

It takes intelligence to be a submissive. Submissives need to know the intricacies of both submission and Dominance just as well as Dominants do. After all - how else would a sub know if the Dominant is doing something incorrectly? Also, having a submissive who is intellectually as well as physically stimulating helps to keep partnerships intense, fresh, and interesting. :)

A submissive who takes the initiative to continue learning about BDSM on their own time is also highly prized. BDSM is ever evolving - and a submissive who takes the time to stay current is not only an asset to his Mistress, but also to other submissives, who may look up to him as a Mentor.

Honesty

Nothing kills a relationship - any kind of relationship - faster than dishonesty. Be honest about your expectations, desires, needs, and wants. Also, be completely honest about partnership, family commitments, etc. Some men avoid honesty, fearing that it will ‘ruin their chances’ of finding a partner, especially if they have family obligations. But it is far better to be upfront than to be deceitful.

Some subs are dishonest about their play likes and dislikes in the scene. They worry that if they are not willing to do ‘anything,’ they will be perceived as ‘difficult’ or ‘topping from the bottom.’ As a Domme, I immediately disregard emails from submissives that state that they will do ‘anything’ or that they have no limits. Everyone has limits, likes, and dislikes, and one should be comfortable stating them, especially in a close partnership. A good Domme will appreciate your honesty. Besides…it gives you both something to work up to, right?

Self Confidence

There are very few Dommes I have met who want a ‘doormat’ - a submissive who lives only to please, cannot think for himself, and gains his self-confidence ONLY from serving. Most female Dommes want a male submissive who is able to ‘stand tall’ even when he is kneeling - somebody who is confident about his position as a submissive and realizes that it makes him wanted and admired. Gentlemen - self-confidence is SEXY!

A self-confident submissive is a delight to withhold. He is sure of his value, comfortable of his worth, and displays his self-confidence with quiet pride, but never arrogance. He knows that when he makes mistakes, he will benefit from them by learning from them. His posture is straight, his physical positions are held comfortably, and his face is serene but focused. A self-confidant submissive has about him his own aura of control - and this adds not only to his worth, but also his Dominant’s pride.

Responsibility

Submission is a position of responsibility! Very often, submissives have chores and rules assigned to them - and it is expected that the submissive be responsible and follow them. Submissives who do not show responsibility do not retain their partners for long!

Responsibility extends far beyond completing chores - being on time when meeting your

Dominant, knowing how to care for your Dominant without constantly being reminded, being prepared for play sessions, taking responsibility for packing, unpacking, and cleaning toys when necessary….the list goes on.

Responsibility also extends to your life beyond submission - your career, your family, and other aspects of existence, as we know it. A sub’s life should be full and varied - not based only on serving - and a sub MUST recognize when their real-life responsibilities take precedence over their BDSM lives. Family, work, military duty, and previously scheduled personal events (such as weddings, vacations, etc.) must come first.

Very often, new submissives - who fear losing or upsetting a Dominant partner - will place serving before his real life obligations. A GOOD Domme will encourage a sub to remember his priorities and will work with him to find a schedule that accommodates both partners (remember our 50/50 lesson from earlier?). Any Dominant who insists that NOTHING come before her is NOT a Dominant worth having!

And yes….you have my permission to repeat that. <grin>

Dependability

Speaking of submissive responsibilities…..another trait that is very important - especially to Female Dommes - is dependability. I cannot tell you how many times I, have been disappointed by a sub’s failure to fulfill an assignment, or how many times I, and other Dommes I know, have agreed to meet with a submissive, only to have him either show up extremely late, or not show up at all! Being dependable is important!

Of course, life happens…traffic jams, unexpected problems at home…last minute assignments at work…..and a good submissive will immediately contact a potential Domme and let her know of any delays or the need to renegotiate the time schedule of an assignment. It is far better to offer an honest explanation, and beg for leniency! <grin>

Caring

You don’t have to cry at Hallmark commercials…but having a sense of genuine caring and compassion is important. Your sense of caring should go beyond just your Domme…..empathy toward your fellow submissives and brothers and sisters in BDSM is very important.

It is also very important that you have a sense of caring about yourself. No Domme wants a pitiful person who endlessly knocks himself down. When you care about yourself, you are much more capable of caring about others. Caring is one of the bases of human relationships, whether that relationship be BDSM or vanilla. You don’t have to be ‘Mr. Merry Sunshine’ 24 hours a day - everyone is entitled to their down times - but being upbeat, pleasant, and caring toward yourself not only adds years to your life - it helps you find a partner a lot faster.

A Sense of Humor

BDSM is a wonderful thing…and like all wonderful things, it can go absolutely, completely wrong! So having a good sense of humor is very important. Sure - BDSM can be really serious stuff - but it should also be FUN. If we don’t laugh at it, and during it, every now and then, we become quite boring!

Some of the best BDSM relationships I have seen are the ones where partners share humor between each other. There is nothing wrong with a Domme and sub knowing when to kid and gently push each other’s buttons - a bit of mischief adds to the spice of the relationship - and gives Dommes a reason to break out the paddles! <evil grin>

Of course, there is a time and place for humor…and a well trained submissive will know the difference. But again…FUN is the key!

Creativity

When your Domme asks you to do something special for her, creativity counts. Male submissives who are able to show their affection and gratitude in a creative manner are greatly prized! Creativity may also extend into sceneing - helping a Domme script new adventures and helping to set the scene.

Creativity is the one part of submission that sets most submissives apart…..most submissive will run a bath for their Mistress…it is the ‘creative’ sub who dims the lights, places out scented candles, and provides himself as a side table on which to place her drink and book while she relaxes in the tub. :)

Manners

The art of being a Gentleman has not died. Male submissives who follow the basic rules of societal etiquette are greatly prized! Even in this day and age, a woman appreciates having a man open a door for her…and A Domme is no exception.

Manners are the basis of the portion of the BDSM community known as the ‘Old Guard,’ where Emily Post would feel right at home, and military protocols rule. Of course, you don’t have to be one of the few and the proud to have manners….just remember what Mom taught you, and you should be able to impress not only your Domme, but also everyone else observing you while in service.

An Adventurous Streak

As stated earlier, everyone has their limits, but the submissive who is willing to be adventurous and try something new, stretching his limits, is a wondrous thing. A submissive who is willing to take that one extra stroke to experience the sensations that occur just past his threshold, or the submissive who will try something totally outrageous for the thrill of it, will not only discover something new within himself, but will also be a delight to his Dominant. After all, Dominants’ enjoy pushing limits and seeing just how much a submissive can endure…..

Common Sense

They say that ‘common sense’ isn’t all that common….and, unfortunately, among some male submissives, that saying is true.

Common sense seems like a trivial thing - but it isn’t. Common sense is very important and prized by many Dommes. For example….

Would you send a sexually explicit, practically pornographic description of your mating habits to a woman on a vanilla dating site? Would you include a picture of your little one-eyed friend? Ahhh….No. So……why would you send a letter like that to a Domme?

Good Grooming Habits

You’d think I wouldn’t have to extol the virtues of soap and water, BUT………

Dommes want a partner they would be proud to ‘show off’ in public. Cleanliness and neatness count! Don’t greet your Domme at the local Munch in your best WWF T-shirt….show her you care by dressing for her. A tux isn’t necessary - but a clean, pressed shirt and pants that don’t have worn out knees are nice.

A submissive is a ‘representative’ of a Dominant…and the appearance of the submissive reflects upon the Dominant. Always present yourself looking your best, whether it be your first meeting or your 101st. After all, you want other Dommes to look at you and envy your Mistress, Right?


The REAL you!

Be yourself. This is the simplest advice that most male submissives forget to follow….and the one thing almost every female Domme is seeking…..the REAL you. Don’t try too hard to be something you are not….a Domme will see through this. Yes, you should make a good first impression, but always try to relax and let your true self shine through, because THIS is the person a Domme wants to meet. Have faith in yourself….and the rest will all work out.
AMEN!!!
Thanks cruel domina.     I hope all the men read this.   M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to CruelDomina)
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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 5:19:17 PM   
MistressSassy66


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LOL...for a minute I thought that was Me...Being from Maine also.
I too have encountered all types.

Just have to shrug and shake your head.And hope the next one is better.

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http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 8:01:48 PM   
cloudboy


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Basically, I think malesubs should treat Femdoms like they would anyone else in the beginning. The first goal is to establish a rapport and to pay attention. Only with some kind of natural toe-hold can a relationship begin to develop.

My first pitch is always a friendly, inquisitive introduction that reveals a little bit about myself and probes some specific topic or area in the prospective FEMDOM's life. I always start very, very small.

With this method, I've never had a bad experience and I've learned a great deal about others.

Luck and chemistry are just so, so important --- and neither one can be controlled or lined up through matching profiles or seeking what looks good from a distance. Just like jumping into a pool, you can only tell the water's temperature by sticking your toe in.

(in reply to CruelDomina)
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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/2/2006 9:19:20 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
Basically, I think malesubs should treat Femdoms like they would anyone else in the beginning. The first goal is to establish a rapport and to pay attention. Only with some kind of natural toe-hold can a relationship begin to develop.

My first pitch is always a friendly, inquisitive introduction that reveals a little bit about myself and probes some specific topic or area in the prospective FEMDOM's life
Sounds like a perfectly good approach from a man approaching a woman, which is essentially what it is.
Unfortunately the boys who need to read this most are at the tribute thread bitching instead of learning how to approach lifestyle women in a way that might actually lead to a relationship with one.   M

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RE: A Primer for male submissives - 5/3/2006 12:30:27 PM   
hotvisitor


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how right you are

(in reply to CruelDomina)
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