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RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 8:15:12 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

The discipline, in whatever form it might exist, or the threat thereof is always present.

And that would include self-discipline, would it not?
My point, and I believe that of a few others here, is our primary motivation comes from within rather than the outside force of the dominant.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SirKenin)

Post #: 81

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 8:21:12 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

Yes, of course I can say that. Personally, I like a little CP, but in a scene, not as punishment. No, I can't speak for all the others and don't want to. There's nothing wrong with saying. who cares, etc., but again, just because someone doesn't add the ..."this is what I do in my relationship" disclaimer doesn't mean that they're trying to tell anyone what to do.

And, by the way, did I actually say there was anything wrong with CP? No, I simply stated that IT SEEMS TO ME that there are many doms fixated on CP. All I asked is what's wrong with leaving it for fun? Is that a problem for you?

< Message edited by bandit25 -- 1/28/2007 8:31:22 AM >

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 82

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 8:31:11 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

quote:

The discipline, in whatever form it might exist, or the threat thereof is always present.

And that would include self-discipline, would it not?
My point, and I believe that of a few others here, is our primary motivation comes from within rather than the outside force of the dominant.

And what about those of us who do lack self discipline in certain areas? i have freely admitted many times that i am externally motivated to obey. That could mean CP, corner time, writing lines, whatever....that was up to him. He saw what worked and used it....and it just happened to be CP.

So what's that mean? Is someone less of a sub because they are externally motivated?

i fully appreciate those that submit from within, but it just isn't me. And i fully appreciate those who don't.

If a sub is on the computer too much and her dom cuts her off from it for a period of time, but my dom spanks me for it...so what? Every dom 'enforces' in his own way.

And if a dom said to me 'i do not discipline in any way....i just expect you to obey'....then he would not be the dom for me. Or if a dom said 'i will sit and discuss things with you when you have f'd up and then ignore you'....he would not be the dom for me either.

So? What is the big deal? Why have so many had to use all the 'bratty' inferences just because someone does it a different way...or has a different need? That is really all i am trying to say.

DG

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 83

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 8:33:20 AM

adaddysgirl

Posts: 1093
Joined: 3/2/2004
From: Syracuse, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bandit25

Yes, of course I can say that. Personally, I like a little CP, but in a scene, not as punishment. No, I can't speak for all the others and don't want to. There's nothing wrong with saying. who cares, etc., but again, just because someone doesn't add the ..."this is what I do in my relationship" disclaimer doesn't mean that they're trying to tell anyone what to do.

And, by the way, did I actually say there was anything wrong with CP? No, I simply stated that IT SEEMS TO ME that there are many doms fixated on CP. All I asked is what's wrong with leaving it for fun? Is that a problem for you?

And all i'm saying is why just use it for fun? Is that a problem for you?

DG

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 84

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 8:35:09 AM

bandit25

Posts: 3029
Joined: 6/18/2005
Status: offline

It seems like all you really want to do is argue with everyone on this thread. Have at it!

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 85

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 9:18:46 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

To those who express perfection in their submission - I'll pay close attention as I could learn something from you.

If that was pointed at me, not only did I say there have been things I have overcome and grown from on this thread, my Dom did too, so there is all that perfection for ya....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 86

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 9:22:41 AM

obey1

Posts: 227
Joined: 11/26/2005
Status: offline

Greetings A/all,

This is a topic that has caught my attention. I have never posted before, but from time to time I lurk when I have some minutes to spare. One thing I have noticed is how well everyone plays the semantics game with the English language. In short, the acronym BDSM covers 4 seperate topics one or all of which can apply to any given situation. Mathematically then, there are 4x3x2x1 combinations, or 24 different combinations of BDSM. Something like an extended Zodiac. In basic personality tests, there can be something like 16 different personality styles when applied to leadership http://www.worleyid.com/psychometrics.html

When you combine those 16x24 styles you can literally come up with 384 different characters. That does not even include the allowance for the alternate personality in the relationship (the sub) who has their own 384 combinations to deal with. Combined together we reach 147,456 styles of interaction between two people practicing some form of BDSM together. Is that clear enough for everyone?

Let's start with the basic definition:

Source: WordNet (r) 1.7 strict
adj 1: (of rules) stringently enforced; "hard-and-fast rules" [syn:
hard-and-fast]
2: rigidly accurate; allowing no deviation from a standard;
"rigorous application of the law"; "a strict vegetarian"
[syn: rigorous]
3: incapable of compromise or flexibility [syn: rigid]
4: not indulgent; "strict parents" [syn: nonindulgent]
5: unsparing and uncompromising in discipline or judgment; "a
parent severe to the pitch of hostility"- H.G.Wells; "a
hefty six-footer with a rather severe mien"; "a strict
disciplinarian"; "a Spartan upbringing" [syn: severe, spartan]
6: severe and unremitting in making demands; "an exacting
instructor"; "a stern disciplinarian"; "strict standards"
[syn: stern, exacting]

There are a few definitions here that can be applied, but not all definitions apply in all situations.That is why on this particular web dictionary there are 6 definitions. Some may find more, and an unabridged dictionary could reveal possibly 10 or more definitions of the word. Anyone who reveals a hard limit could be said to be 'strict' about that hard limit. It is like predjudice. I could say that I am a black male, but what enters your mind when I say black male? My race and gender are 'facts', but it is usually predudice or stereotypes that define what you think I meant to say when I only give you my race and gender. Communication is key from the beginning, and throughout the relationship (or lack thereof).

< Message edited by obey1 -- 1/28/2007 9:39:11 AM >

(in reply to bandit25)

Post #: 87

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 9:35:01 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

To those who express perfection in their submission - I'll pay close attention as I could learn something from you.

If that was pointed at me, not only did I say there have been things I have overcome and grown from on this thread, my Dom did too, so there is all that perfection for ya....

It was a general comment inspired by a general theme I was seeing, from specific statements by people on this thread. Not at one person in particular. But I am living in bliss in my imperfect world, so I'll leave the perfection to you, thanks.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 88

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 9:50:15 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

Well, i don't suppose it has to make sense to you, does it? If it's not something you understand, can fathom, approve of, whatever term you want to use...then so be it. There are a lot of different lifestyle dynamics that wouldn't work for me. i feel no need to judge them. i wouldn't go on a gor forum and state 'i just don't get how you people get into this stuff' just because it is not a dynamic for me. The same with poly. As a matter of fact, i find both of those chosen lifestyles rather interesting....even though they are not something i would do. Not relating to the enforcement dynamic is your issue, not the OP's.

I guess you missed the post where I expressed that I had been in a punishing dynamic and used to discuss it on this board when I first joined. And please point me to where I ever said punishing a submissive in a dynamic is wrong? More straw men... I do not think it is wrong, I have never said it is wrong, and I never will say it is wrong.

quote:

Who stated the dom was in danger of losing his sub's respect? me?

Again, this thread is not about you, but kyra already pointed out that post where the OP stated this. Now I am allowed opinions about that also, you may not agree with that opinion, but that is ok, I do not need you to agree with me.

quote:

And there could be several things wrong here....i don't know that for sure. And yes, they most likely do need to talk to get this straightened out. But the OP did not come here and ask how she can be a better sub. She did not ask what she was doing wrong. She did not ask if she should suddenly agree to some other types of discipline so she can seem more obedient.

Are we going to go through every post you ever made to determine if you stayed within the parameters of the OP and the questions listed in the OP, and never deviated, even after the OP made further statements and clarified certain things? Are we going to start policing replies and make sure no one strays from the exact question at hand only in the opening post? And are you a psychic that can tell me what the opening poster came here for? You know for sure that she was not trying to better her relationship? Even if this was the case, I will repeat, I answered with what I saw as possibilities as to why her dom would quit punishing her. You do not have to like my views, I am not paid for your approval of my posts.

quote:

She could have just as easily came on here and said 'my dom said he would lecture me when i disobeyed or screwed up, but he is not following through on that and i wonder if he's lost interest in me'. That might have elicited totally different responses.....yet her point would have still been the same.

I do not know how many times I have gotten replies to my posts that I was less than appreciative over, points unrelated to my questions, etc. , but I do not control other people's input, and we do not choose the response we get, we just get them. Like I did not choose your responses to me on this thread, I have not asked you one damn question, and yet my posts have elicited quite a response from you... open public forum, you can post to me as long as you like.

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 1/28/2007 9:52:20 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 89

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 9:53:55 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

To those who express perfection in their submission - I'll pay close attention as I could learn something from you.

If that was pointed at me, not only did I say there have been things I have overcome and grown from on this thread, my Dom did too, so there is all that perfection for ya....

It was a general comment inspired by a general theme I was seeing, from specific statements by people on this thread. Not at one person in particular. But I am living in bliss in my imperfect world, so I'll leave the perfection to you, thanks.

Why thank you very much, more putting words into my posts that never existed, you are more perfect than I owned, you are psychic and can read my so-called perfect mind... wow.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 90

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:09:17 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

To those who express perfection in their submission - I'll pay close attention as I could learn something from you.

If that was pointed at me, not only did I say there have been things I have overcome and grown from on this thread, my Dom did too, so there is all that perfection for ya....

It was a general comment inspired by a general theme I was seeing, from specific statements by people on this thread. Not at one person in particular. But I am living in bliss in my imperfect world, so I'll leave the perfection to you, thanks.

Why thank you very much, more putting words into my posts that never existed, you are more perfect than I owned, you are psychic and can read my so-called perfect mind... wow.

"I have overcome and grown from on this thread, my Dom did too, so there is all that perfection for ya...."

I misunderstood that and thought you were relating to yourself. I apologize for the misunderstanding and for my rude retort. I suppose one snarky post deserves a snarky post in return, and that is what I got.

But I am still baffled by the results of this thread. The OP simply asked if non enforcement of rules meant non-caring, and it turned into something else entirely. Many people responded to her as though she were this disobediant brat who wanted attention from her dom by acting out. I just don't see this as being helpful to what she was asking about, and I find that unfortunate.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 91

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:12:36 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adaddysgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

So far I havn't lost too much respect yet , however it;s really starting to bug me ,

To me this sentence conveys a possibility that she will lose respect for him because of this and has already lost some respect.

Knight's kyra

Yes, that is a possibility but julia's statement was "I also have a slight prejudice about going into a public forum and stating that a dom was in danger of losing his submissive's respect."

What is there to be prejudiced about? The OP states the situation is starting to bug her and she hasn't lost too much respect yet.....and we don't know what is to follow. So? Lots of subs before this one have come on and said the same thing. i see others making the suggestion to talk with the dom about it. But what's the prejudice about? The prejudice just ends up fostering impartial responses instead of really looking at the what the OP is asking.

DG

You asked a question and I answered it. I am not sure why you then decided to take up the mantle of this argument with me and I do not appreciate it. I personally find way too little information from the OP to actually give what I consider any helpful advice other than "go talk to your dominant" or "examine your own expectations of what is going on to see if they are realistic".

Knight's kyra

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 1/28/2007 10:23:39 AM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to adaddysgirl)

Post #: 92

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:19:05 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

But I am still baffled by the results of this thread. The OP simply asked if non enforcement of rules meant non-caring, and it turned into something else entirely. Many people responded to her as though she were this disobediant brat who wanted attention from her dom by acting out. I just don't see this as being helpful to what she was asking about, and I find that unfortunate.

I agree it is unfortunate, but at the same time she is getting a wide range of ideas about her situation. Perhaps they will be meaningful for her, I see her name lurking, and I am hopeful one of us gave her something she can use... like going to her dom and asking HIM why he is not punishing her. I stated over and over and over again... mine was one possibility... not necessarily founded in her reality. It was what sprang to my mind from reading her first few posts... especially the one not about losing respect for her dom .. yet. Now I am not perfect in my impressions (pun there...smiles) I could be wrong, and that post sat badly with me. I responded after I read that, and it just gave me the impression of a submissive trying to get a dom to punish them, a "tame me" type. I might be wrong wrong wrong about that, but the respect thing was what sparked my reply the way it came off.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 93

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:29:37 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It was what sprang to my mind from reading her first few posts... especially the one not about losing respect for her dom .. yet.

Ah. And I found that comment to be perfectly appropriate. My Master and I have often discussed that if he did not pull me in when I strayed I would ultimately lose respect in his authority, and in him. That's a basic understanding between us, so seeing her say it just made sense to me. Just as he would lose respect for me if I continually disobeyed. I understand this because I submitted to a Dom years ago who stopped paying attention and I did lose respect for his authority, and our relationship suffered greatly for it. Ultimately I felt he simply didn't care anymore, and I would sometimes say things just to try to get a rise out of him as evidence that what I did really DID matter to him, since the things I was trying to do well certainly didn't. But I didn't. And we ended.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 94

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:31:12 AM

SirBlackdick

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/28/2006
Status: offline

does that offenad your sensabilities?

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 95

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:38:11 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

It is not the feeling of loss of respect that struck me "wrong", feelings are just feelings after all. It is posting about it on a public message board and not discussing it with her master. I have lots of feelings in life, I just express them differently. Perhaps I was unfair to her, who knows.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 96

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:45:50 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

I do not post comments/issues/concerns re: my Master publically either; I take them to him. I saw her comment about respect as a response to the thread above hers, and that she was "thinking out loud" while being honest with her feelings and perhaps confused at the same time. Like you, I would have handled my issue differently, but it seemed to me she was just coming here for help on how to understand and process what's going on.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 97

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 10:45:56 AM

cjenny

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

I too am somewhat mystified at the stuff being posted. Someone asking for advice or help usually is not asking to be mocked or purposefully misunderstood.
Her OP was pretty clear to me and 5 pages later it really isn't about the OP anymore.
Of course it is important to be honest but remember that the honesty that fits into your world may not fit into anothers.
It felt to me, that she was asking how to bring the balance back. It doesn't make someone a bratsub to need the discipline their Dom provides... or every sub/slave here would be painted by the same brush.
Advice can be given with a smile.
Advice can be given with kind intent.
Yeah it is easier for some to use sarcasm and nastiness, it is probably a lot more fun for them too.

There have been a lot of newbies commenting on the hostility of the boards.. it makes me wonder how long the newbies will bother trying.
It is very possible the OP is unsure of how to bring it up to her Dom, especially if she worries that there is a lack of interest in her. Um that to me is the point of being able to ask questions here.

*edited to add:
I posted on the boards not too long ago asking for help on something. It was not easy for me to ask but I did. If I hadn't been actually expecting some nastiness it would have hurt my feelings. Yes boohoo hurt my widdle feelings, but we post for support not bitchiness.

< Message edited by cjenny -- 1/28/2007 10:57:34 AM >

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to SirBlackdick)

Post #: 98

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 11:01:53 AM

justagirl2

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

OK wow , I have been sitting back reading lol or lurking , I did not mean to start such a huge agrument , it was a just a question ,   I want to thank everyone for their input , just for the record alot of you jumped the gun to think that I go around breaking all the rules on purpose just to be disobedient , that is not the case,   and  I was not saying that he is a wuss, that is far from the truth ,, when entering a relationship we all agree on certain things , now if I wasn't fullfilling my end of that agreement, then A Dom would certainly have the right to end the relationship or demand that I live up to my end (  I don't want this relationship to end )
If we as Doms and subs Didn't want our needs to fulfilled then none of us would be here amd we would still be happy in that vanilla relationships   and life,
But thats not the cases we are all here because of ours needs and enjoyment and they are all different and we all serve or want to be served differently,
NoBody is better then anyone else , I am far from perfect , and so is my Dom , as everyone else on this broad

As far as stating about the losing respect thing I agree, And I see why it may set some people off , for that I'm sorry , and should of   thought more about what i was about to say before posting such a remark, even if others agree and have found that it has or might happen,
I have alot of respect for my Dom And care for him alot , and every other area is great , but for some reason I feel this area is a need the isn't being meant at this time, hopfully my need for this will change in time so that I don't seem to require it . I f that makes me a weaker sub then others   then that is what I am , but I was under the understanding that this life was about growth and learning   , I still beleive that A Person can not claim to be strict if they don't enforce it when and if the time comes , in whatever means that is to that Person , IF they are not into being strict that is fine ,
What is comes down to is commincation , so I will go and talk to him ,
Once again I really do want to thank Everyone for their input and I am sorry to have started such an uproar

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 99

RE: If a Dom doesn't follow through - 1/28/2007 11:13:32 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

As far as stating about the losing respect thing I agree, And I see why it may set some people off , for that I'm sorry , and should of thought more about what i was about to say before posting such a remark, even if others agree and have found that it has or might happen,
I have alot of respect for my Dom And care for him alot , and every other area is great , but for some reason I feel this area is a need the isn't being meant at this time, hopfully my need for this will change in time so that I don't seem to require it . I f that makes me a weaker sub then others then that is what I am , but I was under the understanding that this life was about growth and learning , I still beleive that A Person can not claim to be strict if they don't enforce it when and if the time comes , in whatever means that is to that Person , IF they are not into being strict that is fine ,
What is comes down to is commincation , so I will go and talk to him ,
Once again I really do want to thank Everyone for their input and I am sorry to have started such an uproar

I am soooo glad you posted again, and it all about the learning. We argue all the time on this board, and it is not your fault

I have made mistakes, I will make more, and I do not think I am more submissive or better than you. Only your dominant can truly answer your question, and I hope you will ask him.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justagirl2)

Post #: 100

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