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marieToo -> RE: being married... (1/28/2007 5:48:23 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cjenny
marie, this is why i am upset. lol its all color coded because i had to use notebook. you are dressed in red, i am in black and SimplyMichael got the green outfit. this took forever so it had better be in order!! you say youre not down on divorce..yet..you sure came across that way in more than one post. you said you dont see it in black/white yet you stated the same things several times.
marieToo:
If you get divorced, you break a vow. You betray a promise to stay with someone for better or worse.
Breaking a vow is breaking a vow.
quote: post 123
ORIGINAL: cjenny
Okay MarieToo.. I admit to being a bit lost here. Are you saying that once married that the marriage should hold no matter what?
Thats exactly what the vows state. No matter what. Sickness and health, for better or worse..until death do us part. Yes, that includes "no matter what".
SimplyMichael post 146
To whomever,
Don't whine about not wanting to break a vow, it was for "better OR WORSE"...that didn't just mean money, it meant if the sex sucked or she didn't that you would STILL honor the vow.
If you are going to get sanctimonious, at least find some frigging high ground because from where you are at we can't hear you over the gurgling of the bullshit you are standing in.
quote:
If the parties agree the marriage is not working are vows still broken? Vows to whom??
Vows to each other are broken, yes. You break your marriage vows.
quote:
Bob & Mary get divorced after 20 years of a bad marriage, they both agree to it. Did just one break the vows? Both?
Both broke their vows.
I was trying to make a point which I apparently didnt do very well.
Cheating is breaking a vow to be fidel to your spouse.
Divorce is breaking a vow to stay in your marriage no matter what the problems are.
I was trying to draw an analogy that cheating and divorcing are both examples of breaking a vow.
I am divorced, btw. Im not down on divorce, Im not down on breaking vows. Im down on making them in the first place.
Im not down on hanging cheaters, or hanging the spouses of cheaters, or hanging the other man/woman.
My point is about priorities.
To some people its a greater sin to break the fidelity vow than to break the 'till death do us part vow'.
To others, divorce is unthinkable but cheating is forgiveable.
For example: I know a couple whose marriage actually improved after an affair, because it made them both take a long hard look a their marriage and focus on the problems and fix them. Its a different account for everyone. I dont think its black and white.
marieToo post #153
quote:
ORIGINAL: cjenny
It just seems so obvious to me. If cheating is going to be involved then you need to un-involve from the marriage. Not every marriage can or should be saved but stepping out should not be an option either. Not til those final papers are filed, then do what you want with whom you want. Yeah yeah it is *gasp, breaking a vow to divorce* but I don't consider that a moral sin. Fucking someone outside of your marriage however is to me, a moral sin.
OMG I have a moral. Sigh. It was bound to happen eventually eh. /end quote
marieToo
You really do need to read more slowly in a less angry state.
marie, I wasn't angry at that point lol. i think if you read carefully you will see where you emphatically state that divorce is on par with cheating in terms of vow breaking.
enough of this, i wont be continuing this thread. i wanted to clarify why you upset me on your last post.
sorry for the length and lack o punctuation. oh jeez i hope i copied all of this correctly!
What i said was that each was and is a breaking of a vow.
Then I went on to say that the importance of those vows will vary from person to person.
In other words....For some people divorce is a greater sin than cheating.
I do not say anyone should not get divorced. I do not say anyone should take abuse. I do not blame and hate cheaters anymore than I blame and hate the other spouse who couldnt keep the cheater happy. My point was there are many forms of betrayal and which ones forgivable or unforgiveable will vary from person to person.
I dont advocate cheating anymore than I advocate the spouse who ignores/neglects the one who is finding comfort in someone else's arms.
Its never about a case of "I was perfect and my spouse was the one who was wrong". Thats simply a crock of shit that we feed ourselves in order to soothe our own egos. We all fuck up. Its that simple. At the very least even an abused person is responsible for choosing an abusive spouse.
I know people dont want to hear this, But theres no way that one is entirely responsible for the rise and fall of a relationship and the other is standing on high ground as flawless.
As far as the breaking of vows...Let me try to reword it....
I am divorced.
That means I broke my marriage vow.
Thats a neutral statement. Its not negative or positive, its just fact. I took a vow to stay for better or worse and I broke that vow.
Someone who cheats took a vow to be faithful, they cheated. That means they broke a vow.
The man or woman who neglects and ignores their spouse's needs broke a vow. They broke the vow to love and cherish.
There are so many forms of betrayal, who is to say which one ranks higher than another except those involved?
Let me give you an example. When I was married, my then husband took a blowjob at my cousins bachelor party. To me, this was not an unforgivable sin. It hurt me, but I got past it, it was forgiveable as far as I was concerned.
He also once shared my most personal private feelings about something that I asked him not to, with our friends. To me that was more of a betrayal that did damage, than him touching another girl with his dick.
To someone else, the breach of confidentiality would be easily forgiveable but the blowjob wouldn't.
Thus my statement....breaking a vow is breaking a vow.
One is not better or worse or more forgivable except to the people involved and where their particular moral priorities fall.
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