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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:04:45 PM   
MaryT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

Yep, and in this case, the poster is unhappy that things are not working out.  Exploring why they might not be working out is probably more productive than just agreeing that the dom is a wuss (the crux of the OP) and moving on to the next thread.

MaryT



You are just full of generalizations, aren't you Mary?  i don't think the OP mean that at all.  She was wondering why he wasn't punishing her.  Just how did you conclude the crux of the OP is that her dom is a wuss? 


Well, let me help you out with a quote:

"Ok well how can a Dom claim to be a strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced ..."

MaryT



(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:10:58 PM   
SirDaniel


Posts: 93
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Las Vegas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

Yep, and in this case, the poster is unhappy that things are not working out.  Exploring why they might not be working out is probably more productive than just agreeing that the dom is a wuss (the crux of the OP) and moving on to the next thread.

MaryT



You are just full of generalizations, aren't you Mary?  i don't think the OP mean that at all.  She was wondering why he wasn't punishing her.  Just how did you conclude the crux of the OP is that her dom is a wuss? 


Well, let me help you out with a quote:

"Ok well how can a Dom claim to be a strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced ..."

MaryT





If you are going to quote, at least quote correctly. Whatshe was really said  "if a dom  doesn't follow  through with  punishments  does it mean a lack of interest in the  sub ? "



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quote:

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Profile   Post #: 42
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:16:48 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline 		You know Mary, it is really a waste of my time to bother responding to you because of just about any poster i have seen on this site, you make the least sense to me of all....in any of your posts.  But let me try this again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

Why, because that's the way you do it...or expect it should be done? 


How about because the OP is unhappy that it's not happening the way she wants, so maybe a change of expectation is better than expecting to change someone else.
 
The OP was asking why it is.  People come on here all the time saying their doms are doing such and such...some ask why that might be....and others ask what they can do about it....etc.  i don't think they come on here expecting to change their doms.
 
And why should she change her expectations?  If she finds that he's not the one for her, then she can leave.  She's never going to be able to change him if he just flat out doesn't want to do something.  That doesn't mean she should change her expectations, unless that is a decision she eventually makes. 

You think she's demanding her dom to punish her? 


She is on this board.
 
Now what sense does that make Mary?  She is on this board so she's demanding her dom to punish her?  i really fail to see any logic there.


quote:

How do you know it wasn't something agreed upon at the beginning of the relationship and now he has fallen short on that? 


And even if that is true, how does that change the fact that she is demanding punishment?

She seems to be a person who needs some type of punishment in her relationship.  i needed that too but i never demanded it of my partner.  Either he willingly gave it or i felt he wasn't the partner for me.  How is she demanding punishment?  By saying she has a need that is not being fulfilled?  So now is that what every sub means when she comes on and talks about something she finds lacking in her relationship....she is making a demand it be there?

 
quote:

It didn't sound like she was demanding anything to me.  It sounded like this was something expected in the relationship and now isn't happening.


So she is demanding that he keep his end of the bargain then ... is that what you mean?

You really have a thing with this demanding think, don't ya?  She is not demanding anything.  She is asking what it means.  She is indicating that she wants punishment as part of the relationship.  She has no right to look for a need to be fulfilled in a relationship without it seeming as if she's demanding something?
quote:




Not in the least and I don't have to "read" anything into it.  All I had to do was read her posts and her questioning of how he defined himself based on how he failed to meet her expectations regarding punishment.  It's not brain surgery.

You're right, it sure is not brain surgery!  So...he failed to meet her expectations....and there's things she can do about that.  But referring to her as demanding because she has unfulfilled needs, and saying that she was referring to her dom as a wuss (because that is how you construed the OP)....is just so illogical, i can't even find the words for it.  Again, i really don't have a lot of time to respond to posts that just make no sense.  Sorry.
 
DG





(in reply to MaryT)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:20:21 PM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDaniel

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

Yep, and in this case, the poster is unhappy that things are not working out.  Exploring why they might not be working out is probably more productive than just agreeing that the dom is a wuss (the crux of the OP) and moving on to the next thread.

MaryT



You are just full of generalizations, aren't you Mary?  i don't think the OP mean that at all.  She was wondering why he wasn't punishing her.  Just how did you conclude the crux of the OP is that her dom is a wuss? 


Well, let me help you out with a quote:

"Ok well how can a Dom claim to be a strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced ..."

MaryT





If you are going to quote, at least quote correctly. Whatshe was really said  "if a dom  doesn't follow  through with  punishments  does it mean a lack of interest in the  sub ? "




Here was the quote she is referring to


quote:

Ok  well how  can a Dom claim  to  be a  strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced,


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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:21:47 PM   
MaryT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDaniel
If you are going to quote, at least quote correctly. Whatshe was really said  "if a dom  doesn't follow  through with  punishments  does it mean a lack of interest in the  sub ? "


Danny boy, I quoted the OP in her post, #8 in this thread, the one to which you take exception.  I quoted correctly.  In a previous post, I also quoted her post #21 in this thread, and I quoted correctly there too.  Those are the only posts made by the OP to which I responded. 

Before you decide to correct a fellow poster, you might want to make sure that your correction is correct.  Some of us are quite apt at citing.

MaryT

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:22:02 PM   
adaddysgirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
No....i was telling the OP that i had been in a similar situation and how that ended up going for me. i understood what she was going through.  i didn't barrage her with a bunch of  'well i just obey, hold up my end, am accountable and responsible because it's the right thing to do' crap.
 
Not once did i say 'why don't you just do this...blah, blah, blah'.  i never in any way implied she should do it the way i did.  As a matter of fact, i don't think she should act in any way other than possibly talking with her dom to get it straightened out (if she was ready for that). 
 
i think that's a tad different than what you were trying to say, no? 


Yes, it's quite different in that Julia never inferred that you were doing anything wrong by saying what you thought.  That's the only difference I see.

MaryT



This wasn't to julia Mary...it was to catize.
 
DG

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:25:29 PM   
MaryT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

<big snip of spaghetti>

But referring to her as demanding because she has unfulfilled needs, and saying that she was referring to her dom as a wuss (because that is how you construed the OP)....is just so illogical, i can't even find the words for it. 


It is possible that the nature and basics of logic escape you.

quote:

Again, i really don't have a lot of time to respond to posts that just make no sense.  Sorry.


Please do not apologize.  If you never again respond to a post of mine, I will not feel deprived in anyway.

MaryT

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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:30:11 PM   
MaryT


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
This wasn't to julia Mary...it was to catize.


There is no julia Mary here, and you responded to the three of us in the same way.  So I reiterate:

Yes, it's quite different in that Julia, Catize and Mary never inferred that you were doing anything wrong by saying what you thought.  That's the only difference I see.

MaryT

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:38:24 PM   
mixielicous


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From: Boston area, Massachusetts
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quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: mixielicous
...and on the physical front, well like stated above, He doesnt like to cause pain as punishment. mine is loving and caring.


Should this be presumed that if a dominant uses pain as punishment that he is not loving and caring?

DG



oh no no never. those were just the words He used to describe why it wasnt right for Him. of course everyone expresses differently.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:46:03 PM   
adaddysgirl


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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I stand by what I said, she asked why her dom was not punishing her, and I answered with some possibilities... if she did not want feedback of that nature then why ask? I am thinking she wanted real possibilities. Now you might not agree with my insights and think they are off base, and they may well be off base as I do not have all the information and I am not her dom.

When you start a post off with 'I am with you and Mary, this is the second post I have read today that seems to think that the job of a dominant is to enforce rules, why is this his job? I cannot imagine doing things that caused my dominant to punish me...But we do not have that sort of dynamic, discipline yes, punishment and enforcement... NO.'.....could that not imply that you have very little in common with the OP in the way you do things with Sinergy and how she does things with her partner?  So to continue on with 'here's what you sound like to me', comparing it with your standards is just rather useless, isn't it?  i mean, it's already clear that you cannot imagine punishment to enforce rules, so what did you think you could offer other than how to do things the way you and Sinergy do?


Yes, I did absolutely apply my own experiences to this situation, who else's can I apply?  I am only me, I only have my own experiences. I have only the insight that other doms have given me about how they feel and what they think when a sub disobeys, and in my experience in talking with several dominants about this issue (one of them being my Daddy, and another my former dominant) they have all been less than thrilled with challenging submissives that needed "enforcing" to submit. Now you may have spoken with many other different sort of doms, so you should add your insight, instead of picking mine apart. I think that might be more helpful.

But you cannot imagine how others get into the punishment thing.  Yes, i have spoken with different types of doms...many of them....and i realize that Daddy Doms and those into such dynamics as Domestic Discipline and Taken in Hand know exactly what i am talking about...and they expect the same things in a relationship that i do.  i don't care if you've talked with 6000 doms who don't get into the enforcement thing, you don't have to understand it, you don't have to like it, you don't have to do it....but you can at least respect that some do it that way...and leave it at that.
 
Sometimes i really wish i had a dom on this site so he could come on and say 'Yes, i spank DG's ass for not obeying....and that is my job....and that is what i expect'.  Then maybe others can see that there is a bunch of people out there who get into that....they don't need to do it another's way because that other doesn't understand it....and they are doing what makes them happy.


There is no reason for defensiveness here, there is no reason to get your back up. Someone asked a question, others replied to the question with their life experiences... I thought that was how it worked *scratches head too*

No, i'm not getting defensive.  Just annoyed by a bunch of people who claim they are so open minded yet come here and say 'i just don't understand how others do xyz'.  That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  (And yep, scratches head again.)

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Profile   Post #: 50
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:47:38 PM   
SirKenin


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From: Barrie, ON Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: justagirl2

Ok  well how  can a Dom claim  to  be a  strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced, and like stated above  punishments can be in any form  not just pain , whether the  Dom is loving and caring  or not  , doesn't mean  that  his rules that he sets  should  not be  enforced


I have not read the whole thread, so I have no idea whether this has been answered or not, but to be strict you have to follow through.  I might be "kind and compassionate" to my sub, but I do not tolerate shit.  I do not have to spank them to demonstrate this concept either.  There are a number of ways to discipline without ever laying a hand on them.  Even sitting them in a corner, at your feet or just plain ignoring them does wonders.

That is the problem with establishing lots of rules and I suspect many Dom/mes make the mistake, especially noobs but even experienced ones.  They make so many rules that now all of a sudden a sub becomes high maintenance.  If you make rules and expectations, you have to enforce them.  The more you make, the more you have to watch for and it is very easy to let some slide.  This is why I keep mine to a reasonably minimal level.  If a sub has to be micromanaged I am not interested.

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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:51:30 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl
This wasn't to julia Mary...it was to catize.


There is no julia Mary here,

The response you referenced was to catize.  Somehow you brought up julia's name in there.  It should have read 'This wasn't to julia, Mary (see the comma in there?)...it was to catize.'
 
DG


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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 9:56:27 PM   
adaddysgirl


Posts: 1093
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From: Syracuse, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaryT

Yep, and in this case, the poster is unhappy that things are not working out.  Exploring why they might not be working out is probably more productive than just agreeing that the dom is a wuss (the crux of the OP) and moving on to the next thread.

MaryT



You are just full of generalizations, aren't you Mary?  i don't think the OP mean that at all.  She was wondering why he wasn't punishing her.  Just how did you conclude the crux of the OP is that her dom is a wuss? 


Well, let me help you out with a quote:

"Ok well how can a Dom claim to be a strict Dom, if his rules are not enforced ..."

MaryT



So?  my dom who claimed he was strict and wasn't....i didn't consider him a wuss....i considered him not into the type of strictness i was into.  Does that imply he was a wuss?   Again, faulty logic.
 
DG

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 10:47:57 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		 
quote:

could that not imply that you have very little in common with the OP in the way you do things with Sinergy and how she does things with her partner?  So to continue on with 'here's what you sound like to me', comparing it with your standards is just rather useless, isn't it?  i mean, it's already clear that you cannot imagine punishment to enforce rules, so what did you think you could offer other than how to do things the way you and Sinergy do?


One more time, I posted my experience, I posted my thoughts on why a dominant may not be punishing his submissive, I will reiterate: If I was a dominant, and a sub was testing me, I may well decide to withdraw my dominance because she was not acting like she valued it anyways. Disobedience to most doms is very disrespectful, why give energy to someone that refuses to reflect it back to you? Now her dom may or may not be doing that, but that is ONE possibility. She can decide whether my words are useless, I really do not think it is up to you to decide, since it was not you my words were directed at.

You twisted my words, but that is ok, because my posts on this thread have nothing to do with you adaddysgirl. My posts were to give a view from a different perspective, one which you obviously do not appreciate, which is ok with me.


quote:

Sometimes i really wish i had a dom on this site so he could come on and say 'Yes, i spank DG's ass for not obeying....and that is my job....and that is what i expect'.  Then maybe others can see that there is a bunch of people out there who get into that....they don't need to do it another's way because that other doesn't understand it....and they are doing what makes them happy.


 
But this is not about your relationship, it is about the OP, and her dom's expectations, which obviously are not the same as hers are at this exact moment in time, and that is ok too. I have had false expectations of what I thought "should" be as a submissive, even in my present relationship. It has taken growth on my part to realize it was how he thinks it "should be". There is obviously a disconnect here for the OP, and only she can fix it.


quote:

No, i'm not getting defensive.  Just annoyed by a bunch of people who claim they are so open minded yet come here and say 'i just don't understand how others do xyz'.  That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  (And yep, scratches head again.)

 
You see me judging this person on her OP and other comments, and yes, I am slightly judging two things... and that is this entire "enforcement" word, I do not know what enforcement has to do with submission if it is consensual. It makes no sense to me. I also have a slight prejudice about going into a public forum and stating that a dom was in danger of losing his submissive's respect. It struck me wrong, and yes, I am basing that on my own relationship and the loyalty I have for my Daddy, and yes I am closed minded about that I suppose. There seems to be several things going wrong here in this situation, for one this submissive obviously feels the inability to talk to her dominant, otherwise she would not be asking others.


I still  read you as defensive, and you are reading me as putting my relationship model up as the one true way. Well if it makes both people happy and I tell them they are wrong, then I am being one true wayish. If people are not happy, and I point out why that maybe so, I am giving my perspective based on my experience... the OP is not completely happy, is she?

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/27/2007 10:49:48 PM >

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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 10:49:04 PM   
catize


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quote:

No....i was telling the OP that i had been in a similar situation and how that ended up going for me. i understood what she was going through.  i didn't barrage her with a bunch of  'well i just obey, hold up my end, am accountable and responsible because it's the right thing to do' crap.   


I suggest you might want to take a step back and consider what it is about this topic that makes it such a  hot-button for you. 
Why do you feel barraged?
Why do you feel so threatened by a different perspective?
And who decided what measurements are used for the 'crap detector'?


< Message edited by catize -- 1/27/2007 10:57:11 PM >

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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 11:14:10 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I will say these points:

If a person sets an expectation that is not followed through, there will be a loss of trust and respect.

However, I know more than a few subs who create expectations in their heads which have absolutely no business being there.

I rarely punish, when I do, it's dirty work, nasty work, time spent NOT being happy, time spent being angsty, reworking training programs, doubting my decisions, doubting THEIR perspectives of themselves, and an all-over breakdown of what's really going on.

Punishments in the scene are given out like gumdrops and IMO they only lead to diabetic confused slaves and unhappy insecure masters.

Discussion, understanding of the problem and straightening out expectations can deal with 99% of any behavioral problem in a mature and responsible adult.

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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 11:51:52 PM   
BitaTruble


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Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		~FR~

quote:

if a dom  doesn't follow  through with  punishments  does it mean a lack of interest in the  sub ?


That's a distinct possiblity, but not the only one. If punishment is something that has been used successfully in the past and such as follow through stopped suddenly, there may be other issues of which the submissive is unaware. These could range from work related stress to family obligations, financial troubles to illness etc. etc.

If on the other hand, follow through was never part of the dynamic, then it could be that there is a lack of compatibility for the parties in question, the dominant might just not care for punishment, he might have a 'low boil' sort of mentality where it takes a 'lot' to get him into the punishment mode or any number of other factors.

If punishment is something that the submissive wants/desires as part of the dynamic, then it behooves them to take out the old ball gag and talk to their partner. Regardless of whether or not the dominant is following through on punishments, I can almost guarantee that they aren't a mind reader. The dominant might care a great deal about the submissive, but be truly clueless that such a lack of follow through is causing issues. It may even be that the dominant is unaware that the submissive is doing things (or not as the case maybe) which would garner some sort of punishment.

Talks cheap.. you should try it.

Celeste



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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/27/2007 11:57:32 PM   
Emperor1956


Posts: 2370
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		"If A Dom doesn't follow through..."

I find if I don't follow through, my stroke is way off.  The strop doesn't land where I want it to, and the force of the blow is greatly diminished.  But if I keep my knees slightly bent, my shoulders square and my striking hand level with her backside, and follow through on the down stroke, the results are quite desirable.

wait...that's not what you meant at...   Never Mind.

E.

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"What's for breakfast? What do you say, Piglet?"
"I say, I wonder what's going to happen exciting today?"
Pooh nodded thoughtfully.
"It's the same thing," he said.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 12:42:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

Yes, i have spoken with different types of doms...many of them....and i realize that Daddy Doms and those into such dynamics as Domestic Discipline and Taken in Hand know exactly what i am talking about...and they expect the same things in a relationship that i do.  i don't care if you've talked with 6000 doms who don't get into the enforcement thing, you don't have to understand it, you don't have to like it, you don't have to do it....but you can at least respect that some do it that way...and leave it at that.

 
I just really focused on this part of your post.

I have been in a punishing Ds dynamic, you do not know my history as you have not been posting here when I first started posting myself. I was still healing from that relationship ending when I first started posting here.

Assuming that someone else has always been in the same type of relationship that they are presently in is a huge assumption. I understand punishment much more than you know. I did not intentionally test my former dominant. He made it clear just how "strict" he could be for even an unintentional infraction, much less intentional ones. I do not judge those who thrive in these dynamics, you are the one judging me, wrongly I might add.

I do not get punishing, true, I found it destructive for me, but I know some need that. I could never imagine bringing it on myself for a fact, but that is just MY experience, and other people have different ones, and theirs is as valid as mine.

Some doms love punishing subs, some do it for little or no reason I suppose. Some doms "get off" on enforcement. Yes I get that better than you could begin to understand, been there done that... I know the end of the movie. For me it was not a storybook ending, for others it will be.... to each their own, but it really has nothing to do with why this submissive is not getting the punishment she thinks she deserves.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to adaddysgirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 12:52:11 AM   
SirKenin


Posts: 2994
Joined: 10/31/2004
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Status: offline 		If you are going to create rules, there has to be discipline, or the threat thereof.  There just has to be, no matter what dynamic you have even if it is a parent/child dynamic.  Rules are completely useless if there is no follow through.  There also needs to be rewards for good behaviour.  It is a balance.  Without both of these you can get a bratty, disobedient charge on your hands.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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